Just after anyones experiences of bloat.  Fagan was poorly on Sunday whilst staying at my mums - restless and lethargic.  She took him to the vet who checked him over but could only see that he had a slightly hard spleen, she gave him an antibiotic injection and painkiller, he went back to my mums and slept all day.  I picked him up in the evening from my mums and he was happy enough, when we got home he had a drink and just laid out in the garden tensing up every now and then as if he wanted to bring something up but it wasnt proper heaving like dogs do when they are sick.  I phoned the vet again she was stumped,  said to see how he went and to bring him in the morning for tests, xrays etc.  She did say if he got any worse or if I was worried then they would have him in that night.  No change this morning so I took him to the vets, during the 15 minute drive he started to bloat. They x-rayed him and saw a build up of gas so operated, his gut was twisted and his spleen had a slight heamorrhage so they removed that too, they have stitched his stomach to the lining to stop it twisting again.  They are keeping him in for a couple of days.

Apparantly it could have been building up for days, but he hid it really well - he even competed in an agility show on Saturday AND got a placing !  Before Sunday when he was obviously ill, they only thing out of character he did was grumble at my mum on Friday when she tried to move him over on the sofa.

Has anyone else experienced this, can anyone think of a cause ? my mum is blaming herself but I told her its just one of those things.  Also aftercare, I know the vet will give me advice but what are everyone elses experiences.

Claire

Unfortunately theres not a answer to why dogs bloat, some say its stress, feeding etc, having Danes or any large deep chested breeds, they can blow anytime, and the most important thing is to get them to the vets, some of the vets will have to remove the spleen, or staple it onto the stomach to stop it twisting, depending on how bad the bloat is, most recover from it!
I have never had a dog with Bloat, but have seen it, and the colour will colour in there gums, trying to be sick, extending stomach.
I have heaps of papers on this, and nobody knows the cause!

 

WHAT IS BLOAT?

The stomach becomes dilated by abnormal amounts of food or gas. For some reason the valve to the oesophagus fails to open and release the surplus air. The food begins to ferment and create more gas. - This progresses to rotation of the stomach on its axis

Bloat or 'Gastric Torsion' (Gastric dilation-volvulus syndrome), is caused by the build up of fluid & gases within the stomach. The accumulation is swift and dramatic, disrupting the normal function of the heart. The reasons leading to the dilation of the stomach are not really known and some theories include the ingestion of large amounts of food and water immediately prior to exercise, air swallowing and obstructions of the stomach outflow, stress and dietary factors.

Research at Liverpool University is at present underway and will include comparing the behavior of stomach muscle in many different breeds, for whilst we know that large breeds, such as ours, are prone to this, many other breeds are also affected. The University will try to determine why some breeds are more susceptible than others are, whilst also trying to identify the coauses and possible remedy of the horrific problem of bloat in our breed.

POSSIBLE CAUSES
A) Stress & abrupt changes  certain breed; Giant breeds are commonly affected and there are often familial tendencies, deeper chested dogs tend to have weaker muscles. C) There has to be weakness of the gastric attachments and this usually occurs in the older dog.

MAKE SURE YOU AND YOUR VET UNDERSTAND BEFORE IT HAPPENS TO YOU. IF BLOAT IS SUSPECTED YOUR VET MUST BE ABLE TO ATTEND AND TO OPERATE WITHIN MINUTES - ANY TIME OF DAY OR NIGHT. He/she should be totally familiar with the symptoms & procedures and fully aware, that to casually dismiss your suspicions and/or an early diagnosis as a false alarm could very easily result in death. Ask your Vet what he/she would do if you rang with any of the symptoms and if you don't think you get a satisfactory answer tell him so, or find a vet that will.

