I am fairly new to dog showing and breeding. I entered my bitch in a champ show and she promtly came into season. I have just had her mated. The show will be about 2 weeks post mating. Do I go or not? I am thinking it would be safer to keep her at home but wondered what other breeders do?

Thanks

Sarah

Dog shows have the possibility of being a breeding ground for all sorts of illnesses. I would not subject a bitch of mine to the danger of contracting anything once mated. Sickness and "dire rear", kennel cough, parvo, in fact anything could be brewing in a dog that looks fine so it is advisable to keep her away from large gatherings of dogs while in pup (Or possibly in pup) at least untill you are sure and then if not you can return to showing. Only my opinion though!
Aileen 

i personally would not be taking mine to any shows, if you think shes in whelp its best for her not to attend JMO :)

thanks, I had thought it would be better not to take her. What about taking my other dog or would I be better just going to watch

Sarah

just by you attending you can still carry back any infections to your dog JMO if that was me id think about not attending just to be on the safe side :)

Really? I hadn't realised that would be a problem. What do people do about daily exercise then? We walk where other dogs go and do meet other dogs. Should I stop taking her for walks? i don't really wan to stop taking her out but obviously will do what is best for her and the possible pups.
Thanks
Sarah

well i stopped taking mine anywhere public but im lucky to have a large yard where they had exercise.

mine didnt got back into public place till pups where all jabbed and covered JMO i just didnt want to take any risks even down to shoes being removed a front door lol :)

If my bitches have been fit and well (they always are) and enjoyed showing (I wouldn't take them anyway if they didn't) then I've carried on showing them until they've lost their shape.  They have a mucous plug to protect pups against infection.  I've never had any problems but I've always sprayed me and them with Parvocide on returning home. 
In fact Betty won the BCC and BOB at Bath completely unexpectedly under a judge that we didn't know, when she was 5 weeks in whelp.

> Should I stop taking her for walks?

No, I wouldn't stop exercising her. It's important for her muscle tone that she keeps up with her daily walks, That way she should still be in peak condition when she whelps and will be more likely to have an easier time. But I'd be careful not to let her tear about with other dogs, especially as time goes by.

Personally I wouldn't show an in-whelp bitch, just to be on the safe side. They can do without having their immune systems challenged by strange bugs, IMHO anyway.

Good luck with her, and hopefully, her pups.

With pedigree cats, you are not allowed to show them whilst pregnant and then you can't show them for 14 weeks after giving birth - a very sensible rule in my opinion.

thanks for the replys. I think I will leave her at home while I spectate at the show. If I get changed when I get home I hope that will help reduce the chances of any infection.

Sarah

I mated my Bitch 3 weeks ago and she is still being shown and will be untill her shape goes,

The only show she missed was Bath which was the day after being mated, I would be more worried about what you will pick up at the local park then at a show, but each to there own

>I would be more worried about what you will pick up at the local park then at a show, but each to there own

I would carry on with her normal routine, and if that means taking her to a park she already goes to then I would think the risk of picking something up is far less likely than taking her to a place where there are dogs from all over the county/country bringing unknown germs along. The bitches immune system will already be used to the local germs.

I'm lucky that I have a local woodland/farm area where I can walk my dogs. There are very few other dogs around.

If you live in a city or close to usually going to parks i s not an option as the majority of dog owners by me never vacinate theyre dogs, therefore its much more common for puppies to pick up nasty diseases, whereas the majority of people who show theyre dogs taqke alot of time and care in making sure vaccinations are upto date and their dogs are in good phsyical condition.

But a dog can carry something even if it's vacinated!

Personally I wouldn't take them to shows, nor do I take them over the park.  I stick to road walking personally, as I stick to road walking when a bitch is in season.  After a bitch has whelped and wants to go for a walk again I will stick with road walking (and a wash down with hibiscrub when we return)

However I know someone who does things very differently and has been breeding alot longer then I have, has much more experiance and knows alot more.  I still disagree with her but each to their own.

