I have a 2.5 year old neutered bitch who is gradually getting more and more dog unfriendly.  She used to be brilliant and loved playing with other dogs but now I just can't trust her.  She's a very high energy breed and gets a good run about off lead for about an hour every day through our local forest parks, but now I dread coming across another dog.  When a strange dog approaches her she appears quite timid, standing very still with her tail between her legs while the other dog sniffs her over.  Then she switches to running about and barking, head down on the ground with her bottom in the air in a classic "play with me" pose, and tries to get the dog to chase her.  She's very fast so she'll keep looking over her shoulder to check that the dog is keeping up with her.  If the dog seems to tire of this game, she'll then look about for a stick or something to pick up and run past the dog clearly teasing them to chase her again.  Now this all seems like harmless fun, but the problem comes when she drops the stick and the other dog tries to get it.  She will then attack the other dog for taking her stick.  Usually it's just a snarl and lunge and the other dog runs away, but yesterday she leapt at a young golden retriever when he tried to take her bit of seaweed, grabbed his neck and shook her head from side-to-side like she really meant it.  I was horrified!  The retriever yelped and ran away before I could check for damage but I really hope she didn't actually puncture his skin.  Incidently, the retriever's owner was a good 200 yards away and heading in the other direction.  I'm so upset that this has happened as I believe I have done everything I can to try to bring up a well socialised dog (we went to puppy classes and obedience classes), and she has been brought up with three young children who take turns to feed her and play with her.  She does not resource guard anything from us or the children.  She has been attacked on three occasions by other dogs and I wonder if she thinks that this is now acceptable behaviour as it has been done to her.

Apologies for the long post, but if anyone has any ideas on how I can stop this behaviour I would be soooo grateful.  I really don't want to have to end up walking her at antisocial times just to avoid any other dogs, or even worse, have to resort to muzzling her, however, I am well aware of my responsibilities as a dog owner and I cannot allow her to attack other dogs.  Please help.

With my dogs i always say if they cant play nice they dont get to play at all. I think your best option is to put her on lead whenever you come across a dog and build her confidence up in just meeting other dogs. It makes me wonder why she has been attacked 3 times by other dogs, perhaps she was behaving in a way that the other dogs took offence to, she sounds a little pushy but also quite insecure, most confident adult dogs i know greet with a sniff and then maybe have a little friendly wrestle before following each other about a bit sharing sniffs. Your girl doesnt sound confident enough to do this yet so she resorts to games and maybe a little bit of bullying when greeting a dog to make sure things go her way. I would try to teach her to behave calmly when greeting other dogs by having her on a slack lead just to prevent her starting the game before it escalates into anything more. Maybe find someone with a dog you know is good tempered and practice meeting them a few times till she can behave calmly and doesnt feel so insecure, maybe walk them together with her on lead so she can learn to just relax in another dogs company. Im not an expert though, this is just what i would do if it was my dog. Hope you get it sorted out soon.

Hi,

She sounds a bit worried and nervous.  If you start to dread meeting other dogs then she will pick up on that so first of all you need to manage the situation so that she doesn't get the chance to practise this behavour so that you can relax when she is around other dogs.  It sounds like after she's got over her initial worry of greeting a new dog she is fairly keen to interact albeit maybe a little nervously, the looking over her shoulder may be to check that the other dog is at a safe distance or not too close rather than keeping up.  So being that it all goes ok for a bit can you, not recall her before she get to the point where she picks something up, let her greet, have a quick play and then interupt the game and be on your way?

This way she'll get to experience the fun part of greeting new dogs and maybe build up her confidence a little.  All the while she is practising this behaviour, not only will it build negagative associations with other dogs, it be more likely to happen each time because like with the goldie it works; but it isn't safe either.

If there are dogs she is more likely to be scared of like bigger dogs or bouncy dogs and there fore more likely to be skittish about them then intervene, son't let them get too close if possible and sniff her all over, let them have a quick hello and then move on.

If you can't recall her then I would suggest you pop her on a harness and long line and do some work on her recall and get that up to scratch so that you can call her away from other dogs.

