Hi

A bitch i sold as pet only (had endorsements on) she hadnt got an undershot jaw so they were never going to be lifted. The original owners sold her on but failed to mention (methinks intentionally) that she had endorsements on and they were not going to be lifted. He was actually quite suprised when i told him, after asking what endorsements were and what they mean! He is now asking me to lift them to which i have said no because of above. Im expecting no more contact from these or a quite rude reply. Can they get around this as the original agreement wasnt with them? Or is it there fault that they didnt read her papers, buyer beware and tough. They love her as a family pet so it shouldnt make any difference.

Only the person who put the endorsement in place, ie the breeder can lift the endorsement. NO-ONE else can do so.

Since no contract was signed by the person now owning the dog, they can request KC to lift endorsements..

Its not just the breeder who can place an endorsement, the registered owner of the dog can place an endorsement on the pedigree before re-homing.. then, if lifting endorsement is required.. its they who can lift it.. not the breeder..

I could be wrong but I think there is a loop hole when the dog is sold on and the new owner was not aware of the endorsements that the KC can lift them - im sure ive read it somewhere.

responded at the same time Kayc :)

Should i forward them a copy of my agreement? Since they are not the registered owners as she is still registered in my name and they have also misplaced her papers. So if they disagree i guess i wont pass the papers on then!

If her ownership hasn't been transferred out of your name then I very much doubt the KC could lift the endorsements without your permission.

From the KC website:
Written confirmation must be obtained from the new owner at the time of sale to state that they have been made aware of any proposed endorsements, even if the endorsed registration certificate is given at the time of sale. In the event of a dispute where such evidence exists, the Kennel Club would normally decide in favour of the vendor's endorsements being retained. Conversely, in the absence of such written evidence, the Kennel Club would normally decide in favour of the purchaser and lift the endorsement.  However, this would only apply in cases where a dog is transferred from the person who placed the endorsement to a new ownership.

The contract would not be between you and them.. since a third party was involved, and they did not sign a contract.. If the dog is still registered in your name.. I doubt if the KC would get involved.. and lift them without your approval.. although I believe it has happened in the past.. did you know the dog was being sold on ?

No i didnt, i found an ad selling her afew weeks after she left me. The 1st owner had 2 adult dogues and said to the new buyer that they were the parents.  Guess he should have cross referenced papers too. As she is still registered in my name i suppose he cant do anything. But after this do i forward on an agreement to be signed and sent back to me then ill allow him the papers but after i have a contract with him to say that he agrees and he knows they cant be lifted.

It cant do any harm to forward on a contract, he may sign, he may not.. but if you still have dog in your name, at least you know he cant register any pups.. if he decides to breed from her..

It would certainly be in your girls best interests if you kept in contact, and hopefully on good terms.. and at least you know where your pup is now.

Only problem I can see, is that the person you sold the pup to, finds the papers and passes them on..then the KC can lift endorsements without your consent

He had the papers but he has lost them. Dont think he is too up on all this knowledge and now he knows i have said no he shouldnt persue it. I would like to stay in touch but i also dont want her bred from even more. Betterment of the breed and all that, i dont think hed know how to rear a litter responsibly as hes never done it before and since she isnt breed quality and ive not allowed them to be lifted if he still wants to breed from her we know its only for the money.

sorry, I thought you meant the original purchasers had lost them..

I was under the impression that no matter what circumstances the only person who can lift them is them is the person who put the endorsement on there(in normal circumstances)

It should be but again loopholes and ways to get around things. Breeders do there best to protect puppies. Have heard of tube tying done in austrailia. Whats people opinions on this?

I believe the KC have closed that one.

When you sold the pup, wasn't there an agreement that she came back to you if ever they found that they couldn't keep her?

To my knowledge the KC are still lifting endorsements in this sort of circumstance EVEN when a buyer admits in writing they knew about the endorsements they lift them because there's no signature on a piece of paper which later mysteriously turns up at the new owners home allegedly by mistake.

Brainless is right, IF the endorsements were placed correctly in the first place with the original buyer signing a contract etc then a second buyer cannot lift them...

This loop hole has been closed and it has it on the registration forms now.. I read it recently..

Yep

Of course there was an agreement she came back to me! But they didnt tell me they were selling her and they also wouldnt tell me the new owners details. I found out myself through investigation.

LouiseDDB, what dedication you have, truly!  I am sorry you are having such a hard time right now, you must have such a sense of betrayal with regards the previous owner.  But at least you have found her now and hopefully this new chap will be willing to learn what it takes to be a good dog owner.  So many breeders must be heartbroken when they can't trace their puppies after the previous owner selling them on :-(

I was furious and said a few unfriendly words to them on the phone. I hope it never happens to me again as it makes you sick to the pit of your stomach. We all learn from mistakes and ill be extra vigilant in the future. Glad i endorsed them all

this happened to me too.i called an owner to arrange a visit and she told me due to me not being in contact she couldnt cope and sold the puppy on.i was furious and dead upset.the new owner wont talk to me as the origianl owner filled her head with things like i wasnt helpful at all.THIS WOMAN ONLY ONCE CONTACTED ME FOR HELP and i said id go and collect the puppy b ut said she wanted to try for another week.when i called again she'd SOLD her.(she clearly wanted cash back that she'd paid out)
i have no contat with this pup and its devistating
but this happens and you can only do your best to do the right thing.
I endorsed all my puppies too.and am glad the loop hole has been binned.i hope all works out ok for you and pup.x