I was told about this on an e-mail before!

Its auful! I cant watch the whole thing.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2391386.ece

there was a thread on this already but i think a mod took it away... it understandably raised some dramatic reactions.

Good response from the parents but to be honest although I think the person filming did the right thing I could not have watched for that length of time without marching up and relieving the girl of the dog.

The girl's behaviour is exceptionally disturbing because the dog is obviously submissive and the girl is not acting in anger.  Cruelty to animals is a strong indicator of potentially cruel adults.  The girl needs professional attention asap.

> Good response from the parents

i personally feel rather more than a grounding is in order for abusive behaviour...

> there was a thread on this already but i think a mod took it away... it understandably raised some dramatic reactions.

sorry I didnt know it had been posted already

of course you wouldn't if its gone! :) was just saying in case you got a message from admin etc

its really awful, you have to wonder what was going through her head.

Which presumably Kim is why  the Father had said prior to that, she would be talked to at length.
Remember also we only have the Sun reporters paraphrasing of what was said to go on... not enough for me to judge the parent's on. But certainly discussion with this child to ascertain her understanding of the seriousness of this incident and indeed what her motivation was, seem to me the most sensible first step.

> Remember also we only have the Sun reporters paraphrasing of what was said to go on... not enough for me to judge the parent's on

very true

> Which presumably Kim is why  the Father had said prior to that, she would be talked to at length.

yes but i still would have hoped for more of a reaction, but then of course such might not have been reported or indeed even decided on at the time of the article- ersonally if i was this childs parent i would be doing some serious thinking about how to deal with what is obviously a big problem.

I thought the response was a good one because firstly, the report seemed to indicate that the parents were genuinely shocked by her behaviour, she was being grounded so liberty removed, she would not be getting a puppy afterall (thank goodness) but indicates the parents realise this is a real problem and finally, he was going to talk to her which has to be the first step to understanding.

What reaction would you have wanted to see from a parent?

all of the above plus deciding on perhaps a course of counciling or having her spend time with animals in a controlled way. one to find out the reasons behind the behaviour, the other to help to stop it.

I think that's sensible but not what I would expect a parent to consider initially.

i suppose in the shock and distress it would not have occurred at once.

Might not occur at all.  Not everyone is familiar with the process of counselling plus there is still a lot of stigma attached to it.  The parents might not see this a child needing help, just a child needing a good talking to by themselves. 

fair point

edited to add, i would hope that there might be some legal intervention though to ensure she did have it followed up on.

It was me who originally posted and I did apologise in advance for any upset caused. I was surprised to see it had been removed, as although there were very different opinions, it is always interesting to see read other thoughts and opinions. I had posted just prior to it being removed and really hope that it was nothing I said that caused such offence to make the thread be removed.

> It was me who originally posted and I did apologise in advance for any upset caused.

I don't think you have anything to apologise for in posting the topic. Understandibly these sort of subjects bring out a lot of emotion which can really highlight the difference of opinions, the thread ended up going around in circles with the same debate in different words, I didn't get to see the final post(s) on the subject, but I expect it was an accumilation of factors rather than any 1 particular post.

> personally feel rather more than a grounding is in order for abusive behaviour...

i think the grounding was more to give the parents time to think of a plan to get their girl sorted out so it never crosses her mind to be so cruel again.i didn't see the posts after mine,but i can imagine what they would be like because of the high feeling.

I think the original got a bit heated and went of topic....

That made me cry thats horrible the poor innocent little doggi!! I am surprised it didnt go for her, i flaming would have!!! But then it would of been all the dogs fault wouldnt it!, She should be banned from owning dogs her whole life or at least for much of the forseeable future!!

What worries me is, how many dogs get put down after biting a child when we can not know for shore if that child had provoked it by being cruel.? If that dog had bit her, You can bet she would not have told anyone why, and that poor dog may have been destroyed, there should be a law that no child be left alone with a dog, not so much for the child's sake but for the dog.

I feel terrible for this poor poor dog (and it's owner)... At least the girl was caught, if not a little late as apparently this was not her first attack on this dog!! The reason given by the person recording the attack was that she/he had witnessed the girl attacking the dog before and wanted to get evidence.

This is horrific and undeniably cruel and not to mention intentional attack on an innocent creature. Unprovoked and completely unecessary. This child is in need psychological help immediately. Yes there is a stigma surrounding sending your child to a psychologist or counsellor, but surely there would be more stigma attatched to this family if the don't have this girl assessed? Who knows who will be her next victim. If she gets the help she clearly needs now, then hopefully this will be the end of her abuse towards others.