Does she resource guard other things and is it with all dogs or is she fine once she gets to know a dog.  Resource guarding can varies in how easy it is to deal with and it may be  worth getting someone in to assess her and give you some proffessional advice :-)

You might want to consider a thorough vet check. I had one dog that got progressively worse with other dogs from previously being fantastic with them. It turned out that he had kidney problems. Once that was sorted, he was back to normal.
Also, you might want to get your vet to check the thyroid (6-panel test, not just basic T4!!!). This too can have a major impact on aggression levels and the resource guarding once one of the first things that was reduced drastically when my spaniel was put on thyroxine due to autoimmune thyroiditis! His interaction with other dogs got a lot better too.

Don't be fobbed off by your vet if he says that your dog does not show any signs of hypothyroidism. Behaviour problems are often the first signs and my Jesse didn't show any of the typical thyroid problems either (weight gain, exercise intolerance etc. - he had none of that).

Vera

Thanks so much to you all for your varied and sound advice.  She is a funny mixture of appearing very timid but then being far to boisterous!  Her recall, thankfully, is very very good, so I really like the idea of letting her play for a short while but then cutting the play short before it escalates.

In answer to the question about resource guarding other things - she has always been bad with all dogs when it comes to food, so much so that I have had to make sure that no-one tries to give her a treat when other dogs are around.  I used to think she was just food aggressive and I could handle that by making sure she didn't get into a situation where she had the opportunity to take another dog's treat.   And she resource guards me, if that makes sense.  I think she is just being protective/possessive over me but I have to make sure I don't get between her and another dog at close range, while they're playing off lead, as she will bark at them to keep away from me.  She also barks at me (?or another dog) if I ever pet another dog, and most people comment that she is jealous.  Perhaps she is, or perhaps she is resource guarding me??  Oh, if only I could read her mind!

With some dogs, usually the smaller breeds, she is really pushy and will just run straight up to them barking and bouncing around, so her confidence is a bit mixed.  She used to be really good friends with two dogs and we had great walks together without any aggression at all (just boisterousness), but the family moved far away and since then I haven't been able to find her any compatible friends :o(

Thanks again for your advice, and I'll go back to basics with letting her meet other dogs on lead, and calling her away from off lead play before she can pick something up.

Agree a check over by the vet first and then if nothing is found you could try asking the vet for a short course of female hormone to see if it is the spaying that is making her more guarding and aggressive.

Hello,

I looked at your profile photo and it looks like you have a Vizsla.  I too have a Vizsla, male and neutered.  Mine is more a bully with other dogs, and just like bullies he will pick on the smaller dog.  I found my boy has become more aggressive to other dogs since having my daughter, so what I have done for the past 4 years is have him walked once a week by a dog walking company....he apparently is completely different for her than he is for me and is a real gentleman.

So now the final outcome is to let him off the lead when with dogs of equal or larger size, they put him in his place and he can't boss them around, and with the smaller breeds he is kept on the lead and has to sit and behave in a polite manner.  If he doesn't then he is not allowed to socialise.

Good luck, it's a horrible feeling to have a dog you can't trust around other dogs.

Hi Chillivizsla
Well spotted - she is a Vizsla!  That's really interesting that you have similar issues with your boy, maybe it's a breed trait.  And that the problem isn't there when he is being walked by someone else.  I'm guessing my girl would improve too if walked by someone else as then she wouldn't feel the need to protect them (maybe?).  And you are so right, it is horrible feeling to have a dog you can't trust around other dogs.  I think that's what I'm finding so hard to get used to.  She's just such a wonderful loving family dog, so it's a bit of a shock to see her being so nasty to other dogs.

Hi Nikknox,

I'm so glad you have a Vizzy, not enough around!  The most delicious dogs in the world aren't they...even when they're naughty.  When I looked into the breed it did say they were very protective of their family and Chilli has calmed down in some ways with age but become more defensive in others.  Saying that tho, he has got me out of a sticky situation when a man behaved in a bizarre manner in our local park.  He looked after my daughter (4 yrs) and me by keeping this man at bay until we were safe.

Chilli is so protective of us/house/garden that people swear at him as they walk near our property.  I wish he didn't do it but on the other hand he is doing what comes natural to him, looking after his own.  I know none of this really relates to your little girl but you aren't the only one going thru this with a Vizsla.  If you want to go on to Facebook, there are Vizsla clubs on there and they will talk about their munchkins.....we all have the same passion!

