hi all. i went to view a litter of pups yesterday whose info i got from a well known internet (e***z) and was appalled when i got there.
He had 5 litters, all in 5 seperate pens - and when i counted them all up i made 31 pups. I asked if they were all seperate litters he said yes, and that they were divided accordingly. They all had plenty of food, water and slept in sawdust bedding - no soiling or wees so i assume he had just cleaned cos it cant be easy to keep them all clean surely??
I asked if could see mum, he said the mothers were not near by at the mo, although i expected them to be (i didnt know there was so many) as i called him in the morn and he said come by in the eve. This struck alarm bells, as surely mum would be close, even if they were worked and esp if they were expecting visitors.
I asked how old the pups were, he said one litter was nearly 9 weeks old (the biggest) and the rest were 8 - all ready to go and up to date with 1st jab and worming etc.
However 2 litters were half the size (literally) than the other litters. We had a look at them, My OH took a closer look and said lets go, as many of the pups,well you could feel the ribs and bones at (not sure correct term - top by the stump of tail) and that we weren't getting one from him. The size of many really upset me, my other half said he thought some were possibly 5-6 weeks. He said they've probably not been jabbed or wormed either. With that one of the pups had a poo, and it was extrememly loose, and you could see the worms moving about in the stools.
We went to leave, and said we weren't interested. He asked why, my other half said we didn't want a pup from dodgy circumstances. Bloke rolled his eyes, swore and told us to leave.
It really shocked me. Can i report him to the internet site? or to the RSPCA? Or won't they do anything?

That is awful!

Report him to both, if they are thin and riddled with worms the RSPCA should be able to do something....THOUGH I DONT HAVE TOO MUCH FAITH IN THEM...SORRY

Let me know what happens....oh those poor little mites, and god knows what condition the poor mothers were in :( :( :(

Well with five litters he would certainly require to have a breeders License (check with and report to the Local Authority), or if as I suspect he is a dealer then eh would also/or require a Pet shop License.  Also the Inland Revenue may be interested, as if he has this many litters at one time then it is likely he has many more over the year and may be making enough to pay taxes.

Hitting these kind of outfits in the pocket is the best policy.  they will either not find it profitable to continue or may be made to improve their standards, though sadly commercial breeding is perfectly legal, and as long as standards of care are adequate and the premises able to be licensed eh will probably carry on, albeit with sanction and knowledge of the relevant authorities.

Well done for walking away, if more people did so this kind of puppy producer/dealer would cease their activities if they couldn't find a market.

Sounds like a dealer if there were no mothers about. To be allowed to sell pups like that he needs a pet shop license, so report him to the local council -if he hasn't GOT a pet shop licence they can at least get him for that. Plus that anyone who has more than 4 litters a year must have a breeding licence, so there's that as well -again this is council business.

Snap Barbara you type faster than me. :)

Definitely sounds like a dealer, glad you left without taking one as people feeling sorry for them is what they rely on!

And I believe it's illegal to sell puppies less than 8 weeks, so if your OH thinks they were younger, then do tell the authorities that you report them to.

thanks for your quick replies.
I called the RSPCA as soon as i wrote this thread - i thought i had nothing to lose.
They are looking into it as they have said it def does not seem right. But like others i don't hold much faith, but i've done what i can by calling the 24 hour line.
I've also reported it to E***z, sent them an email, so hopefully they'll at least stop his ads.
I'll call the local council on Monday and see what they say. I'm not sure about the Inland Rev as he was charging between £150-£250 on pups depending on the colours. But will also call them too to see what they make of it, although not sure how much money he can make without having to declare. I do know though that he had a litter/s in Dec as we were going to look, but then took on a whippet pup.
I am leaning towards the idea he had plenty of litters then too, as he never said on the phone that he had more than 1 yesterday.
I was tempted to have a pup to get at least one out of there, but if i had he can always breed more. Also i didn't want to hand over our hard earned cash to someone like him, esp after reading things and seeing things on tele, i.e rogue traders etc.

I'll report back when i've contacted other authorities, and if i hear from anyone regarding it.

Definitely sounds like a dealer, glad you left without taking one as people feeling sorry for them is what they rely on!


Exactly what i thought. i really wanted to do something, but i no the best i can do is walk away, report them and look for a decent responsible breeder for a new pup


And I believe it's illegal to sell puppies less than 8 weeks, so if your OH thinks they were younger, then do tell the authorities that you report them to.

I have told the advertising website, and the RSPCA this, so hopefully they can do something. Although of course we have no proof of age. - not sure whether RSPCA / vet could determine this or not though

Well done, if everyone did this we'd soon shut these places down.

Poor pups and poor Dams, bless so upsetting. :-(

>I believe it's illegal to sell puppies less than 8 weeks

It's illegal for a licenced breeder to sell puppies to the public at less than 8 weeks (they can sell to petshops at younger than that). There are no legal restrictions on the age that a non-licenced breeder can sell them.

Yes, I should have said licenced breeder - I just assumed automatically that as he had 5 litters he should be a licenced breeder.

You're right, he certainly should be licenced - it'd be worth checking with the council.

the website will do nothing.  I have asked them to remove advertisements because of same circumstances and unless they get contacted by RSPCA or trading standards they just won't do it.  It really is awful.  Poor little things.

Kingdom

thanks for all the replies

i think i may have been a little hasty, i'm not sure.... or perhaps the RSPCA are fobbing me off... I dunno.  The RSPCA called me back yesterday, they have been to visit him (they know of him already). He has a license to have so many pups and whenever they visit he has kept within his standards set by council.
So maybe i was wrong? I dunno. It just still doesn't feel right.
The bloke gets the puppies from Wales apparently and sells them on. The RSPCA told me this, whilst there not happy, they cant do anything except keep an eye on it.
And since the pups are in good condition (food, water, heat etc) and he's sticking to his license they cant do anything. He is adament he only gets pups from certain people in Wales, not 'dodgy' ones. So they won't help.
I had the following email back from E***Z:

From: E***Z
Sent: 18/04/2009 11:39:49
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We will be looking itno this. However if you are worried about this i suggest that you contact your local authorities and rspca so they can make a detailed enquiry.
Kind regards,
**************

According to a friend who has also complained to the site (regarding a diff matter), they won't do nothing about it, unless they are told to by an authority, i.e TS, or RSPCA.
So i've hit a brick wall it sounds.
Am glad i didn't get a pup, even if he is all legal and above board, i want to see at least the mother and possibly father.
Thanks for the help anyway guys!
Claire