Hi,

I hope this post isn't in the wrong forum, I wasn't sure if it was a 'behaviour' or 'general' thing so I plumped for this one.

Ruby, our chocolate labrador, is just over 5 months old. Up until a couple of weeks ago she was confined to our conservatory until we felt she was house-trained enough to go into other rooms in the house. Her crate is in the conservatory, and I work in there during the day so that she's not on her own. We also have a futon/sofa in there and a portable TV so we can sit and watch TV and play and cuddle with her on the futon. The room is fairly well puppy-proofed, and after an initial spate of chewing the futon, table legs and shelf unit she seems to have lost interest in those and prefers her hide bones and other toys.

Obviously in the long-term we want her to be able to have the run of the downstairs rooms, and I feel very guilty when we sit in the living room watching something on TV and she's on her own in the conservatory (to be fair this is usually for an hour or so in the evening, she's really not on her own very much these days and even when she is separation anxiety isn't an issue, she just curls up on the futon and goes to sleep). As she seems to be ok on the house-training front, over the past couple of weeks we've been bringing her into the living room with us in the evenings. I figured it will take a while for her to settle in there and see it as an extension to her home, but she simply won't settle down in there no matter what we do. We take her toys in with us and play with her and do all the things we'd do in the conservatory, but she keeps chewing on the furniture and generally misbehaving and simply won't settle down like she does in the conservatory. Eventually she ends up in overtired/mental mode, so we end up having to take her back in the conservatory to make her settle. I know these things take time, and I hoped that if we continued to take her into the living room even just for 10 minutes a day, she'd eventually learn to settle down in there. I guess the point of my post is to ask those with experience of such things whether we're going about this the right way. Is this is pretty normal behaviour for a pup of her age, and do you think she'll settle eventually if we persevere? If not, what would you recommend with regard to introducing a young pup to the rest of the house?

Thanks in advance for any advice or tips!

Try setting up her crate in the other room and putting her in there with you to watch tv, maybe she will settle down then.

It's a bit difficult to move the crate because of how it's situated in the conservatory, plus she only generally sleeps in there overnight now (she prefers the floor or futon during the day). We did put some of her favourite bedding on the floor, though, to see if she would flop out on that once she tired of playing, but so far no dice - she's more interested in chewing the new sofa! Thanks for the tip, though. If we can move it, we may well try that.

I always let my dogs have the run of the house at all times (Except my sons bedroom as he has allergies) even my 15 week old pup. I just couldn't imagine confining them to to one room. I have to keep letting him out to  toilet but if I ever miss he goes in the same spot in the downstairs loo (pity I can't train him to use it :-D)

I think maybe she is just exited to be with you but will settle down as my pup has. I just give him some chews to keep him entertain when I'm sat watching TV on an evening. 

I do feel bad that she didn't have the run of the house sooner, but we really wanted to wait until we were confident in her toilet training before doing that.  The conservatory is linked to the kitchen, where we spend much of our time, so she's not on her own very often - and it also leads out into the back garden, giving her quick access to the outdoors (where she spends most of her time on warm days while I'm roasting in the conservatory, working with the doors open so madam can come and go as she pleases!)

Anyway, I just returned to the conservatory after leaving her sleeping there an hour ago, to find she'd peed on the carpet. So it would seem she's not quite as good on the old toilet-training front as I thought she was (three weeks clean, now two 'accidents' in the space of four days. Grah!) I do find it odd, as she's perfectly capable of holding it in for hours now, and has been clean in her crate overnight for months. She seemed to have made the link between not peeing in the crate and not peeing in the conservatory so it's strange that she suddenly seems to have gone two steps back. I guess I have to remember she's still technically a baby and maybe her memory isn't as good as a human's! Forgive me if I sound naive or impatient, this is all pretty new to me so I'm not sure whether we're doing things right or not!

Hi

Your pup sounds as if its just excitement being in a new room- new smells lots of new furniture to munch on! Maybe you could buy her a new cushion bed find a snug corner for it to live and not make and issue of walking from room to room maybe doing an everyday chore polishing having a tidy up?  keep open all doors so she can go back to her 'den ' the conservatory and let her mooch about when she does investigate her new bed put a few treats on it to make it a extra happy place where she will love to go to. Giving her dinner in the front room will make her realise it is another safe den area to. It might take time as she has had 5 months of a small area but try not to make a fuss let her go in her own pace. Doing basic sit stay lie down training will take her mind of where she is as well.