Your little girl looks really pretty, does she have the Hungarian line in her?  Too many at Crufts look like Whippets.

Hi Nikknox

That's really interesting that you have similar issues with your boy, maybe it's a breed trait.

Errr,no....it most certainly is not a trait of any well bred viz that I have come across.  Unfortunately, a lot of people have jumped on the viz bandwagon in recent years and there have been a lot of pet bred litters that probably should never have been bred in the first place - due to poor conformation, temperament or whatever.

If your dogs come from reputable breeders of long standing, go back to them for advice.  If not, talk to someone like Sylvia Cox (sorry Sylvia!) from the breed club who knows the breed inside out and sees all sorts as she deals with all the rescue dogs. Sylvia, and other members of the Club, will be able to advise you and/or put you in touch with someone locally to assess and help.

Also, I notice in your original post that you say:
She's a very high energy breed and gets a good run about off lead for about an hour every day

Personally speaking, I would say that for a fully mature (2.5 year old) HPR that one hours free running per day is insufficient physical exercise on a REGULAR basis.  I have GSPs and they generally get 2 hours free running per day - often more;  yes, I can get away with a lot less for a short period of time if I am ill but if they were only to have one hour per day as the norm then they would quite rapidly become very hyper and OTT.  I am raising this as I wonder whether lack of physical exercise may be adding to your problems and exacerbating things?  The viz is a hunting dog and was designed to range all day on the plains of its homeland; yes, some of the show bred ones lack totally in hunt drive and wouldn't know a pheasant if it was to hit them in the face! :-) However, generally speaking, the breed still has the latent energy which is often directed into such activities as agility etc.  I am not advocating that you route march her for hours on end every day as I know some people do - but then they make a rod for their own back! - but perhaps upping her exercise and giving her two sessions a day would help?  Also, training exercises that make her use her brain often have a calming effect - and tire the dog out too!

Final comment would be....diet.  I would be looking to feed any dog with issues as natural a diet as possible.  In other words, remove all additives and anything of that ilk that again may contribute to the problem.

Good luck

Hi Chillivizsla

I wish he didn't do it but on the other hand he is doing what comes natural to him

If you wish he didn't do it, then train him NOT to do it!  :-)

Also, I may be wrong but I can hear alarm bells going off in the background when I read your post - possibly because, sadly, it mirrors my own experience to some extent.

I have bark on cue and when my male GSP was a teenager I had two incidents in close succession when I was threatened (a flasher and a druggie) and had to use his bark as a deterrent.  He quickly moved the behaviour on and instead of waiting for me to ask him for help he started making his own decisions as to when he needed to step in.  Very soon I had a dog that was reactive to any single man walking on his own in remote places.  I had to do a lot of work to get the situation back under control;  I was lucky in that I knew my dog was basically of sound temperament; there never had been an inkling of a problem up to the incidents and all throughout I could still leash walk him in town with strange men all around, no problem and I could invite a strange male into the house etc etc - it was circumstances that became the triggers for his behaviour. 

What I am saying, I guess, without wishing to scare you, is be careful.  There are some warning signs there......the guarding he is exhibiting is uncued behaviour, so not under control. 

I am new to Vizzies. But great post Gunner :)

Hello Gunner,

I am happy with my situation with my dog, thank you.  I was expressing my thoughts on my dog, not asking opinions. 

This is the reason I left being a member on this board before because others were so keen to jump in and express their opinions of others dogs behaviour when it was never asked.  I remember several years ago it started to get really nasty on here to the point this board lost lots of members.

> I was expressing my thoughts on my dog, not asking opinions
>

Oh dear.  It at looked very helpful stuff to me :-)  This is an information exchange.  If you don't want it just don't take up on any of it.

Free, friendly, forthcoming advice from someone of Gunner's capabilities sounds good to me - especially to those with similar breeds or any dogs with high energy characteristics.

How odd that you should respond in those terms

Whilst you may be happy with your situation and your dog, the people swearing obviously aren't, nor I bet was the man that your dog 'held at bay'.  In the current climate out of control dogs are the trigger that the authorities are looking for to implement draconion Dog Control Orders and up the ante in the DDA etc. 

