Hi All
This is my first post , although i have been an avid lurker for a very long time. I need some advice regarding my shepherd bitch puppy. I have an 18 week old shep (Breeze)and a nearly 3 year old male shepherd (he is her father), recently everytime i go to stroke my boy she runs over and bites him and won't leave him alone until he leaves and then she sits there wanting me to stroke her whilst my boy sulks in the corner, now i don't want to make the problem worse by doing the wrong thing, so should i put her out and continue to stroke him and then allow her back in? i have tried making her sit and wait but she is so over the top with this that she can't sit still. If she is asleep next to me on the sofa and he comes over for a cuddle she growls at him and lunges and he backs away. What is the best way for me to handle this??
My boy rarely tells her off for anything and i don't want to step in and make matters worse, surely she is too young to be bossing him about??

Also for the last 3 nights she has been doing something i really don't understand, she gets her blankets and starts digging at them and when she gets them into a pile she wee's on them and walks away and sleeps somewhere else, what does this mean??

Look forward to hearing your advice and getting to know you all ;-)

Your boy's reaction sounds quite normal as does your puppy, adults allow puppies an enormous amount of what we perceive to be bad behaviour-it's called learning ;-) & a dog will always allow a bitch puppy more than a dog puppy. I always try to give all my dogs their own time & when a puppy is around the adults time are when the puppy is asleep
.

As to the weeing on her blankets never had a dog or bitch do that at such a young age

Thank you for your reply Moonmaiden and for putting my mind at rest. I appreciate that it is normal but just wondered whether i should intervene at any point or just let them sort it out between themselves?
As for the wee'ing on the blankets i am completely stumped ?!

Although bitches are notorious for being the boss in the household, at her age I'd still be wanting better manners from her. How much one-to-one time does your older male get with you, when the upstart's out of the way? The growling at the other dog while she's on the sofa is something I wouldn't tolerate - she'd be off that sofa before she knew which way was up, and she wouldn't be allowed back up for some days or weeks. No dog of mine takes liberties when they're in 'human space'!

Thanks Jeangenie, my boy gets lots of one to one time away from her, i walk them seperately, i take him to training and agility on his own and we have lots of 'special' time together and i do the same with her - puppy class, walks on her own etc and small training sessions through out the day etc.

That's what i was after, should i tell her off when she does the lunging on the sofa as he simply won't tell her, she even nudged him away from his food this morning, so i removed her from the room. I am working on her manners, ie sitting before she gets stroked etc but when it comes to me stroking him, its like she can't quite contain her need to be in on the act.

Any ideas on the wee situation, i have never had a youngster do that, i even thought she was going to cock her leg at one point! she is not very girlie, bless her ;-)

Older males, especially good-natured ones, will often let a youngster walk all over them! The trouble is that they young one then believes that's the way to behave with every dog, and will sooner or later get a very rude awakening. I personally prefer to avoid that (vet's bills can be very expensive, and the 'lesson' is bound to happen out of hours!) so I'd (rightly or wrongly) back up your older dog's status and get a bit stricter with Little Miss Bossyboots! So the lunging on the sofa wouldn't happen, because she wouldn't even be on the sofa to begin with.

The weeing on the bedding might possibly be due to insecurity at being allowed so much rank so young - she's not sure how to cope. Does she sleep in a crate?

Like Jeangenie I wouldn't tolerate that sofa nonsense either.  I'd also be inclined to remove all sofa privileges until she's learnt some manners.  It's easier to manage the "woohoo, look at me, I'm a puppy, ya ya" stuff if you don't also have to contend with the height issues.

As you say, lots of 1:1 time is the key but she must also learn to accept that he can have hugs too!

My youngster is still a bit inclined to muscle in on my time with the older dog, if I'm mindlessly twiddling ears whilst I'm on the PC for instance I suddenly realise I'm stroking a different, taller and younger, dog!!

If he can't get my attention he'll start pecking at Finn so I tend to ask him to back off and will say 'mine'.  I also say 'OK finished' to one dog then cue the next 'OK your turn'.  We still have looney moments after breakfast and before dinner when he'll bounce around like Tigger and peck at the older dog but if it's ok with Finn it's ok with me and I'll separate them if Finn starts looking at bit put upon.  Most older dogs will tolerate quite a lot but take your cues from your boy and give him regular time out with baby gates; that way he'll be restored and ready for the next round! :)

like the others have said you cannot tolerate this. I have gsds and the bitchs tend to be very dominant if you allow them to be. I would stop letting her on chairs or beds as this gives her more dominance. If she lunges or growls at your other dog i would quickly and sharply remove her from the room as this cannot be allowed to progress to anything more.
As for the weeing on the bed- i believe this is dominance- you will probably find that when her dominant behaviour is toned down she will stop weeing on her bed.

ETA. make sure at food times your male is given his food first and when going through doors etc, make sure that your male goes through before your bitch.

Great, thanks thats a big help.
Jeangenie, she doesn't sleep in a crate, she sleeps in the kitchen, the blanket that she wee's on is not her bedding, its a blanket that is always down on the living room floor for either of them to sleep on.