She looks so adorable in her little picture. :-) 

I wouldn't feel too bad about it.  In theory we let our pup access all areas downstairs but in practise he spent his first few weeks in the utility room, kitchen and hall.  I'd keep the door to one reception room shut much of the time as my older dog would use the low window to bark at people, neither of them wanted to go in the downstairs toilet, except to occasionally pinch the loo roll, so that door remained shut AND he was only allowed in the living room if we were in there.

There's no point worrying that you should have started sooner as you can still sort it out quite easily.  At 5 months you're bound to still have the odd accident but she should be able to tell you (or you should be able to recognise the signs) that she needs to go out.  It also makes sense to let her have some freedom to wander so that she can come and find you when she wakes up.  Vigilance is the key as you know and you're best able to do that if she in the same place as you.

With regards to her behaviour when you are watching TV it's not unreasonable to expect her to be calm.  We've always made a point of teaching ours that this room is for quiet time.  With that in mind, before we settle down to watch TV we'd make sure the pup was exercised physically and mentally and just as important was empty before he came in.  I used to find that 10 minutes training was enough to help him conk out in a corner.  Both boys have beds all over the place but the one in this room is a favourite one and encourages upside down snoozing!

When he woke up and needed to pee or play we'd take him straight outside for another short session then back in for a snooze.  If he was wide awake I'd go and find something else to do until he was droopy enough to come back in.  He's now 21 months and both dogs dogs know full well that this room is not for playing about, chewing, or pinging off the walls.  Be consistent and your girl will get the message.  Mine was pretty settled by 5 or 6 months and yours will be ok too just as soon as the novelty of being in the TV room wears off. 

Just a final thought - are you going to training classes?  Good training exercises their minds as well as keeping their bodies busy.  You will also learn instructions like on your bed, settle, sit etc all of which are helpful disciplines when you want some time off.

Good luck and don't stress, she'll learn xxx

Hi Magica,

I thought that her current behaviour might be due to excitement - thanks for confirming my suspicions! That's why I thought introducing her to the room for short lengths of time initially might help. You point about letting her mooch about is a good one, I must admit we've been closing the door when we're in the living room with her (mostly to keep the cats out!) but I guess this might seem odd to her. We were having a look at beds at the weekend as we eventually would like her to not have to sleep in her crate overnight, but just have her bed and we could move a cushion bed from room to room during the daytime if needed. Thank you for the tips!

Hi dogs a babe,

Thanks for your advice. I know her accident this afternoon was my fault really. She'd been very over-excited before I took her back to the conservatory, and I should have taken her out there and then for a pee before leaving her in there to sleep. I suppose her 'clean' three weeks have made me a little complacent - I just thought she'd twigged not to pee indoors anymore, as she's been very good at waiting for us to let her out to pee. To balance her naughtiness this afternoon she was incredibly well behaved on her evening walk, so I can't hold it against her ;-)

I have been taking her into the living room when she's already snoozy, but I think the excitement of being in a 'new' room makes her over-excited, and then she gets over-tired and bitey like she did today. We have been taking her to obedience classes for a couple of months now, and believe it or not she was top of the class after her beginners course (which I was stupidly proud about!) I hadn't thought about doing some  training in the living room with her (I thought playing with her might tire her but it just made her even more over-excited!) I will give that a try next time, I know it does generally tire her.  I want her to see the living room the same way your dogs see yours - a place where she can just chill out and be with us. I know a lot of this will improve as she gets older, but it's really useful to get advice from people who have experience of 'the puppy years'. Thank you!