I find it funny that suddenly some of you jump and defend someone elses opinion, but remember I never asked for it and now when I don't take heed and make it clear I am not interested in any of your opinions, you become suddenly defensive.  MY dog, my problem.

This is my cue to say thank you and goodnight.

> suddenly some of you jump and defend someone elses opinion

I'm not defending someone's opinion - but a respected member's right to give advice or exchange information which some would be very grateful for, whether existing members, newcomers or someone just googling for training tips.

> remember I never asked for it

then were this my dog I'd be all the more appreciative :)

> MY dog, my problem

So it appears - and potentially that of others too!

> This is my cue to say thank you and goodnight

Ciao

Hi Nikkinox,

I don't think it's typical of Vizlas at all, although some can be highly strung.  They are very trainable dogs and in my opinion you had it right in the first place, your dog is seeing you as her one of resources hence the insecurity when other dogs around.  It isn't her being protective but fear of losing one of the 'things' sorry to refer to you as a thing :-D that she values.  Resource guarding often tends to extend to many things, and yes to start with if someone else walked her things may improve but only because they aren't as valuable, or because she wouldn't have quite enough confidence to react to say when she is unhappy about something.  If someone else walked her regularly then they would likely become valuable and the problem would likely reappear.

Even if a dog is of a protective nature, in my opinion this should not generally be seen.  I want my dogs both of which are a guarding breed, to feel protected by me when they are out and not the other way around.  It's my job to look after them and when they know that, they don't feel the need to guard.  I think unfortunately sometimes people, (and I'm not refering to you just generally) are secretly quite flattered by their dogs being guardy over them and this just reinforces the problem.

While in the meantime managing the situation is important so she doesn't get the chance to practise these behaviours it is also important to deal with the underlying problems so that she can start to feel more secure.  The fact that she can be a bit of a bully with smaller dogs is still likely just down to insecurity she just deals with in a different way than she does with dogs that she is more worried by, bullies usually are insecure :-).

It can take quite a bit of time, training and patience to change the way a resource guarder feels, they need to realise that other dogs/people/animals around the things they value is actually a good thing and that good things happen, rather than them losing the things they value.  It is important to work through this slowly and appropriately and it really would be worth getting someone professional that is used to dealing with these kind of problems and uses reward based methods in to help you with this.  In the meantime there is a great book called 'Mine' by Jean Donaldson that deals with resource guarding.

Hi Karenclynes
Thanks for your insight and non-contentious remarks.  As you say, Vizslas are very trainable and she is certainly very smart.  She is whistle trained (1 whistle to stop, or down at close range, 2 whistles to change direction, 3 for recall) and I always do refresher training while out on walks.  She is not fully gundog trained, but will point and flush when encouraged to.  We also play a game where I throw a ball into long grass and she actually has to sniff it out using "find it" command.  So, I do think I'm exercising her brain as well has her body.  And when the nights get longer, she will be getting two walks/day but as I work 8 hrs/day that's kind of difficult at the moment.  And just before anyone asks, I work from home (so does hubby) so she's not left alone all day.

With regard to food, she's fed on Nutro (with a few of the kids veggie/meat left overs).  Sometimes she has Royal Canin, but it's usually Nutro.

What else was there...oh, yes, breeding.  She's out of Yogi (Hungargunn Bear It'n Mind) and Stanegate Sweetpea and was bred by Moray Armstrong - certainly a very reputable Vizsla breeder.  She is certainly not pet bred - in fact, she has gained 5 green stars in becoming an Irish Show Champion.  'Nuff said.

While walking Trix today, I recalled her everytime I saw another dog and kept her on lead.  She was intimidated by two off lead labs but I kept her moving and she was fine.  Later on the walk, a young cocker spaniel wanted to say hello, so again, I kept Trix on lead, let the cocker come up to greet her, then turned around and moved on.  There was no barking or silly behaviour and I remarked to hubby it was probably because I was taking control of the situation.  Everything you've said, Karenclynes, makes perfect sense.  I need to take away her need to guard me and she should start to feel less insecure.

I've got Jean Donaldson's 'Culture Clash' and thought it was a great book - I'm now off to Amazon to get 'Mine'.  Thanks for the recommendation, and thanks again for taking the time to share your advice :-)