Hiya all, just wondering if anyone is going to be watching the programme ''My Weapon Is A Dog''.
its going to portray the youths today as not only using knifes in their gang culture but getting the most aggressive looking dog they can and using it.
Their is a man who owns a rottweiler who has taught it to attack on command bragging that its bite is so powerfull it could break someones arm.
The presenter is also going to use a staffy to see what sort of reaction he gets off the public just by walking it
its going to be shown on thursday at 9pm BBC3

Thanks, will book this up :)

Oh dear I know thats whats happening but its so sad. and scary. I work with young people and although some of it is bravado I have stopped discussing dogs with them as I get so angry with the  "Ive got a pit x ? and its really vicious " or " Goona get a staff,pit whatever and have pups cos I can get lots of money for them".
They are amazed that i have a gsd that ais not vicious and neither do I want him to be.
Will try to remember to watch it.

agree with you furriefriends it is sad,be good if these kids can see and enjoy the pleasures of owning a dog for someother reason than to be a weapon, im trying to get the council to allow us to use some waste ground around here to make some kind of agility corse for dogs, our wardens here do run little dog shows which are fun for kids familys and dogs so why not do agility i think it be good for the kids and their dogs , make them focus on the great fun you can have with your dog instead of scaring people and making their dogs unsocialable,
iv even offered to help maintain the area and help build it but they wont budge,

That sounds great shame the council dont have some imagination and wont assisit you

it is i know but i think its all this health and safty issues we have these days, case the council get sued if some gets hurt and all that stuff,

Yes i guess so , we cant be responsible for anything these days without the risk of someone wanting to sue. Its a shame because it gets in the way of some good stuff.

Must have missed this programme!
Was it any good?  What was the reaction toward the chap with the Stafford? 

ETA
Just looked the programme up, think it's on the TV on these dates:

Thu 21 May 2009  21:00  BBC Three
Fri 22 May 2009    00:15  BBC Three
Sun 24 May 2009  00:05  BBC Three
Sun 24 May 2009  04:05  BBC Three
Mon 25 May 2009  00:15  BBC Three
Mon 25 May 2009  04:35  BBC Three

Programme sounds interesting, hope they show the proper side to these breeds as the brill animals they are.  My friend has an adorable Staffy, she is a softy with the children and beautifully trained.

Grim story though - i was in our local park the other day and there were a group of lads with a youngish SBT.  They had swung a rope over the branch of a tree with some meat attached to it and then they made the dog jump for it.  When he grabbed a hold of it they yanked up the rope like a pully and left him hanging there.  He was twisting and thrashing to get down.  I really couldn't bear it so wandered over trying to look casual....i commented on how lovely the dog was etc then asked what they were doing.  The lad who's SBT it was said he was "toughening his jaws".  He said they were planning on leaving him up there for 20mins and that his mates did it with their dogs for hours.  I said he doesn't really look very happy, he looks quite upset - could you let him down (this was after some banter).  Eventually they let him down and went off, but i am sure they were just going to do it somewhere else.

Just so sad; the lad obviously cared about the dog but was full of bravado and just so ignorant about owning a dog.  My area is overrun with this breed especially and you can buy one for as little as £150.  I love these dogs but have to admit i will cross the road if i see a one with a young owner.

> I love these dogs but have to admit i will cross the road if i see a one with a young owner.

Why? Not every young person with a SBT is like that you've experienced. Typical sterotyping.  My brother (23) had a gorgeous black SBT who is so gentle in nature & has a excellent pedigree & it winds us all up so much when people purposely cross the road or walk in another direction to avoid him.

Please don't assume everyone with an SBT is the same, especially young folk they have it hard enough with making you it any worse.

> He was twisting and thrashing to get down. 

Hi teddyboy, much as I DO NOT want to turn this thread into a pro/con Stafford debate, I do feel I have to reply.  I would doubt he was twisting and thrashing to get down, although I accept I wasn't actually there and so don't know the condition of the dog nor it's owners, but generally IME the dogs actually quite enjoy the spring pull type exercise, HOWEVER, the dog should not leave the ground, and as for the 'toughening his jaws' comment, sadly this type of comment and attitude toward what can be a wonderful breed is all too common.

As an aside, I have spring pulls for my two Staffords, BUT, and it's a very very very BIG but, the chewing end is low down enough to the ground so that the dogs can still stand on their 2 back legs.  It is actually pretty good exercise if used correctly i.e. using a pulling action rather than a dangling, twisting, thrashing action.   My girl was fairly flabby around her tum after her spey op years ago, and this type of exercise really helped to tone her up.  However, it is used rarely in my garden, as 'normal' walking and free running exercise is suffice.