I am getting really confused by the different opinions. I am still taking her on our normal walks as she would be unbearable without her exercise. I assume she will slow down as time goes on. I am not sure a road walk would be enough for her. I must admit I am not sure why a road walk would be ok if a trip to the park isn't as at least round here a lot of dogs walk to the park. She is vaccinated so I presume that will stop her getting parvo etc? and the puppies will get some immunity from her.
What are the diseases that will hurt the unborn pups?

Sarah

I must admit I've always let my bitches dictate the pace of their exercise because it's so vital for them, if they are indeed pregnant, to be in the peak of fitness for labour. A flabby, under-exercised bitch is much more likely to have whelping problems. I've found they naturally start to slow up around the 5 to 6 week mark, but are still enjoying free exercise and even a gentle canter the day before whelping.

And of course if they're not pregnant aftr all you still don't want them getting unfit!

hi dogmad1234 , nothing is cut and dry ...every1 has their own way of doing things ,go with what you feel is right , for me i walk my dogs everywhere till the last 2 weeks then stick to road walking and then the last week i dont walk them ,but i have a large back garden for them to play not that they do at 8weeks lol way to fat for that !! ...the worry is any kind of infection in the last 2weeks can make them so ill and then theres the worry for the pups !!

>I am getting really confused by the different opinions

The end line is there is no fast & hard rule of what you should and shouldn't do.  It's upto you.  If you want to show her till she loses shape then show her, if you want to keep her confined to the garden, then do that, if you want anything between the two, do that also. :-D  It's your choice what you do with your bitch. :)

I have my personal preferances, as do other people there's which differ.  If someone wants to take their dog to a show then so be it, I won't stop them, no-one can.

The reason I don't go over the park, well I don't run my dogs in the park, I run them over the fields where not only dogs go (most dogs driven there) but there are foxes, rabbits and many other wildlife aswell as LOTS of dogs.  Road walking means I can avoid other dogs, with free running animals you can't.  But thats my choice. :)  Therefore if anything was to happen I wont blame myself as much for that "what if" factor. :)

I agree that it has to come down to each individual persons thoughts on thsi. As I mentioned I am extremely lucky that my bitches can get their normal exercise without meeting any other dogs. I have lived in a town where the best place to walk was the local woods. There were many different animals there (deer, red squirrel, foxes) as well as a lot of local dogs. My bitches were still taken for their normal walk, so long as they wanted to. I felt that the benefits far outweighed the risks involved. However, my girls never left the area I lived in. I wouldn't want to risk the chance of infection. Infections and diseases can mutate in different areas of the country in different ways, and the bitches immune system might not be able to cope with it. JMHO. :-D

I find this interesting as Steve Dean (in A Vet's View) has talked about exercising bitches in whelp in last weeks Dog World. :-)

Just want to say although it is confusing me a bit I appreciate the different points of view. My brain seems to have turned to mush since Amber was mated. I have managed to give birth to and raise to adulthood 3 human children, I had a responsible job caring for other people and have had dogs for over 30 years so I ought to be able to raise a litter with my eyes closed? But I am sure I am worrying more about Amber and her unborn pups than I ever did about my own health.
And now I have joined this forum I am discovering new things to worry about each day. How do people cope?

Common sense is a major factor in anything to do with dogs.  I had a bitch here at the weekend to whelp for a friend who read so much on so many different sites and got herself so worried about what could go wrong that she missed being here with her bitch when it all went well.

> How do people cope?

You take a deep breath keep calm, be practical with your decisions and get on with it. 

Doesn't make it awful easy but it gives you some time to think :)

Good luck with your girl.

Joan

Hi, several years ago now, l took my dog to Bournmouth Ch. show, and after  10 days or so, he developed Kennel Cough. Unfortunately, l had a bitch who was in whelp at the time, and caught the infection off him. By the time that the 8 puppies were born, she had stopped coughing, but within 3 or 4 days l knew, by their breathing, that the puppies had got it. The Vet started them off with Synulox, but by the time that they were 3 weeks old, it had turned into pneumonia and they were getting worse by the day! By chance, on one of my visits to the Vets, ( l was going daily), l happened to see another Vet. He changed the medication to antibiotic injections and ALSO, penicillin injections. From then on, after a few days, the 2 that were left, started to slowly recover.

