My WSH Spike is still only a baby .. he's 9 month old.. I was thinking about, when he's 2 years, studding him.. I have a friend who has a WSH bitch, she's 2 years old now.. But doesn't have any papers.. Spike Has Dreamcoats in his line.. I was just wondering, Is that the right age to stud him? And if I wanted to take it further than my friend's bitch, how would I do that??? I know you can probably tell I'm very very naive, I've never done anything like this before, it would help if you could tell me what kind of tests I need to have done on him first and anything else I need to know... Thanx so much!!

Welcome to the forum :-)

What is a WSH?

I thought Dreamcoat were GSD?

Anyway, to get you started, take a look at the following link:

Breeding: including considerations for Stud Dogs.

Ty and WSH = White German Shepherd, Dreamcoats are GSH... :)

Shouldn't it be WGSD then ;-)

Probably, But I'm Lazy... ;)

Leigh
the next part of the article on genetics, would be useful to post on the cross bred is better questions. It explains hybrid vigor, and why these crosses should not go on to br bred from, as it is then lost etc.

It would be worth reading the whole page that Leigh has linked, including why you should breed, chosing complementary mates, researching pedigrees, and not just the piece about stud dogs. :D

I will change my link ;-)

Hi WSH, Please take my posting as trying to be helpful, not having a knock at you, as we all had to start somewhere. Before I go any further let me just assure you that I love long coated white GSDs, so my post is nothing personal, but please think very long and carefully before you decide to go ahead with your plan. As you surely know GSDs are one of THE most popular breeds. They already have a big rescue problem and finding GOOD homes for all the GSDs born cannot be easy. Whie long haired GSDs are an acquired taste and frowned on by the GSD purists , the reason being too long to go into on this board. The correct terminology is to "use your dog at stud" not "stud him". There are so many things to be taken into account before starting on this venture. First and most important( in my opinion) is temprement. Have both your boy and your friends bitch, got totally impeccable temprements? In this breed it is essential. Are they from good blood lines? Have either got ny outstanding faults? They MUST both be hip scored and pass with flying colours. Will your boy be tested for heamophilia(sp)? As you are planning to sell to the pet market, his lack of KC papers will probably not matter too much, but I can assure you that nobody will want to use him at stud, unless they only want to breed white long haired GSDs. Rearing pups can be a very expensive and heartbreaking buisness, not applicable to you I know, as the owner of the male, but in this capacity you also have a committment to the pups life long well being. I can understand that you love your boy, and because of this would like to have something to keep related to him, but in my opinion, under the circumstances, you really would be better off to buy in a close relative, when he is a bit older. Please do not be hurt by the replies you are likely to recieve, we are all true dog lovers on this board, and try to think ahead, whenever possible.

Phillipa...you are SO tactful......are you sure we are related??????;)

Hi there,

If you want to put your dog to stud I would do it before he is two, as sometimes that can be a bit late for the dogs first time. First though he needs to be hip scored, this can be done once he reaches a year old, and he must have a score under 18, which is the breed average. If he has German lines he also has to be haemophilia tested.
I would not recommend allowing him to be used for stud to any bitch not K.C reg as you will find that any pup not registered was sold originally for a pet, not for breeding, and also I have found that people who are willing to breed from non registered dogs are not interested in doing any health checks like hip scoring etc. You also need to look very carefully at your dogs pedigree, I have heard lots of bad things about Dreamcoat line, you have to find out if there is any history of hip dysplasia or epilepsy in your dogs line, same goes for any bitch who is brought to your dog, you have to check their pedigrees and also make sure they are not closely related to your dog.
Believe me you have to check, because there are lots of people out there who would happily mate their bitch to any dog as long as they could get the pups and therefore the cash!
Temperament and health are the two most important things to consider, far more important than looks, don't be put off by what the show breeders will say, they are against whites because they are not part of the Breed Standard, this is because whites are not suitable for working purposes, its nothing to do with health or temperament.
I myself have a white longcoat who I hope to use for stud, he has a very low hip score and a beautiful nature, and I know his lines very well, this is the position you have to be in if you really care what you are breeding and want to be a responsible breeder.
Are you aware also that your dog's personality may change when he starts to get used, he may become more difficult, might start to challenge you and could start doing things like 'marking' i.e weeing indoors? Not all dogs do, but a lot get like this and worse, and the more bitches they get the more they want and the more difficult they become to live with!
Its a real chance to take, I could understand you wanting to use your dog for stud if you had bitches of your own and wanted to breed Shepherds yourself, but if your dog is just a pet then why bother?
I hope this helps you - good luck!