I hope that in the future you meet more adorable Staffords such as the one owned by your friend (oh and mine!) :)

Yeah i know.  Sorry didn't mean to offend.  I love SBT's - and young people!

Oh hey, not offended at all :)

I'm looking forward to watching this programme although i can predict exactly the sort of people who will feature on it and the sorts of sterotyping the programme will use.

thanks will book mark it.

> I love these dogs but have to admit i will cross the road if i see a one with a young owner.

I know what you mean, this is the one type of owner that I'm glad actually cross the road to aviod my dog! Many times I have been out with Buster, and I'll see a couple of young men (they always seem to be in groups of at least 2) swaggering up the road like they are untouchable, they have a staffy pulling so hard on the lead it's a wonder it hasn't passed out yet. As the lads get closer, Buster is in thier view, the change in them is instant and very amusing, the swagger stops and they shuffle off as fast as they can go, now they are pulling on the lead to get the staffie following them!!!
There is a young man down our road with a staffie, but he doesn't give off the same pratty 'macho' image he just seems like a bloke with a dog, rather than an idiot with a 4-legged status symbol/weapon.
If I had a smaller dog I would be worried about meeting the idiots with staffies, and it's not because they have staffies, it's the way they act, you can just tell there isn't an ounce of responsibility in them and they don't appear to have any regard for anybody else, they just seem to want to intimidate people.

I haven't seen the programme, but these type of people make me so cross, they don't ever appear to actually know anything about dogs either.

just a Reminder guys its tonite 9pm BBC3

I cried all through that programme, the mentality of these people is just beyond me!

Watched it.

I actually thought what a well behaved lovely Rotti Pepper was, the owner seemed to actually care for his dog which surprised me.

My heart went out to the dogs who were in the vets, that poor white Pitty, if it weren't a banned breed i'd of offered to re-home that one.

My thoughts after watching is that something needs to change, these people advertising online their Pitt's and having no regard for others in continuing to breed and import them from other countries.
The Law at this time doesn't protect people or the dogs against these bad owners.

watched it was shocked at some of what they showed esp the puppy staff with the fag burns was so sad,

the guy with the dog rocky the red lab a like dog  was a idiot

but the guy with the rottie seemed like he really loved his dog and he had trained her very well and showed a diffrent side to young people with dogs

i have a rottie myself and being a young female i do feel safer walking around at night when she is with me.

> As the lads get closer, Buster is in thier view, the change in them is instant and very amusing, the swagger stops and they shuffle off as fast as they can go, now they are pulling on the lead to get the staffie following them!!!
>

lol this is also the reaction i get with Tio.

> If I had a smaller dog I would be worried about meeting the idiots with staffies, and it's not because they have staffies, it's the way they act, you can just tell there isn't an ounce of responsibility in them and they don't appear to have any regard for anybody else, they just seem to want to intimidate people.
>

this is totally true. its why i get a quiet thrill (and believe me i do not have my dog as a status symbol or to act as a guard or a threat! but i like making these types pause) when they stop and think on seeing my lad. its the clear reaction of all bullies when faced with someone whos plainly not a target. sadly i don't think they equate their moment of disquiet with the feelings of dread they give other people and reconsider their actions :(

Missed this programe , hope it is repeated ... Know what you mean about feeling safe when walking a dog at night , i used to walk my lad late at night(post op) and felt safe , but only because i know most people who might do me harm will look at my dog and think twice , not because he is a baddie but he does look impressive and most people think huskies are a bit iffy anyway ....

it is being repeated shusky1, if you look at the top of this thread, I've posted the dates and times :)
I've sky plussed the programme, haven't watched it yet, but saw a couple of brief bbc news reports during the daytime news today regarding the HUGE increase in reported dog fighting incidents.

iv just watched it the rottie seemed trained well , he was from my area the guys mates dog who started out being nice playful then turned out nasty  this is what i see alot more of around here kids mingle with their dog some are ok some dogs are just untrained and allowed to stand their growling and snarling , i belive the kids dont no what their doing with their dog in some cases,
i have been trying to get our council to help us set up dogs agility course their are 3 wasted grass sites around here that could be cleared and a few log jumps , log polls in the ground , bit like an adventure playground for dogs, i feel some of these kids , like the boy with his rottie and his mates would benifit and the dogs could be being trained at agility , we have mini dog shows run by the council a few times a year just for fun, so why not start to encourge these kids  into what good things you can teach your dog , instead of just draging them round the streets, ok before i get shot down here i no alot of kid with dogs wouldnt be interested cos they want to look hard with their dog, but if you get some of the kids like King with the rottie then i belive others would follow, would wish oneday that the youth of peckham would gather on the green with thier dogs for the yearly dog agility event with a years supply of dog food and £100 voucher for pets world first prize, ;-)     , sorry was daydreaming,

