I've a littler of pups, mum has no interest in them now, they are 5 weeks old today.  We started weaning early, at 2 1/2 weeks as she would not feed them. Currently they are having 5 feeds in the daytime, the last being about 11pm, but they are awake around 2am for more food which is fine but then they won't settle, it's really only 2 of them that won't sleep, but they keep all the others awake and me! They are in their pen right outside my bedroom door, so it's very difficult to ignore them.  We have a barn that we are thinking of putting them into at night in their pen, with a space for toileting and a large dish of food to see them through the night, do you think they are too young for this?

Any advise would be gratefully received

I would never put young puppies outside overnight, even in spring. My last litter were the exact same only sleeping for a few hours through the night. I got to the stage, like most new parents, of just napping all through the day & night whenever the pups were sleeping. I must confess to being almost relieved when they left for their new homes :-)

It is very warm here I'm in the southwest of france, so they will not get cold...I'm struggleing as I have a baby of my own.  I know your probably thinking so why have a litter? Well it was not planned, we thought our garden was 100% french dog proof...but no, one still managed to get in and do the deed...

With hindsight it would have been better to abort the litter then. I hope you don't think I'm 'picking on' you but it is important for other 'incidental' breeders reading this to know that there are options other than bringing an unwanted litter into this world, with all the expense and hard work they entail - not to mention finding good homes for them.

Regardless of the weather I still would never personally leave a litter outside overnight as I would worry about them possibly being stolen, or one being hurt and I can't hear them cry.

I couldn't agree more, unfortuntely we were in the UK for 2 weeks and only realised she was pregnant when we returned by which time she was 7 weeks, so far too late to abort. It has been a very hard time for her and as you say very expensive with all the vet bills, we are lucky that we have got great homes for them all.
Thanks for your advise

at this age their little monsters :) my last pups were just the same 1 of them didnt like to sleep at night and would keep all the others awake so i know how you must be feeling ,mine have only just gone to their new homes to its very fresh in my mind !! ...at this age they would be ok to be put somwhere eles in your home mybe ? so u can get some sleep , i have mine in my living room (ooo the smell lol ) so im there all day and at night i go to bed ,i only get 5/6 hours sleep but it better then nothing ...good luck ..not be long now befor their off to their new homes and then you will miss them :) x

they are proper monsters, but so very lovely....it's very hard to explain, but there is really no where else for them to go, I live with my parents and so my bedroom is also my living room, it's on the ground floor right by the ouside door, so they can go out for wee's. The only other area in the house where they would be ok is in the untility room, but my babies room is right above it as with a lot of old french houses, there is no sound proofing and i'm sure all the noise would wake him up and then it would be even worse! so the barn is the only place I can think were they would be ok. It's not an open barn, it has walls and doors which are locked at night, so they would be as safe as houses in there and it is actually attached to the main house, so they would not be far away at all...?? what do you think?
I would love 5/6 hrs sleep, i'm propably getting about 3 at the moment and no chance to kip in the day as I have to look after my baby, all the pups and my 2 rotties!

Hi Troubled,
(great name)

Ok, welcome to the world of puppies as much as they are a joy, hard work and sleepless nights they certainly bring too. Your not the first to talk of moving your puppies outside due to them being noisy and too boisterous, but you need to weigh up the positives and negatives to this.

The benefits of home rearing are that the puppies end up much more confident and socialised they get used to all household noises from washing machines - the tv, socialised better with adults and children in the house (if any) and other pets (if any) they tend to be cleaner and fresher and more likely to be partially toilet trained as we all like to keep our homes clean.

The negatives of being in the barn are that they are more likely to be left to their own amusement, not being socialised as well, not getting the chance to do early toilet training, giving the perception and suggestion of being bred not as family pets and often just for money, they are not with the family but seperate from the house this just doesn't give the same impression.  Often with large breeds or from a well respected breeder of fine lines this can be excused but on the whole it does send out the wrong signals.

The place they are situated by your bedroom may well be restricting enough stimuli and exercise that is needed. By now my pups are generally beginning to explore the outside world available to come and go from puppy room to garden as they please, running, playing and having a jolly good time coming in to sleep when they are ready. Getting plenty of human attention aswell to teach them different ways of playing with their siblings and myself and other family members. If your pups are restricted to a pen they will get noiser and more vocal as they are not being stimulated enough.

My routine is play on and off all day until they tire then at 10pm the lights go out in the puppy room, newspaper is put down and the pups all just toddle off to bed, toys are removed and they settled down for the night, yes they get up to toilet and perhaps have a little chase around but generally they come to realise that night time is sleep time as there is no stimuli there for them and they have had plenty of exercise during the day. I don't approach the puppy area until 5-6am at this age and then after cleaning and opening the doors up to the garden again the toys are back and the fun begins again.

Well done in finding homes so quickly for an unplanned litter at least that is one less thing to worry about, I would keep them indoors, (so many more benefits) perhaps change the area they are playing in for easy garden access, puppies are noisy and yappy but they remind yourself it is because they are happy enjoying the world and all they can explore it's all part and parcel of breeding and you've only got 3 weeks left. :-)

P.S. Took so long to write you have since posted to say your downstairs bedroom opens up onto the outside world, they are fine where they are, it is better for them to have outside access.

Hi Carrington,

They are outside all day long playing and my plan was to have a crate in place of the pen outside my room where they can sleep in the daytime and just to be in barn at night time.  I do realise the importance of stimuli, they are so used to the vacume now, i'm must clean up 3 times a day!

There are 4 adults in the house me, my hubby and my parents so they mingle with us all, plus my baby who loves them, my 2 dogs one of whom is mum (not that you would know, she is bl**dy rubbish!) and not forgetting the cat! so there is plenty of stimili just no sleeping at night!

(not that you would know, she is bl**dy rubbish!)

:-D :-D You obviously don't regard her highly as a mother then.

I'm certainly much more in favour of home rearing, however...............

Given the size of the breed, (which can you please edit out TOS :-) ) and further explanation of their routine the barn may work if you are to do this slowly by leaving the barn open for them to explore and get used to first, also allowing access to the garden and your home so that the early socialising does not go out of the window, that way they can have the best of all three worlds, pups also get used to their territory so to move them from your home to the barn immediately on a night would be very upsetting for them and create a lot more crying and noise than you are getting now, so do it in stages and open up their territory and they will get used to the extended accomodation they are privy to.

I would never put young puppies out for the night! Foxes, vermin, could get to them. They could even get stolen. You havn't got long left before they go to there new homes.
Try covering there cage at bed time, or leave a radio on low. They may need a drink as they are young, are they on dry food?

Denese

Hi Troubled, I too am in SW France and have a young litter and a baby!  The puppies were planned although the baby wasn't!!  My pups are only 3.5 weeks old and just starting to make their selves heard especially at 4am - Luckily my baby sleeps through it - so far.  Whereabouts are you in France??   Do you have to get the chips and health cert done by the vet for a cross same as a pedigree.  I understand what you are saying about the heat it is very hot here as well but if you can keep them in doors at night and then perhaps in a run in the garden if it's safe for a while during the day it may help.  PM me if you would like.  Sorry forgot to say I was tempted to put mine in the barn when they were older but was put off by the threat of snakes!

Jan