I met a person today who has a boxer puppy. The puppy is approx 3/4 months old and its tail has been docked. I asked the owner why he had no tail and she said she didnt want one with a tail as she prefered the tails docked. I mentioned that it was illegal and she said that the puppy was bred by a millionaire and he didnt give a **** and that he wanted the puppies tails docked. The puppy was born and bred in the UK. I was appauled that this has happened and had to walk away. How does this person stand if someone reported her having a docked puppy knowingly. I dont mean that i could report her but I feel strongly about this.

I was speaking to someone lately who has a rottie pup that was bought in England and it has apparently been docked.  she said the law only applied in scotland.  I didn't bother to argue as she didn't want to hear it.  Some people eh?

The person that carried out the docking would be the one prosectued, not the owner, so even of the owner knows it is illegal they won't be prosecuted (I think :))

You are assuming that the docking was carried out illegally. It could have been performed legally with the necessary documentation.

Puppies from certain working dogs may be docked if evidence is provided to the vet that it is likely to be worked in connection with law enforcement, activities of Her Majesty's Armed Forces, emergency rescue, lawful pest control, or the lawful shooting of animals.  It is accepted that in a litter, not all puppies docked will be found suitable for work.

> Puppies from certain working dogs may be docked if evidence is provided to the vet that it is likely to be worked in connection with law enforcement, activities of Her Majesty's Armed Forces, emergency rescue, lawful pest control, or the lawful shooting of animals.

What...in boxers?  Unlikely to say the least.

I known of a Boxer litter born recently who were born docked, or bob tailed!

They can only be born Bobbed if they are carrying the bob-tail gene (deliberately introduced in a very small number of lines). It is very obvious if a dog was born bobbed or was later docked because of the shape of the tail end.

might have this wrong but read cant see boxers rottis etc in this list. It says spaniels Terriers and Hunt point retreve.
7.2 Certified working dogs must be of one of the following types: 'Spaniels', 'Terriers' or 'Hunt Point Retrieve Breeds'. The latter is intended to include the breeds below but the list is not exhaustive, and allows for the addition of traditionally docked breeds of hunt point retrieve dogs which are new to England.
Bracco Italiano;
Brittany;
German long-haired pointer;
German short-haired pointer;
German wire-haired pointer;
Hungarian vizsla;
Hungarian wire-haired vizsla;
Italian Spinone;
Korthals Griffon;
Large Munsterlander;
Pudel Pointer;
Slovakian Rough Haired Pointer;
Slovakian Wire Haired Pointer;
Small Munsterlander;
Spanish Water-dog;
Weimaraner.
7.3 It remains the prerogative of a veterinary surgeon as to whether he chooses to dock a dog's tail or not. Vets are encouraged to dock the puppy's tail and microchip them at the same time where they feel this is feasible.
7.4 A dog may be docked if evidence is provided that it is likely to be worked in connection with law enforcement, activities of Her Majesty's Armed Forces, emergency rescue, lawful pest control, or the lawful shooting of animals.

And I thought the forces etc have their own breding programme.

Have seen a lot that people say have come in from Eire, where there isnt a docking ban believe

Are you sure the pups were born in england? as daftcockers is right, a lot of people are sending pregnant bitches over to Ireland to whelp and dock the pups tails and sending them back over to the UK to sell, also puppyfarms are sending docked dogs over as well. There are tones of adverts online for legally docked dobes, rottis and boxers from Ireland.

Even pups born in England are taken to Eire and then bought back in the 24 hours.

Although I understand that's illegal too (as it is in Scotland where docking is totally banned - you can't take pups across the border into England to be docked).

> Even pups born in England are taken to Eire and then bought back in the 24 hours.

Or they say they have. :-(

bainespauline@anti-dockingalliance.co.uk

Might be a good idea to let Pauline at above email, know the details. Something might be able to be done about the breeder if they were done illegally.
Anne

Yeah, it's amazing how many Boxers are natural bobtails these days and that full litters are being born.  As the owner of a bobtailed breed I find this amazing as in all my litter over 16 year only half if that have been born with short tails, most of them are born full tailed.  Also my litter seem smaller so wonder if it's due to the gene that some short tails don't survive to full term.

As I say it totally amazes me how many full litters of Boxers are being born!

I only got 2 in my litter of 7...but have known 5 in a litter of 6 be bobs.
You can feel the tail end to know that it's a bob.

So I do have one that I own that is vet certificated.

You only have to check pedigree's to see if they do have the bobtail gene there or not.
Would imagine that there's not any that won't have the well known Boxer bobtail lineage off the 5th generation pedigrees
just yet! ;) Unless of coure the rotters have falsified pedigree info...

I think you will find that if you claim your puppies are born tailless then a vet has to certify this with a certain time of the puppies being born.

At our ringcraft class we have 3 young boxers all from the same litter, 2 with full tails and 1 with at very short tail but longer than a docked tail. This pup was born like this and the owners have paperwork from their vet to say this.

I didn't see the Boxers at Crufts but were there any in the show ring with tails? And were any picked for places? x

> I didn't see the Boxers at Crufts but were there any in the show ring with tails? And were any picked for places? x

Yep right up to junior & some in yearling had tails, it seems to have been accepted & people are just getting on with it, a boxer's still a boxer tail or not, they just have a bit more to wag lol

Re. the feel of the end of the tails again can't agree there.  Some of my short tails have a really fleshy pad to the end, the one I have now has a spike to the end, so all very different again.

It intrigues me, I've seen a few boxers with tails but not to fuss or anything so therefore haven't inspected any or had chance to ask before. Our boxers have their tails docked, they are both 8 years old. At the end you can see the scar if you look, surely a naturely born docked boxer won't have the scar? :)

We have the bobtail gene in schips and are voting this time to ban bobtail x bobtail matings because its a problem gene if  bobtail parents are used ie spina bifida type issues.  Bruce Cattanch worked with the bobtail gene in boxers and surmised the homozygos form was fatal due to the reduced litter numbers.

Re the end of tails - the bobtail tail feels different to that of a docked tail though and that is the point that
I am trying to make. :)

What I am trying to make Boxacrazy and not getting at you is that they don't all feel the same so again not an easy way to show that a dog is a natural bobtail or not.

We have the bobtail gene in schips and are voting this time to ban bobtail x bobtail matings because its a problem gene if  bobtail parents are used ie spina bifida type issues.  Bruce Cattanch worked with the bobtail gene in boxers and surmised the homozygos form was fatal due to the reduced litter numbers.

This is why I'm also shocked that such big litters in Boxers are being born when the specialist has even stated the above.  We don't do bobtail - bobtail breeding in our breeder but even so the bobtail to long tails don't produce that big a litter.

I have read in one of the dog papers where a lady in wales took her dogs to Ireland had them docked
came back to wales.
then she advertised them on the web.
She was prosecuted for illegally docking pups and found guilty.
Judge said in his summing up her intention was to break the law! So there what you will about that.