Surgery is major and complicated and the surgical care is intensive and very expensive. (£400 - £600), It is so important that your dog is insured so that you and your vet do not have to be concerned about the costs involved.
_____________________________________________________________

BLOAT PHASES AND RECOMMENDED ACTIONS

PHASE 1
(This phase may last between 1-2 hours. It also may not - DONT DELAY)
SYMPTOMS:
1. Pacing, restless, panting and salivating.
2. Unproductive attempts to vomit (every 10-20 mins).
3. Abdomen exhibits fullness and beginning to enlarge. (This includes expansion of the front abdomen & rib cage)

ACTIONS: Call your vet to advise of bloat case enroute. Inform him that your dog is insured. TRANSPORT your dog to the surgery IMMEDIATELY.

PHASE 2 (Once this stage is reached, veterinary attention must be given within a maximum of 30 mins)
SYMPTOMS:
1.Very restless, whining, panting continuously, heavy salivating.
2. Unproductive attempts to vomit (every 2-3 mins).
3. Dark red gums.
4. High heartbeat rate (80-100 BPM).
5. Abdomen is enlarged and tight. Emits hollow sound when thumped.
ACTIONS: CALL VET IMMEDIATELY - DOSE WITH ASILONE, GAVISCON OR OTHER BRAND. TRANSPORT your dog to the surgery WITHOUT DELAY.

PHASE 3
SYMPTOMS:
1. Gums are dark purple or blue
2. Dog unable to stand or has spread-legged, shaky stance.
3. Abdomen is very enlarged.
4. Extremely high heart beat rate (100 BPM or greater) and weak pulse.
ACTIONS: Death is imminent! There is now no time to lose. It is probably already too late.

Hi Claire,

my only knowledge of bloat is of a relative's Irish Setter many years ago which sadly died at an emergency vets :(  Thank God you were vigilant with Fagan and he has been successfully treated although I'm sure you'll be in shock at the severity of the procedure required.

Thinking of you, your mum and of course 'the boy' himself and wishing you all a speedy recovery from this,
God bless, Teri

Stress or a change in routine seems to be a big factor. I know of quite a few people whose dogs have bloated either when in kennels or if the dog has gone on holiday with them to a holiday cottage or the like.

Hopefully he'll be back and bouncing around before long! x

Thanks for these, very strange, his gums stayed pale throughout, he whimpered a little bit last night but wasnt restless at all and his stomach didnt begin to bloat until on the way to the vets.

Im guessing Fagan just didnt read the text book!

>Hopefully he'll be back and bouncing around before long! x

im sure he will be doing this way before its good for him to !!

Thanks for your good wishes, I feel very lucky to still have him and cant wait to give him a hug.  Ive always drummed into my mum about bloat because she looks after my two quite alot, especially Fagan when I take Alf to shows, she has a two page printout of symptoms etc which was why she was so concerned when he wasnt right Sunday morning.

I just cant believe he pulled out all the stops for me on Saturday, getting a placing in agility being a setter is a rarity, he got 12th out of 180 and he was probably feeling under the weather then.

> he pulled out all the stops for me on Saturday, getting a placing in agility being a setter is a rarity, he got 12th out of 180 and he was probably feeling under the weather then.

Fab result - just wait to see what he can do when he's back feeling on top of the world!  Agility fans watch out for Fagan :)

i hope fagan recovers ok claire

Glad it was caught in time and hope he makes a speedy recovery

I hope he makes a speedy recovery, and back to his agility soon.

I had a Newfie x St Bernard 5 years ago that displayed very similar signs to your Fagan, I took him to the vets and the vet told me there was nothing obviously wrong with him and to go home and make sure he had some rest! He got up the next morning fine and gave me no cause for concern.

6 months later the symptoms appeared again only this time accompanied by him trying to be sick , I rushed him straight to the vets , only this time he collapsed as we got to the surgery door, it took 5 of us to get him on a stretcher, he was taken straight to theatre but it was too late, he passed away before they could help him.