> sadly i don't think they equate their moment of disquiet with the feelings of dread they give other people and reconsider their actions :-(

I think you're right :(

I saw the programme tonight, it left me feeling mad about the idiots with thier weapon-dogs, sad for the poor dogs that are the victims of the idot lads and frightened for the future of dogs :(

I can almost understand these pathetic people needing a dog next to them to make them feel 'hard', afterall they have little inteligence, but I can't even begin to imagine how anybody can treat thier dog like that. Basically most of the dogs get beaten into being hard/aggresive and the poor little dogs that don't cut the mustard are used like objects for the idiots to torture to make thierselfs feel big. Poor dogs, stupid, ignorant owners and poor society for having to live with low-lives like that :( :(

The lad with the Rottie, (King I think the lad was called?) did do a great job of training his dog with reward-based training, so why train to it to attack on command? silly, silly man.

The lad with the Rottie, (King I think the lad was called?) did do a great job of training his dog with reward-based training, so why train to it to attack on command? silly, silly man.

Protection around here you need protection most teens here you ask why they carry knifes and they say for protection, now thats made some of these kids go and get dogs but most of them dont know how to train them, like you said most are beaten its the dog that suffers i just wish their was help to educate these kids and show them they can still have a great looking dog that makes them look hard but without being a danger to anyone, im sure if Kings dog did attack someone then king would be well aware his dog would be PTS id hope that he cares enough for his dog that he would never let his dog attack for fear of loosing it,
sorry also theirs a good chance around here you would get robbed for your dog also, i have a 21 year old son and i would Not in a million years let him walk the streets with any of my 3 inface he has NEVER taken Any of my dogs for a walk i would be to affraid he'd get robbed for them,
i myself am petrifide when i walk them at night even tho my rotties a big looking monster he's a big baby really and was surrounded on a train plateform once when i had my English bully buy a gang of youths who started to close in on me and i know they were planing on robbing me so i had to run,

as a bull breed owner one of the first things i was taught was how to safely seperate two dogs if they ever got into a fight (something every owner should know), it appears the younger generation have not been handed down one of the most basic skills in strong dog ownership.the show was biased against bull breeds as has become the norm but to be fair a few people did say it was more a case of the other end of the lead from the dog being the cause of the problem.

Hi Cooper

How do you safely separate two dogs who are fighting?  Also, is it the same way if one dog is much smaller than the other or different?  How can you tell they are actually about to fight or if a dog is going to attack?

I don't know this but had a plan to throw a coat over their heads but this is prob some Old Wives Tale i have picked up from somewhere.

Thanks

A bucket of cold water helps lol!  Or the garden hose.
I would really only panic if you see blood though - my 2 frequently tussle and are more noise than anything else; even when they are holding on to each others throats it's all noise and no chewing.  I am sure my neighbours think they are killing each other but they are really only playing and asserting themselves - both are entire, evenly matched and in their prime, typical brothers if you ask me.

The dangerous dogs are the ones that give no warning of an attack.

garden hose my rottie LOVES IT lol he sees it as playtime everytime i try to water anything , i have to put him out back when washing my car or out front when im watering the veg,
even then he stand at the door waiting for water play total nutter,

have to agree sometimes the playing sounds alot worse than it is my boy plays with a female rottie up the road and she is Very noisy it does almost sound like they are having a real scrap,

It's on the iplayer too shusky1, I've just watched.  Very difficult viewing at some points, esp at the start I had tears in my eyes as I watched those horrid boys kick & the dogs fight.  I think it was a very well made documentary, maybe a shame it wasn't given more publicity or on a more watched channel.  Applaud the guy who did it (DJ on Kiss?), he presented a very well balanced program & didn't keep going on about it's always staffies or pitbulls, I hadn't realised mastiff's were getting so common.  The guy with the Rottie I thought was great, disappointed with the training to attack he claimed to have done but I think that is possible more bravado in front of the cameras etc, it was reassuring to see that not every young man with that type of dog is doing it for the wrong rasons, he clearly loved Pepper who was very well trained - he impressed me.  I was a bit disappointed to see the reference to hiphop though - these rappers whilst I'm sure aren't totally innocent do seem to get blamed for a lot of the bad stuff young people do, at the end of the day they're only catering for an audience that's already there.