5 months confined to one room seems a bit over the top to me I introduce a puppy to all the rooms in the house then shut the door of the rooms I want them to steer clear of.
In the living room I let puppy sit with the family and take them out to the toilet every half  hour or so  , immediately after play or food and if I see them sniffing the floor and cirlcling , if you dont allow them into rooms you use they become so excited when they are allowed in.
I would accept the odd accident just wipe it up and ignore it dont shout at her as she wont understand just take her out to finish off.
If you leave the room take her with you  , I only have a puppy in the crate at night or if I go out or up the stairs otherwise they are with me.

roni

5 months probably seems excessive, but we didn't get her until she was already three months old. She was behind on her housetraining at that point, and we had been advised to crate train her, so we've had to wait for her to 'catch up' before we felt secure enough to start taking her into the rest of the house. Please bear in mind we're new to this, and we've been trying to do what we think is best for her as well as us - and we've had a lot of conflicting advice. For what it's worth, the only time we've not had her with us is when we're eating (in the living room) and occasionally when we've watched something on TV in there. Otherwise we've always been in the kitchen, conservatory or garden with her.

> I always let my dogs have the run of the house at all times

> even my 15 week old pup

Me too, from day 1.

i wouldn't worry about her getting excited in the living room it's only because she hasn't got used to the rest of the house. I got my last dog at 6 months and she wasn't house trained but i still let her have free run down stairs as long as i kept an eye on her.
She is 10 months now and i still take her outside and make make sure she's gone to the toilet every couple of hours or so, after eating and playing etc and we've only ever had a few accidents in the house. Rather than relying on her to take herself off to the toilet why don't you make sure you go out with her every couple of hours just so you know she's been and also before she comes in the living room at night.
Have a got a word to say to her when she goes to the loo, i find it really helps make them concentrate on the job in hand and even if they don't really need to go they'll do a little wee.
I think you'd be best off letting her have as much freedom in the house as possible down stairs and she'll soon stop getting so excited as it will become the norm.  

Thanks bear. I'm getting the impression I'm being frowned upon for not introducing her to the rest of downstairs before now, but as I said above we did have what we thought were good reasons for that and were following advice we'd had previously. I understand of course that a lot of her inability to settle in the living room is because she's excited by all the new things to sniff and chew, I just was interested to see if my assumptions were right and how other people who have owned pups before handled this kind of thing.  I also don't rely on her to take herself off to the toilet, and sorry if that's the impression I gave. Rather, she's been so good at holding in her pees when indoors, telling me she wants to go out, or just wandering outside during the sunny days when the doors are open, that I think I perhaps got lulled into a false sense of security as far as her toilet training was going. Yesterday's accident was a rare occasion where she'd been outside to pee before I had to leave her, but I forgot that all that over-excitement when she was in the living room meant she'd likely need to pee again not long after that. My fault, there, and a wake-up call that she's not as fully house trained as I'd assumed. Anyway it sounds like we're doing the 'right' things now in letting her mooch around with us downstairs, even if it's considered to be a bit 'late in the day' by other people's standards.

ps. I'm writing this on a laptop in the living room while Ruby is sleeping, curled up on the Big Chair next to me with her 'dad'. Progress!

Hi,

Dogs don't generalise well, especially when they are young and learning.  Just becuase she's toilet trained in one room and one area doesn't mean she will be in other areas.  Because she's just been in one room and right near to where she need to get to to go out she will no need to learn that she needs to do the same where ever she is.  She is very much a baby and these things take time.  If she does have an accident the it's no big deal just make sure it's cleaned well with bio washing powder or something that will take the smell away.  Don't rely on her to let you know give her plenty of opportunity to get it right by taking her out regularly especially if she's been excited.  Go out with her and reward her when she's done.  It's worth teaching her to toilet on cue which can be really useful.

The first few months of having a pup are so important in terms of socialisation and this includes, getting used to the normals comings and goings of a household and household noises and a youngster shouldn't ever only be confined to one room IMO so you were given some bad advice.  I'm sure she will get used to things fairly quickly now though.  Just to let you know it's perfectly normal for occasional set backs up until a year old and young bitches can often have accidents around their season, especially their first.

It's really important for her to be experiencing as much as possible inside and out at this age, pretty much the most important thing you can do for a young pup is to socialise them well, that way your likely to end up with a well adjusted adult that is relaxed and confident and doesn't get over excited/stressed by change or new things.