This period of my life was the most harrowing of experiences. To watch helplessly, as your puppies prop their little heads up on their mother, trying to get air into their lungs, gasping. To have to give them yourself, 2 injections twice daily. This in itself was not a problem, as l am used to giving injections, but after a few days, because the body mass was so small,  you run out of new sites to inject, and they became incredibly sore. Of course, even though they are screaming, you still have to give them even more pain. To watch, with tears streaming down your face, the worried look on your girls face as you, the one she trusts most in the whole wide world, inflicts more pain on her babies, making them cry.

After over 40 years of Showing and Judging, l vowed never to go to a Dog Show again, and l never have. I know that this was a bit OTT, but, by this time l had several "oldies", and wouldn't take the risk of bringing back K.C. again.

People who go to Shows, knowing that they have Kennel Cough on their premises, are in my opinion, below contempt. I think that when you had to pass a Vets inspection, before you were allowed into the Showground, was an excellent  idea.

Sorry for the rant, but Sarah's post brought it all flooding back.

People who go to Shows, knowing that they have Kennel Cough on their premises, are in my opinion, below contempt.

I'm sorry that you had a rough time and I agree.  But you're just as likely to bring it back from a Vet surgery. 

Most pet owners take their dog into the waiting room and surgery without knowing how infectious Kennel Cough is.  I have yet to see a waiting room sprayed - it's usually just the examination table that's given a cursory wipe over!  But we don't say that we're not taking a sick dog to a Vet incase we bring infection back to an in whelp bitch do we??  In fact many owners actually take a hopefully pregnant bitch to the Vet to be scanned!  Now that's something that I would NEVER do!  You stand more chance of picking up infection at a surgery (that's where owners take sick dogs!) than anywhere else.  It's like going to the doctor with an ingrowing toe nail and coming home with 'flu!! :) 

My idea is balance in everything. :)

Yes, BUT, when you fill in your application form for a Show, you sign to say that you have not had ANY INFECTIOUS  diseases on your premises, for a a given period of time, (6 weeks) l think, but l can't be certain as it has been over 10 years since l last filled in an application form.

As to the Vets, l quite agree, you are going into an environment where sick animals abound. In my own case, when a visit to the Vets is called for, l go to reception to let them know that we are there, then  wait in the car with my dog/bitch until it is our turn, then straight into the surgery. I must say that my Vets are very thorough in their cleaning methods.

>People who go to Shows, knowing that they have Kennel Cough on their premises, are in my opinion, below contempt.

At a show this year I saw two dogs that were in the ring before myself with dogs I was handling, clearly had KC.  That day we had taken to the show a bitch for a friend who couldn't go as she had 2 week old puppies.  On returning her bitch home she offer us to go into her workshop and see the pups on the CCTV camera (of course no-where near the pups at that age let alone coming in from a show.  I had to turn down her offer and advise her that I was in the hall with clearly two dogs with KC and that I would advise she washes the bitch down before letting her into the house.  I wasn't going to step on the driveway because if a week or two later we spoke and I found out her litter had KC I would never forgive myself.  I then came home, ignored my dogs as had a bitch who was pregnant atthe time and went striaght upstairs for a shower and change of clothing.

I had to do all this just because someone had their dogs with KC at a show :(

However it is true you  could pick it up anywhere, or any other virus for that matter :(  But we can't keep anything wrapped in cotton wool can we?

However it is true you  could pick it up anywhere, or any other virus for that matter

It's like saying that you won't go to a restaurant anymore because you bought 'flu home to an elderly member of the family - sad but there's always a risk.  I just make sure that I disinfect me and dogs if I think that I've been in contact with anything nasty.