Overall I think it was a good starting point in addressing the obvious increase in so called status dogs, I just hope it's followed up in the right way.  Wonder if a certain other dog related producer watched it, she might have learned a few things about presenting a balanced, educated program.

I think that when people hear the noise then start getting stressed that it makes the situation much worse - if left alone a lot of these situations would sort themselves out I believe.  The most important thing when confronted with dogs fighting is not to get yourself in a flap :-)

I watched with interest and felt it only just scratched the surface as the problem is much bigger and much worse than this.
The dogs they showed were just dog aggresive but if your an owner out with your pet and you meet these sorts of people its very intimidating and they love to see thier dogs have a go and sometimes worse attack yours, which doesn't do a lot for your dogs confidence or state of mind. Many peoples pets have lost thier lives to these numptys who think its fun and they look hard.
The one thing that really worries me about the programme is how they harped on a bit about being violent to the dog made it more aggresive and they mentioned about crossing the dogs to get more vicious types.
They have for a couple of years been crossing thier staffs with other breeds round here to try and see who can breed the most aggresive. But I fear the programme will escalate all these lads watching (and I bet there was a lot) to become very violent to thier dogs and mistreat thier dogs much more to get the dogs to be more vicious.

The guy with the Rottie I thought was great, disappointed with the training to attack he claimed to have done but I think that is possible more bravado in front of the cameras,

think your right on that, i would imagine that King would be a little wary wondering the streets around here today with his well trained dog if he hadnt had said it would attack on command,
he would be looking over his shoulder waiting for some jelouse idiots to jack him for his dog, its all to offten happing around here , i know 4 people had their dogs stollen at knife point in this area hence why iv never let my 21 year old take mine out for a walk he's been mugged 7 times and its well known you cant have nothing nice round here as its just going to get you mugged,
a young man was dragged out of his car at gun point last week and they stole his car not knowing that his young baby was asleep in the baby seat at back ,caused quite a stir but the car was then dumped 2 streets away thankfully baby was fine,
im amazed that we dont seem to be hearing any of these incidents in ourlocal press but then theirs an election coming up so i only guessing that its all hush hush at the moment,

> you cant have nothing nice round here as its just going to get you mugged,

I'm assuming you don't life in Chelsea - where do you live, if you don't mind me asking?

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

in a situation where a breaking stick is not available then smelling salts sometimes work, also a firm grip under the collarand twist until the dog opens his mouth for air can work but the break stick is the most humane way to seperate a fight where the dogs are locked on, what happened on that programme where people were dragging dogs and kicking them would only result in worse injuries.

im in Peckham same place as where that King and his rottie comes from they were in my local park on that show last nite, i felt bad for his pal with the staffy clearly the boy wanted to let the dog play but it started getting nasty , but the boy just draged the dog away and said "i dont no why shes like that" i do think alot of kids with these dogs around here would be happy to take part in some training classes and teach their dogs some Agility , most of them would love their dog to be as well trained as Kings they just dont know how to do that without beating on their dogs its sad,we sure got enough free wasted grass areas that are all overgrown and theirs no access to them they are just left, i would love to help clear one of these areas and set up a course for people to use i belive it would create an interest that these kids could thrive at and get their dogs doing posative things good socializing for them also,
id be their every day with my 3, but theirs nothing here for the kids even let alone the dogs.

bigest joke of all is our big park has just been awarded 4 or 6 million (not sure which as i see two differant amounts in the press) this is to fix up the very large Burges park and their are NO Plans to do Anything with the very run down childrens park area,
i suppose their going to plant more trees and shrubs on 4 million :-o

I wonder if this would work when my dogue de bordeaux and rottiexGSD were fighting? I very much doubt it, i have often thought the only thing that would separate them would be a tazer, and the world strongest man and 2nd strongest to keep a hold of either of them to stop them going back together.

do you have both dog then? do they really fight , i mean proper fights?
i have my rottie whos quite placid and he takes alot of stick from my English bully whos one year next month, rotties almost 4,
my bully does seem to live up to their name and my zeus has had a snap at him if he get to much, but the bully will always come back at him i even if its a few mins later he dont like my rottie telling him off so to speak, im always around and try to be careful if they get to over excited during play, i will part them for a while case it gets nasty tho i trust my rottie would only defend himself my bully seems to not want to stop if my rottie tell him off i have to chase him inside and he would still want to turn and have a go at my rottie whos by this time not bothered, thinking my littleones got a lot more to learn, i dont want no real big fights with them, i have to be very firm with him then he settles,

I thought the programme last night would potentially do more harm to dogs in general than pedigree dogs exposed.  There were adverts showing french mastiffs for £250 and lots of shots of potentially aggressive crossbreeds - the red dog that looked like a ridgeback cross which was a rottiex staff/pit (can't remember which).  The programme showed some total idiots but there were some great points like pepper the rottie which for once showed rotts in a positive light.