Hi Karen,

Thanks for the advice. Must admit I'd not really thought about house 'socialisation' on a par with external socialisation but that does make sense. She settled down in the living room earlier and slept for about an hour on a chair while we were just having some quiet time in front of the TV, so she's already making progress, which is great. And knowing to expect setbacks right up to a year old is handy, I won't stress so much if she has accidents in future!

Oh, just to correct any misunderstanding I might have caused - she actually peed in the conservatory (her usual 'den') not the living room, which is why I was so taken aback by it at the time. In the past few weeks when we have been taking her into the living room she has sat by the door in there to tell us she wants to go out, so she's definitely learning that's what she needs to do whichever room she's in. She's pretty good with the household noises, too - the Dyson doesn't phase her at all, and after her initial barking at Poirot on the 'big' TV in the living room (I think she thought he had just entered the room somehow) she's become pretty used to the noises in there, too (though I can't wait until she's in there with us when we're playing 'Rock Band' - that's going to be a fun night!) There are no other rooms in the house for her to get used to now, as we're not letting her upstairs until she's bigger because of the risk to her bones/hips climbing the stairs, and she comes through the hall with us in and out of the kitchen/living room.

Thanks again!

> 5 months probably seems excessive, but we didn't get her until she was already three months old

I got my pup when he was 11 weeks old, he spent the first few weeks mainly the kitchen with a stair-gate at the door (I have my 'office' area in my kitchen so am in there most of the time), whenever he left the kitchen he was on a lead. After the first few days, every evening he would come in the living room with us on-lead. This progressed to off-lead time in the livingroom as he was learning to be a bit more sensible in there. At around 5 months old he fell asleep on the sofa in the evening, he looked so comfy that we left him there for the night, since then he had the run of the downstairs.

I was happy with this arrangement as I had 1 room that was completely puppy-proof, pup was happy with this arrangement and it gave my cat and eldery dog time to get used to pup.
They can only be in 1 room at a time so don't feel guilty about having him in 1 room, as long as he's got company while he's in there :)

Thanks mastifflover. Your arrangement with your pup sounds very similar to ours, with me and her being in the conservatory/kitchen all day. The only difference up until a few weeks ago was that she didn't come with us when we had our dinner in the living room, but then we'd go and sit on the futon with her and watch TV in the conservatory later.  I must admit I'd not thought of taking her into the living room on a lead - it certainly would have helped tonight, when she decided to have a mad five minutes in there! I'm sure with time she'll settle, though, as she did in the conservatory.  I've already been using some of the helpful hints people have supplied on here and it did result in her settling down and snoozing in there earlier today (basically I wore her out beforehand), so I think she will eventually settle in there as so far she's proven to be very adaptable (if naughty!) The cats aren't best pleased at her invading 'their' space, mind, but I'm sure they'll get over it.

ps. just looked at your photos - what a gorgeous bunch of pets you have there! Buster is fantastic, such a big old soppy face!

> My fault, there, and a wake-up call that she's not as fully house trained as I'd assumed.

Easy to forget they're still only puppies when things have been going well - but at least you've recognised that you should still be "on alert."  :-)

She is by no means past that age, and folk often expect too much too soon.  Going back to vigilance and going outside with her at the usual times.  As someone already mentioned, at this age, she may be coming up to her first season, another reason to watch for extra pees.  Sounds like you are making progress though!  I'm sure that the cats will eventually get used to her :-)

Hi Jean, Thanks for your reply. It's very easy to forget how young she still is, particularly as she's grown so big over the past couple of months! I have to remind myself that she's not even six months old yet and is still such a baby. I gather we have the 'teenage' behaviour to look forward to in the coming months - oh joy! :-)

> I must admit I'd not thought of taking her into the living room on a lead - it certainly would have helped tonight, when she decided to have a mad five minutes in there!

I found keeping him on a lead at first in the livingroom a great help. It meant that my old dog felt much more secure (as pup couldn't ambush him) and when he had his mad 5 mins it was much  easier to remove him from the livingroom (gently lead him out), as if  I held his collar he would bite the living daylights out of me - he thought collar-grabbing was a great game! Also, our livingroom is the access to the garden, I found that leading pup into garden and keeping him on-lead untill he had done his 'jobs' much quicker, if I let him out off-lead he would be too busy exploring to 'go'.

