Some of you may remember my post on my terrier that is not always happy on the table and the judge going over her for too long - gets grumbly. I have had a behaviourist out to her as she has other issues with chasing ponies and lunging at poeple and dogs in the street (intermittently). He said she was dominant and we have worked with the techniques he recommened and have improved in some areas except for table manners! Not keen on being touched by any strangers, shys away.

I take her ring carft every week and she's fine on the whole except a small grumble to a new judge she hadn't seen before and that was after she had handled her and just gave her a stroke! I've never done any proper training with her except ring craft from 12 weeks until she was 6 months, she's now 2 and just re started ring craft on his advice. they are good at ringcraft and know she can be edgey so approach her accordingly.

Now do you think normal dog training that gets the dog doing more of what you want, sit stay etc might better to gain some control back from her and give more indication that i am in charge and she doesn't need to be?
I have had some great advice from marion re the table manners and my nervousness of the situation but just thought a different type of dog training might help.
I have 4 other dogs that all like to be fussed by anyone and i bred her myself to give you all a bigger picture.

I have to say that if the behaviourist still believes that dogs can be dominant over people, then I would not have much faith in them. :( A dog that backs off a judge and also growls usually does so because of fear, and needs very careful handling to get MORE confidence, not being treated firmly as this will have the opposite effect. (Likewise chasing other animals and lunging and barking at other dogs on a lead, combined with the backing off judges, are all typical signs of nervous aggression -the dog thinks that if she can get in FIRST, she will be safe. I.e attack is the best form of defence. It's the total OPPOSITE of being dominant.) If I was you I'd find a good training class and do obedience, and whilst being there ask various people to go over the dog as well as if at a show (and offer LOTS of treats, never force anything) -I've never had a problem getting people to do this, almost everyone will oblige. Ringcraft is all well and good but the trouble is that you normally end up with just one or two people that the dog will trust, when you need her to learn that EVERYONE are nice. :)

thanks - the behavourist was very good though and spent a long time with us with out charging the earth. He encouraged lots of reward based techniques such as getting her to focus on me when out and approaching other people, this has worked and she's always been fine at shows when there are lots of people about, never lunges then, its lone dogs or people on a day to day walk. Off lead she's not as bad on the forest but on lead she is horrible but the 'look' command and a treat is working well unless the dog is very close. She is also more agressive acting if her mum gets involved she seems to see this as reinforcement.

I thought it was a nervous fear type aggression which he thought some of her behaviour was but some just where is dominant like in our kitchen when we have visitors or when my daughter comes in the back door. Is she protecting us or herself? I dont think i socialised her enough as a baby and the first ring craft wasn't that good - there was a lady there always shouting at her dog or child and thats why i left.

I agree with you about ringcarft she is getting used to the routine and the same 2 people going over her which is why i think she growled at the new person last week because she hadn't seen her before. Perhaps i could invite all judges to an open day at my house so she gets to know them first before a show!!

I will try an obediance class for a while i think and get up confidence.

just spoken to a lady that runs obediance plus does good citizen. She is happy for us to start an 8 weeks course of obediance that includes handling confidence for dog. She called it a de sensatizing her to her touch issues but i must not take to her shows whilst on the program as it undoes what your'e trying to acheive. At shows its a forcing the dog to be touched which isn't helping my dog.

I am going to give it a go and not bother with the 2 shows i have over this period. It starts next week so will do crufts as it will be the last one for a while.

I had a male returned to a friend of mine who was very nervous and biting on the table, we have no idea what had gone on at his previous home but he was sent back due to being unable to show him.

It took me a year of daily grooming on the table to desensitize him to peoples touch, with about 4mths of just me and my family doing it before he would be ok at ringcraft classes which went on weekly for another 7mths then he was taken back to the show ring and went great guns winning his first CC. 

well that is positive for my girl then but may take longer than i was expecting. She will let me groom her but hates it. She also gets anxious when she has a collar put on even though 99% of the time its to go for a run which she loves.
Sometimes with people its like she wants attention but as soon as they go to touch her she backs off or more seriously has growled if she wasnt able to move away.

She has potential in the ring and we normally always get a good placing so it will be a shame if i cant help her.

i think going to obediance classes is a great idea :) im doing 1 now with our 4month old ...and shes learning so fast we are doing good citizen then once i can get her use to my comands and shes understanding me im going to do ring craft ...luckly its the same trainer just a different class ...im not going to rush her she is learning so well and enjoying it too (and me :) )...in the 2weeks ive got her sitting.. lieing down.. standing..staying...and waiting ...and all this with very small amounts of chicken with her training :)

good luck i hope it goes well and you get her sorted ...with a good trainer im sure you will :) xx

thanks - I'm feeling positive about it except my girl is 2 and of a stubborn breed so might take longer for her to get to grips with commands the than your 4mth old!