Dear Sister Sam, Great Aunt Leigh, slapped my wrist a while ago for being a bit errrr.......forthright!!! So I am on best behaviour at the moment ( at least till something REALLY annoys me. roflol

Um.. Thanks for the advice and everything, but can I just say Phillipa, my dog DOES have KC papers.

But you said your freinds bitch didn't were you not planning on mating the two? If not then I missunderstood you aswell as Philippa:)Gillian

My friends bitch doesn't have papers, but my dog does, I was planning on mating the two as I have a lot of friends who want them as pets, but after that I was considering putting him to stud with KC registered bitches, so that the puppies will have them too.. Like I said, I'm a little naive, I've not done anything like this before, all I wanted was a little advice, Thankyou Bear for your kind and helpful words.

Just curious. Did you find the link on breeding of any interest? :-)

I did Leigh, thankyou :)

Well thats it you see because your friends bitch doesn't have papers the pups from that mating can not be registered and thats what Philippa was talking about.It isn't easy to say things here exactly as you would say them in a proper conversation they do sometimes come across as harsher than they are meant and we have no way of knowing how knowledgable you are:D Gillian

I know that if she doesn't have papers the pups can't be registered... But Phillipa assumed MY dog isn't registered, which he is, So if I were to put him to stud with bitches that are registered the puppies could then be used for breeding, I was thinking first about mating him with Ice (my friend's bitch) Because they get on really well, and I have loads of friends who would want a puppy as just a pet. I'm not stupid enough to think that if she isn't registered the pups can be.. I know they can't, but my dog is and so to say that no one will be interested in using him as a stud was unfair comment..

Hi again, Lets get this sorted out shall we? I said that the only people who may be interested in using him at stud were people who wanted to breed white GSDs for the pet " market" It wasnt an unfair comment, its a fact of the dog world. GSD purists and people whose main interest is showing their dogs will not want to use your dog, however beautiful he may be. As I said before, I love your sort of Shepherd, and I did explain I wasnt having a dig, just trying to explain to you the sort of response you would get. What is the point of asking a question, if you dont want truthful answers?

I didn't ask you to question my dog, I asked which tests I would need doing on him. They only thing I am naive about is that. I am aware that him being white is classed as a deficiency, as well as him being long coated. I was not asking about showing him as I already do at Exemption shows. I was asking what kind of tests need doing and if he is in the all clear, how I go about finding registered bitches to put him to stud with. I am aware that of what the puppies would be being bred for and that they couldn't be shown. I know that Purists would class him as a freak and would have no interest in the puppies, but to be truthful, yes, you answered my question, which is all I asked of you I didn't ask for an arguement over how many people will want pups from him, that's really something I knew about already and will need to consider myself.

PHILIPPA !! .... less of the *Great Aunt* :P

Hehehehehehehe, sorry Leigh, just making light conversation lol :D

Just because you're *famous* now, doesn't mean you can get away with calling me great aunt ;-) lol

Leigh <<dusting off her well worn copy of the shooting times>> :D

OK, well hows about if I drop the "great" then? :D

I for one thought you meant great as in the great and wonderful aunty Leigh.... not "great" as in great grandmother :( ;) :D :D
You were chastised, Phil? I'm supposed to be the "bad 'un" I'm absolutely shocked :) :P

LOL@Sara :P

Oh rats, I never thought of that sort of "great" but of course thats what I meant Leigh, great as in wondeful :D Im not normally naughty on the board, but I did step out of line, so the great Aunt Leigh was quite right to tell me off :) :)