I also make sure that my dogs have as good immune systems as I can, using minimum chemicals and drugs and feeding a natural diet. :)  I've never had any problems even when I've had infectious dogs in the grooming parlour and my dogs have been hanging in the window! :(  I remember having 2 standard poodles left and within 15 minutes they started the kennel cough gag!  I rang their owner who said that he'd taken them to the Vet the night before and he'd had injected antibiotics and said that it was OK for them to come and be trimmed the next day!!  I did spray parvocide everywhere, including over me!  But my dogs and the litter indoors were fine. :)

Having had a vet tell me what germs I could carry and take home on my clothes when I worked p/t at a cattery and having had kittens at home, I would keep a mated bitch away from as many new places and germs her immune system isn't used too.

I know a lot of my friends in dogs thought I was way OTT over my first litter, but from the time my bitch was mated I didn't go anywhere near other dogs.  This continued right up until the puppies had their vaccinations.  So no shows, no ringcraft and certainly no visitors in the first few weeks after whelping.  Although I did let a young friend of mine who helps me at shows come to see them at five weeks but she took her shoes off and washed her hands before being allowed anywhere near.  After all the planning that went into this litter I wasn't going to take any chances.  After all what is 4 months out of the ring compared to the health of the bitch and puppies.

> and certainly no visitors in the first few weeks after whelping.  Although I did let a young friend of mine who helps me at shows come to see them at five weeks

How on earth did you socialise the pups to people of all types?

Personally the socialisation aspect is too important, and the infection risks have to be taken to get a well reared (physically, mentally and socially)litter.

I always think it strange how we act with our bitches and litters./

I have yet to see any human Mum being confined to barracks and any baby not being allowed near the rest of germ ridden humanity until after the child has all it's primary vaccinations, and this with babies many of which will not have had the immune system benefits of colostrum, and even more likely those passed on during lactation, with many babies not breast fed at all or only briefly.

my litter consisted of 3 puppies of a toy breed so quite easy to transport about once first injections had been given.  It had taken me over a year and three attempts to get this litter which is why I was so protection I guess, but now at five months all three are the most friendliest, happy little dogs I have ever had.  Far more so than any I have bought in.  I just hope the judge at E of E show in July likes being kissed as that's what all the judges at ringcraft get! 

Each to their own I say but I know I would never have forgiven myself if something had happened that I could have prevented.

Some sections of our society do keep new mothers/babies away from the general population.  I know someone married to a indian (sikh) and for a few weeks (about six I think) after the birth of a new baby she is not supposed to leave the house.  After her third baby she managed to negogiate this down to just two weeks as she used to get so bored stuck at home by herself.  I would imagine that this tradition started in indian because of the risk of babies contracting diseases in those first few weeks. 

We show our dogs, we currently have 2 pregnant so we will not be showing them again untill their puppies leave us/Injected. Our other dogs might be shown when puppies are born as our bitches or pups will not at all be in contact with our other dogs untill taken of the puppies. We use the parvo-versiside and change clothes straight away if in contact with outside dogs.
We also have bought kennel cough back from shows twice this year, Both times they have passed onto our other dogs and our 7/8 puppy that we had not long bought home. This puppy was so poorly for a few weeks and having to be put on meds.
Everybody does have their own opinion, but do look and take in the other replys then decide.
You may be ok then you may not.
Hope everything goes well with your litter.

I mated one of my bitches earlier in the year and I decided not to go to any competitions with her or any of the other dogs - meant a few quid lost on already entered shows, but I considered that better than her getting an infection, or bringing possible infection back through the other dogs.  I think what you have to remember about shows of any sort, as opposed to your normal dog walking area, is that dogs are generally coming from much further afield and there are large numbers in a smaller area.  You also have to consider the stress factor of the shows and being in and around other dogs - to the bitch.  Whilst I am sure there are tons of people who take pregnant bitches to shows, and other dogs in the household, personally I don't see the point in risking it, the shows will wait, and they'll still be there when pups have all grown and gone to their new homes.