As you can imagine I am now GDV paranoid and any one of my dogs has only got to so much as wretch and I am watching them like a hawk! (and I have changed my vets)

It sounds as if you got Fagan the help he needed just in time. I wish him a speedy recovery xxx

> ACTIONS: CALL VET IMMEDIATELY - DOSE WITH ASILONE, GAVISCON OR OTHER BRAND. TRANSPORT your dog to the surgery WITHOUT DELAY. PHASE 1

>(This phase may last between 1-2 hours. It also may not - DONT DELAY)

>SYMPTOMS:
>1. Pacing, restless, panting and salivating.
>2. Unproductive attempts to vomit (every 10-20 mins).
>3. Abdomen exhibits fullness and beginning to enlarge. (This includes expansion of the front abdomen & rib cage) <

My old vet, (now retired), always told me if ever I was suspicious of my dog having bloat to dose with Milk of Magnesia at what you have described as stage 1. He said to give a tablespoonful.

So glad Fagan is on the road to recovery.
I lost my last dog to torsion, in her case I think it was a mixture of stress ,changes in routine and drinking too much to fast and possible a sensitivity to the medication

She had just returned from a major op for mouth cancer having been away for 5days. during the first 24hrs she developed bloat but although we rushed to the vet who operated immediately it was too late.
So pleased yours was a happyier story.

Sorry to hear about your dog.  Spoke to the vet tonight, he is still quite out of it but seems comfortable.  They have even done an ECG on him so he is in good hands.  She did say the next 24 - 48 hours are crucial so im still worried and doubt I will get much sleep tonight.

Fingers and toes crossed for you and your boy. Hope all goes well.

update ...... I went to visit Fagan last night in the vets, I knew it wouldnt be easy but I wasnt quite prepared for how poorly he would look, I was determined not to cry in front of him but I just couldnt help it, he looked so subdued and miserable :(

I sat in his kennel with him and had a chat, tried to get him to wag his tail but all he did was stare at me.  I took him some white fish down and he did eat a small helping of that followed by a huge burp which was a promising sign.  He has fluid on his chest from when he was bloated and he drank water which obviously wouldnt go down so had a bit of a cough and he was on a drip.

Vet called this morning and said she is happy with his progress and that he can come home tonight.  I know he isnt out of the woods yet but its promising that they are letting him come home, im sure he will perk up a bit more when he is in familiar surroundings.

Well done Claire for spotting so quickly he needed the vet the most important thing of all with bloat is time and the fact that you got him  immediate attention very probably saved his life. Bloats a horrible thing I hope he continues to make a good recovery and you and your family soon get over the shock as well.
Sharon

Hi Claire

poor Fagan and poor you  :(  I hadn't appreciated when posting a day or so ago that he was still so unwell.  I'm relieved to read that you may get him home tonight and have said a prayer that his recovery is full and fast.

I don't doubt he'll be more himself when he's home with 'mum' and you'll be happier too being able to dance attendance on him.

Get well soon Fagan, xxx
Teri :)

to be honest Teri I didnt appreciate how serious it was until I saw him and also did a bit more in depth research online.  I assumed as we had caught it in time he would be fine but apparantly up to 5 days post op its still critical and things can still go wrong, usually with the heart I believe.  The have done an ECG on him and his heart seems fine.

The scary thing is after his insurance with M&S went throught the roof I was considering cancelling but managed to find a cheaper one.  The new insurance 14 day no claim period was up on Saturday - he bloated on Sunday

How awful for you all.  I hope Fagan recovers and that he doesn't have another bout, and I hope you can convince your Mum that it is not her fault at all!

Crumbs Claire - a close call with the insurance   Must have someone 'Up There' keeping an eye on you ;)

I had overlapped with the old one so would have been covered but then I wouldnt have been able to swop over as it would have been pre-existing.

I did feel bad phoning and asking for a claim form so soon

Great news Claire, Hope that tail is wagging very very soon :-)

I really hope he is home soon, good luck

he is home now, crashed out on the new bed that I bought him :).  Had a bit of a stand off with Alf but both seem to have settled ok now.  He is eating well - and also trying to eat his stitches !!

I feel very lucky that I still have him, he is going to be one spoilt dog for a very long time.

> he is going to be one spoilt dog for a very long time

Bless him, wishing you both all the best.

Good heavens Claire, just seen this. So sorry Fagan has been so poorly, but relieved he's on the mend.

I know just what it's like dealing with bloat. Hope he continues to improve.