He sort of 'merged' into having free-run on the downstairs with increasing periods of off-lead living-room access, I still have a baby-gate at the livingroom door, this is usually open, but it is occasionally used for keeping Buster out of the livingroom if my boys are eating or I have visitors that are nervous of him.

>The cats aren't best pleased at her invading 'their' space, mind, but I'm sure they'll get over it.

Yep, they'll get over it. My cat hid upstairs for 2 weeks when I brought pup home, she soon came round and overtime got used to him. Now she will wander up to him and rub her head on his face giving him some love :) If he is silly enough to mistake that for her wanting to play, she'll set him straight!
Just remember to supervise pup & cats interactions, cats claws can do a lot of damage to eyes, but it's much better to not keep them seperated, just make sure cats have an escape route where they can get away from pup if they want to.

>what a gorgeous bunch of pets you have there! Buster is fantastic, such a big old soppy face!

ahhh thank you :)

When my hubby was young his family had a Yankee who never really was allowed in any part of the house but the kitchen, as he had the excitable weeing thing. I hasten to add it was a kitchen which was the main area where the family hung out in the evenings, so he was with them most of the time, when he wasn't mooching around the garden! But we had a similar thing with our own Yankee when we first got him, I would get home, let them into the garden, then let them in the lounge, and he would promptly wee in it from excitement! We persevered and he did grow out of it though. :-)

Hi LucyDogs, we have a similar problem with Ruby with the excitable weeing, but fortunately it only happens whenever we have someone new visit the house. I've taken to getting them to come in via the back gate, so she meets them on the patio where it doesn't matter if she leaks! Once she's used to them, the excitement pees seem to stop (thank goodness!)

Hi pook!

Have a lot of empathy with you over introducing your pup to other parts of the house. Khan is now nearly a year old and is housetrained, hasn't had an accident in months, during the four hours I am at work and overnight he is confined to the hall. This is only because he has a destructive nature and we couldn't contain everything in the kitchen away from him. However we wanted him to be part of our family and knew he preferred to be with us when we were at home so we began to introduce him to the lounge in the evenings.
We had to start by taking him in on the lead as he literally bounced on everything around the room. When he became to much he was sent back out to the hall. Slowly he started to settle and when he'd finally flop we would take the lead off him.
as if  I held his collar he would bite the living daylights out of me - he thought collar-grabbing was a great game! (mastiflover) Khan still needs to grow out of this habit as when he's wound up and needs to be removed he does an amazing act of being floppy and I have to drag him out of the room, such a child!!
Now he is more settled and loves coming in for cuddles although he does have 'off days' and lays under the coffee table barking! We've also had to remove some things as he can't help making a dive for the cushions, remote control, coasters, contents of bin and some niknaks when I've left the room! (pilfered within seconds, no time to make tea and come back again!) Plus we have a large lounge with pc, musical instruments and open shelving at one end so we've had to barrier this off as we'd end up with nothing!
We bought a separate bed for lounge and he has different toys for the lounge, he loves soft toys with squeaks and we only allow him to have them when in lounge with us.
The next stage is to start the introductions for upatairs!!

Hi starmutley!

Khan looks lovely (assuming that's him in your icon pic) Is he an English Setter? If so, no wonder he's so excitable. I once worked for a family who had an English Setter and once he quietened down he was great, but 80% of the time he was just a massive ball of energy.

We had to start by taking him in on the lead as he literally bounced on everything around the room.

Ah yes, this sounds very familiar. Ruby has just discovered what fun it is to jump from the sofa to the footstool to the chair! So far, though, she's not done any actual damage to the furniture. It's something I need to discourage, though, because when she's fully grown she'll probably break the footstool if she attempts to jump on it!

Thank you to absolutely everybody who's offered their experience and constructive advice, it's really helped and we've definitely made some progress just in the past few days - we spent a very enjoyable couple of hours last night catching up on some DVDs while Ruby snored on the sofa in the background. Hurrah!

yep that's my boy!
I have to say it's lovely to have him in the lounge, especially when we're all at home. He's a lot calmer now and we take just as much fun watching him flaked out asleep on the sofa as taking him on walks - particularly when he's dreaming or snoring!!
enjoy your quiet evenings!