May i also ask, whilst i have your attention lol, would it make any difference that she was the only bitch from a large litter - 1 bitch - 11 males?? would that make her more boyish??

Thanks for your help guys

Thanks for your reply Gwerty, i must admit i have never been a follower of the 'dominance theory', regarding doorways and being allowed on the sofa etc, all of my dogs (i have owned 5 sheps) have always been allowed on the sofa and i have never had a problem with any of them. Surely this is more puppy bad manners than anything else? Although obviously i do not want it to continue.

Bearing in mind that my boy is her father i think i just assumed that she would share the very laid back attitude that he does, but obviously not!

It sounds like puppy manners - or lack of them - to me too :)

Like JG I wouldn't permit the pup to snarl, snap, growl or lunge from the sofa at your other dog - she'd be off the setee pronto LOL.  My dogs share the furniture too and my youngest occasionally gets bolshy with the others (his mum and older sister) if he's the one nearest me or my OH but he gets shoved off to their level (although he's now bigger than them anyway!) and it puts paid to his antics :)

As to whether letting dogs preceed us through doors etc works - I've never bought into dog -v- human dominance.  I think querty was referring to allowing the older dog through doors etc before the pup but not sure.  Evene if that were the case TBH I can't see that making any difference either as over time the two dogs will accept hierarchy in various situations and IME they are varied, no obvious top dog in all circumstances.

She's on licence for now with the adult - the licence will only last so long and he'll put her in her place, hopefully before she extends this behaviour to meeting strange dogs out of doors.  I'd give her some time out while your male enjoys some peaceful cuddles - and you too :)  Pups are fun but they're very hard work too and with other dog(s) around it makes it even more difficult but essential that the pup doesn't take up all of your time.

HTH, Teri :)

>the blanket that she wee's on is not her bedding, its a blanket that is always down on the living room floor for either of them to sleep on.

Then what I'd do is watch her like a hawk and when she starts digging at the blanket tell her "No!" and remove her from it.

>would it make any difference that she was the only bitch from a large litter - 1 bitch - 11 males?? would that make her more boyish??

There's a theory that being bathed in testosterone while in the womb might have a masculinising effect, I had a bitch who was the only girl in her litter (6 brothers) and she was very sweet and feminine, so I'm not convinced!

Blimey, you could have been writing about my situation. I too have a daughter of my boy. She takes such liberties with him but she is not nearly as bad with the girls. She too pushes in when we are having cuddles, she used to wee on bedding sometimes (never had that before). However, she has never growled and that is the main issue in my opinion, that,  I most certainly would jump on. Funnily enough, just as you describe, my boy is such a laid back creature I just wonder if they know who is the soft target. She is now six months old and the weeing has stopped, so yesm, there is hope. I just push her back when she is muscling in on his cuddle time but in the main I try to let them sort themselves out except when i think she is being too rough, then I put a stop to the little madam.

Just wanted to add regarding the sofa situation, I had the same prob with my clumber pup, although height didn't seem to have much to do with it as it was the bullmastiff he kept lunging at. I pushed him off and back to the floor when it happened and it gradually it happened less and less, and now he's six months it doesn't happen, although you can see him think about it, lol!!

Hi Breeze- I have had this with German Shepherd bitches in the past.
It sounds like she is resource guarding you and this is what my bitch was doing too. Mine would also bark for me to come back if I went out- like an overprotective mother.
Re the blanket- you state it is communal for the dogs- that is your view- her view appears to be that it is hers and she is clearly scent marking it to let others know.

I eventually got my girl fixed by following Jan Fennls methods and reinforcing pack leadership - I even pretended to eat some fo her kibble before each meal- It worked although it took 3 - 4 months to fully change. Once she realised I was the boss she didn't feel the need to guard me and stopped scenting as she accepted I was in charge.

Good luck

AM

> I eventually got my girl fixed by following Jan Fennls methods and reinforcing pack leadership - I even pretended to eat some fo her kibble before each meal- It worked although it took 3 - 4 months to fully change. Once she realised I was the boss she didn't feel the need to guard me and stopped scenting as she accepted I was in charge.

Why would you pretend to eat her food before you give her any ?  You are not trying to emulate wolf pack behaviour are you ? In wolf packs the lowest ranking in the pack always get to eat first(ie the puppies & nannies that guard them) after hunting so you are actually promoting your dog to pack leader if you believe that dog behaviour is linked to wolf behaviour

Not only do I sincerely wish this whole 'pack leader' nonsense or 'dog on human dominance' rubbish had never raised their ugly heads for the reasons of being flawed theories but especially because now every normal puppy and juvenile behaviour is eyed suspiciously and fearfully :(

30 years ago, even only 20, puppies growling, snapping, being bolshy and basically just behaving like the uneducated babies that they still are at these tender ages were treated as just that - 'baby animals' needing to learn, to be taught, cajoled and eventually moulded into a well behaved adult, without any panic attached to what are entirely natural phases in the early months and then again in the 'teenage' stages.

How come all those dogs of our childhoods didn't put the fear of death into their families, neighbours, local bobby or postman?  Perhaps because they were seen for and treated as what they were instead of some scheming, wiley, domineering and dangerous threat to the very existence of the human race ....