Cure the child, save the adult.

>Yes there is a stigma surrounding sending your child to a psychologist or counsellor, but surely there would be more stigma attatched to this family if the don't have this girl assessed?

Be careful you don't take my words out of context. I did not say that she shouldn't have counselling because of the stigma.  Because of stigma attached to counselling people tend to shun the idea, this is not to say that the child doesn't need psychological help, but that it would probably have to be suggested by outside influences.

As far as I am aware parents do not generally ask for help from child psychologists, how would they know how or when to? 

> how would they know how or when to? 

the GP

how would they know how or when to? 

the GP

Yes if they had acknowledged the child had problems and thought about going to the GP but not that many people would take that step and would instead try and solve the problem on their own rather than admit there was a real problem

Yes, also the school, but do most parents know?  I don't think they do.

> but not that many people would take that step and would instead try and solve the problem on their own rather than admit there was a real problem

i suppose, but then i would hope that a child being so brutal to an animal would flag as a problem to most parents

Not necesarily if the parents are the ones that have been a role model and the child is doing as they have learnt. Also if the parents were from the 'old school' of dog training then even less likely so.

> but do most parents know?  I don't think they do.

i don't know if most families would but i know a few people who ended up getting help with things as kids for various reasons- depression, coping with a divorce or death etc. as well as just dealing with behavioural issues. it was not uncommon.

i don't think that clinical help is anywhere near the stigma that it used to be, its appeared in popular culture to the extent now that its nearly fashionable and schools etc are far more switched on about this kind of intervention these days.

> Not necesarily if the parents are the ones that have been a role model and the child is doing as they have learnt. Also if the parents were from the 'old school' of dog training then even less likely so.

this is also why i would hope there might be some outside intervention after such an incident

this is also why i would hope there might be some outside intervention after such an incident
Any likely prosecution would mean a ban from owning dogs and would not include a rehabilitaion course/therapy as part of the sentence in the majority of the cases I would suspect.

> Be careful you don't take my words out of context. I did not say that she shouldn't have counselling because of the stigma.  Because of stigma attached to counselling people tend to shun the idea, this is not to say that the child doesn't need psychological help, but that it would probably have to be suggested by outside influences.

Hi CherylS... yes I understood what you meant, I didn't take your words out of context. I totally agree with you. It's about time the 'stigma' was removed as unfortunately due to this there are many children out there that have now grown into, lets say, 'undesirables', that could have been helped as kids and become better adults because of it.

Such a shame.

I just hope this girl does get the help she needs and soon!!

There are many avenues parents are 'encouraged' to go through with troubled children. Most schools have a visiting educational psychologist that the teachers can recommend/refer children to. There are government run groups that have off-site centres that are run in conjunction with local schools that help children with emotional problems. And this is all before a GP has been involved. Unfortunately this is all well and good, but the parents have to be open to it and the teachers have to realise there is a problem. Otherwise it is completely up to the parents and there lies a problem. One would hope that after viewing that video the parents will realise they have a serious problem on their hands.

>i don't think that clinical help is anywhere near the stigma that it used to be, its appeared in popular culture to the extent now that its nearly fashionable and schools etc are far more switched on about this kind of intervention these days.

I think you'll find that some schools are reluctant to appoint psychologists because of the costs and some GPs are the same.  Much cheaper to pop a pill than refer to a psychologist although I do think that things are improving slowly but it seems much depends upon where you live.

Getting back to the OP, parents may not equate bad behaviour with psychological problems.  The problems this child has has little to do with the dog itself.

makes you wonder how many kids there are out there struggling with their lives and taking it out on defenceless others.i'm on the side of psychiatric assessment for this girl,as those who have knowledge of the original thread will know.there often isn't the community feeling that there once was when every adult in a neighbourhood would keep an eye on what the local children were up to and be able to reprimand them for bad behaviour well before it got out of hand.the threat of telling a parent was enough to stop us in our tracks.unfortunately life's not like that anymore and there seems little or no restraint in many people's  behaviour and a woeful lack in accepting responsibility.there should be books than can be read at home or in class,starting at the earliest possible age,how wonderful it is to care about others,how wonderful it is to care for animals and how nobody likes people who hurt animals or humans.kids want to be liked so the thought that they wouldn't be might make those who have such thoughts in their mind,think again.these books could also explain about telling a parent or other adult how to say how they are feeling,weather sad or jealous or angry etc.there are some fantastic writers for children who could make it all real for them.maybe i'm being simplistic,but as part of a bigger plan it couldn't do any harm.