I thought it was a bit sad that the dog warden was treated with such disdain by everyone which doesn't do much for the credibility of the dog warden to sort out any canine concerns in the community.

for anyone who hasn't seen it - definitely worth a watch but very distressing at points.

The show was awful - of all the appalling owners the 2 girls with their dogs were the worse. I'm just amazed we don't hear of more dog attacks if this is the state of some areas in this country.

I think it proves we need compulsory neutering or euthanasia - but for some owners not their dogs. Show me the people who tortured that puppy and I will gladly do it for free!

They are walked separately now but they had 4 fights the last one being a really bad one (not that the others were not) but it had become serious to a point that i was scared that one of them would be killed, which is why i contacted rspca for him (Rio) to be found a new home, but we have made adjustments so he can stay. The last fight which ended in hundreds of pounds of vets bill sedation and many antibiotics was when they were battling for 10 mins and both were exhausted, but still locked on ones throat and the others head. Its like lions fighting and id be on my own trembling with adrenaline and fear and is not a sight or a feeling i would wish on anyone.

People that actually train their dogs to fight is nothing but sick and cowardly! I have just finished watching the programme, which was what i expected and i know it was going to happen eventually that my breed would be used as the next status dog and something to mix in with the pitbulls for another dangerous concoction. The guy with the hat that had rocky had no idea what he was talking about and having that dog in anything but a steel cage is a risk to human and other animals lives. Pure stupidity, i hope the police have him on a short list, the same with the very blonde bordeaux which i thought was a cross. The rottie was gorgeous though and i dont even think she would attack on command too soppy. im glad hes turning his life around with the help of a pooch. I hope that the programme doesnt spark any negative reactions where people would see the french mastiff and go on the look out for one to buy.

Just to add my french mastiffs/ dogues have cost in excess of £1000-£1250 each, not £250

see this is my worry gotta say that now the boys are getting older id hate to come back to a blood bath with my 2,
my Bully is caged while im out anyway and im never gone from the house for more that an hour or 2,
i can recall my Rottie off in a fighting situation he will come away even if he is being attact,
the other week i had to get a teenager girls x bred off my boy as  her dog started to attack my boy and they both started fighting while i shouted for my boy to LEAVE!
i could see  him trying to get away to come to me BUT THE GIRLS DOG WERNT LETTING UP,  and she stood their screaming not nowing what to do never called her dog or anything, i ended up getting my hand in their when i see a tooth free space and grabed her dogs collar pulling him away but i also  had my boys collar in the other hand then i lost my balance and fell into a lamp post and broke my nose the dog started jumping over me to still get to my boy i shouted at the girl (who was standing looking gormless)to go to my house as i was on the floor (i live across the road from where it happened, shouting at her get my OH i said as she ran off her dog stopped and followed her ( FGS is that all it took i thought) the girl live 2 doors from me and its he boyfriends dog shes looking after,i got my weiry self up and both dogs were fine thank god, just me who ended up with 2 blackeyes and a broken nose , i think i need to work on the little bully he is a year old next month so still a youngster but he's a little domanent, i hope i can avoid any big fights as id recon id have a job getting my bully off my rottie in a couple of years time if i dont clamp down on his dominent ways, it would break my heart to have to rehome him at any point in his life he's my baby (i no it sound silly) id rather kick out my OH and he can take the rottie with him than part with my lil boy, ;-o

Hello, reply to mastiff lover 20/05/09
Im new to this site and just having a scan threw. Your msg stood out to me as i totally agree with you. Theres Not many things i react to. But i just cannot stand these idiots who own staffies because there mate has an hes 'well vicious'. Everytime i see these so called people who i think have bought a staffy for the wrong reason (there easy to spot) i'll make a habit of fussing it, they hate that as they think everyone will be scared of it. Staffies have got such a character and i hope i havnt offended anyone who owns a staff as i think they are sweet and its a shame that because of these idiots that own them for the wrong reasons, by some, they are labelled bad dogs, they are not, some of the peope today who own them are trying to enforce the undesirable traits of the breed, whilst some are bringing them up how they deserve to be, such a shame.  
I had a gsd and bullmastiff, both were stunning, especially my shep he was a gentle GIANT. When i was out walking them the only one who ever got the attention off young hoodies was my bullmastiff, 'is that a pitbull', 'she looks vicious'. She was 3 times the size of a pitbull! It used to irritate me, i never used to answer them in the end.