Dawn R.

Glad to hear he is doing well....I had a similar experince last year and luckily i got my girl to the vet quickly and she made a full recovery, but i look at her and think 'how lucky i am to still have her here with me', bloat is SO dangerous and SO unpredictable, there seems to be no answers for it and your mum should not feel bad about any of what happened it is NO-ONE's fault :)

Spoil him like mad...he deserves it!

x

Hi there,

I had a very similar experience with my Irish not long ago. It's far too detailed to list here, but I would like to let you know what happened, so please e-mail me at hooley@uprightsolutions.co.uk. I can then let you have a copy of the article I wrote about this experience. Hope that Fagan is continuing to improve. It's always good to share experiences at times like this, if nothing else it does give you support from those who have experienced the same thing at a much needed time.
Best wishes,
hooligans

Glad your boy is OK it a scary situation is it not. Had it with a puppy a few years ago. Thankfully although I had never seen bloat  I had heard some one else describe the hollow sound of the abdomen.Like a very taut drum I would now say. I phoned my vet and got pup there. I was amazed at the speed he deterioted he was flat in hardly any time at all. He had been playing in the garden just an hour before no symptoms, then suddenly became quiet and cuddly, to whining and unable to stand in less than an hour..
I hope your boy recovers as well as mine did. I am always extra watchful and very strict with him now.

the scary thing with Fagan was it started on the Sunday morning, he was restless and kept looking for somewhere cool to lie (he even dug up my mums flower bed ) and was constantly licking his nose along with heavy breathing.  Mum phoned me and I told her to take him to the vet, the only abnormality the vet found was his spleen was hard she gave him a pain killer and anti biotic injection and sent him home.  When I picked him up in the evening he started the retching but it was more just lying down and tensing up than proper retching.  I phoned the vet again with symptoms, she told me to call back if I was worried in the night and if not to bring him in for tests in the morning.  It wasnt until we were on our way to the vets that he started to bloat but it wasnt taut it was very soft so even when the vet saw it she wasnt sure but did take him straight up for an x-ray.  So Fagans wasnt quick at all it built up over at least one day possibly two.

I keep questioning whether the vet should have noticed straight away? the vet we saw at the weekend wasnt our usual vet, when we took him in she obviously conferred with our usual vet because it was her that phoned me and who did the surgery and who I have seen since.  just makes me wonder if our usual vet would have noticed the symptoms straight away, she said he didnt present in the normal way so maybe not but some of the symptoms were there, maybe I should have insisted straight away on an x-ray.  Just keeps going round in my head how things could have been alot worse.

When my boy had bloat he also tried to dig, I have since found out that this is a common occurence. My vet to, thought it was a ruptured spleen. I remember ringing the surgery after he had been there about an hour and the vet said they were treating an emergency road traffic accident that had just come in as a priority ! Luckily, though, when they finally x-rayed him on my insistence (I just had a feeling it was a torsion) they operated immediately. I cannot praise the vet highly enough, she clearly saved his life. I think in my boys case it was also stress that caused it. I had been away for a few days to look at a litter that he had just sired, up till that time I had never left him overnight before. Four years on he continued to do well and I will never leave him again. I think your lad is over the worst now and I hope he continues to do well.

My dog - an English setter - had this but it came on a lot quicker - he was getting on a bit and obviously had kidney or other problems that were making him drink too much too quickly - that was what caused it I am sure.  I thought that he was going to have a fit - which he did develop later as his health detiorated but grabbed the doggie medical book and looked up the symptoms.  I phoned the vet and told him and got my dog in as quickly as possible.  He was operated on and lived for over another year after that.  The one thing I made sure of after that was that I only left a small amount of water in his bowl so he couldn't gulp down too much at a time.  Luckily I wasn't working then so I could make sure he didn't run out completely.

I have heard that it can be down to drinking large amounts of water, Fagan isnt a dog that drinks alot at a time or eats particularly quickly I really think his had been coming on for a few days, he grumbled at my mum on the Friday which im sure is when he first started feeling pain, but he didnt show symptoms until the sunday.