I've been told my puppy's breeder that my puppy is lacking in a little bone,
could anyone advise me on what food i can give her to give her more
substance and bone as this is something that is putting her down in the line up
in champ shows i've been told. Any ideas ?

You will be given advice, I'm sure ......but be very, very careful about supplementation in young dogs. You may do untold damage and the dog will make it's pre-determined bone anyway, it's a genetic thing and given a well balanced diet a dog will reach it's potential.

It is an old - but true - saying amongst breeders..." you breed for bone - not feed for it".

Bone is something that a dog is born with.. either has it, or doesnt.. you cant make bone..

However.. that does not mean that your pup is not correct in conformation or balance.. and.. it also depends on breeders interpretation of 'bone'...

While I like good bone.. I do not like to see heavy legged dogs, with legs like tree trunks.. where as some breeders say.. "you can't have too much bone"

The overall balance of the dog should be taken into account.. and with the breed standard changed.. the 'heaviness' that we have been seeing in the ring of late, should reflect on this..

Ditto tooolz comments dylan bale - bone/substance is bred for not fed for, despite all the products advertised as being miraculous cures for what is often a rangey stage with youngsters and slow maturing breeds.

As she's very young she may look more raw than even other similarly aged pups in her class and some judges penalise pups for immaturity (!)  I'd not worry and see how she goes on to develop.  Some of my breed are distinctly "weedy and reedy" as pups and/or juniors yet finish with good proportionate substance in keeping with their size and, no coincidence, their relatives

ETA Kay beat me to it LOL

regards, Teri :)

Thanks for the replys
She's not exactly weedy or lanky in anyway , but she is a little less boney than the pups that are beating her and her litter sisters are like built like tanks compared to her , but they dont have her movement and her balance as her breeder says. I would nt want her to be like some of the labs in the ring as its too extreme and not what the breed standard asks for but a little more substance would'nt go a miss.

With youngsters, they often have different finishing posts so to speak.
Some are ready at 6 months, big well covered and look the finished article and it's easy for judges to be seduced by such an 'obvious' choice...but then there are the immature babies which can look like a guessing game and it takes a judge/ dog fancier who can predict how raw dogs will finish up.  Not everyone in dogs have this ability to see potential and many choose the safety of 'judging the dog on the day.'
A good 'un will do well in the end...little comfort when you have a raw one....... but patience is all these ones need. :-)

In my own breed the winning youngster often drops off as it becomes fully adult and the slow maturing youngster starts to take over, at 7 years the winning pup will long ago have left the ring and the slow maturing dog will still be taking the top awards.

I know it will be different for different breeds but I will ask anyway :)
What age do people generally think dog will have the bone it will have?
My girl is now 18 months old and in the last month I have looked at her legs and been thinking she has got more bone recently...
But then I have been dismissing the thought thinking I must be going nuts and imagining the whole thing.
Until somebody else mentioned it to me too, asking me if I think she has got more bone!
I wasn't expecting her to get anymore at this age but then I have to say I really do not know when they stop

Even within breeds it's different Noora but certainly my own dogs have always been slow maturers and I find they don't start to really come together and look balanced until upwards of 3 years.  It's not just the bone which is developing, their muscles need to develop too and many folks forget there's flesh between the bone and skin of the limbs :)

Three of mine have been very rangey in legs at 2 years but distinctly improved 6-12 months later and then gradually continued to do so.  I don't know your breed but I'd guess this is the same for your girl by your description.

One of my breeders, very much of the stockman/old school type, firmly believed that what you see at 7 weeks - i.e. the proprtions for substance to size and over all balance - was what the finished article most resembled.  I don't know how scientifically accurate that was but boy could she pick a pup so perhaps there's something in it!

its a little comfort that she could still be in the ring when shes 7 , so i'll try and wait patiently and see how she developes in the future. Her breeder did say that her blacks are slower to mature than her yellows , time will tell .

she's a labrador by the way :)

One of my Irish is just coming up 5 and he is only just looking "finished" he always looked a bit leggy and skinny but has finally filled out and actually looks quite nice bless him. I have never shown this one due to his one ball issue so dont know how he would have done in the ring.  Need to wait another 5 years now for his brain to mature

Dylan.. don't be in too much of a rush for her.. for me.. the slower the better...

I have 12 Labs..

McKenzie.. as a minor puppy went out and took every award going.. his 1st two shows came home with best puppy.. and continued in this vein until 11months... now.. he is more akin to field trial.. he lost it all.. he came on far too quickly.. took a massive growth spurt and is now rangy and very lanky..

Ollie my 3 year old.. is just coming into his own.. he went out as minor puppy and took adult and puppy group placings.. grew very slowly, maturing at a very steady pace.. he is shown very lightly.. and at 3 years.. has just been brought back out for the 1st time in over 8 months.. and won both his classes..

Slow and steady is my preference...

We have another Lab quite close to me.. and when I saw her as a pup, commented that she was really nice, well put together, but a little small, and neat.. it was nearly a year before seeing her in the ring again.. she had matured beautifully, and is now being campainged well and winning everything..

I would rather have a pup come slow and kept out of the ring for a while, than have something come out as puppy for 15mins of fame...

Patience :-)  (easier said than done lol )

My boy had it all when i picked him at 7 weeks.
Within a short time he lost it all and looked 'like a little girl'. He was skinny, no bone and just looked aweful, though i still loved him.
I started to show him at about 8 months old and got placed, been placed at every show, but just wasn't getting high places or winning.

He is now just 21 months and has started to fill out and look better,his bone is coming on, but is slightly finer than some of the others who are winning in the ring.
We have got a couple of firsts and seconds now and feel very proud of his achievements.Some of those dogs who were beating him in the ring as a puppy and junior are now being placed below us. So does go to show, it can happen.

I have been told by many people his movement is fantastic and some have said the best they have seen in a Bernese(they own other breeds, but handle at ringcraft). So it makes me feel a lot better. No dog is perfect and not every dog will have everything to their advantage.

Please don't be too hasty in trying to put weight on your baby, just give her time, don't over exercise her and what she should be she will be in time.

I will try and be patient , she has started to mature a little in the past couple of weeks but it can be frustrating when the only thing that is a miss is a little extra maturity but i am happy with her and she's already had a VHC in a champ show and best puppy in breed in an open show so quite happy :) Thanks for your advice

dylan.. I have sent you a PM :-)

> she's already had a VHC in a champ show and best puppy in breed in an open show

Wow that is good going, to get best puppy in breed at a breed club show is better than most results. It does appear a lot of people take more notice of results from breed club shows than many others. Well Done and don't expect too much too soon..
As someone has said a pup can over mature too soon and the dog doesn't amount to anything.
I have decided i prefer a slower to mature dog, its also help me gets to grips with the showing world as well.

> Even within breeds it's different Noora but certainly my own dogs have always been slow maturers and I find they don't start to really come together and look balanced until upwards of 3 years.  It's not just the bone which is developing, their muscles need to develop too and many folks forget there's flesh between the bone and skin of the limbs :-)
>

Hmmmm... I was expecting she would start looking "less boney" because of not getting exercised and losing the muscle in her legs...
Maybe the opposite has happened and she has got more fat in her legs, My bum has definately got bigger since her accident!
It could obviously be her age too as I hope she has done her growing upwards now so will start to fill out.
I would not expect a Leo to be mature untill 3 years of age but never really thought about the bone and just kind of assumed the bone will be there or not be there from quite young age (1 year or so).

Now after thinking about it, I checked some old pictures of my older dogs and my latest had right stick legs at age of 1 year 4 months but they turned out ok when she matured.
So it seems very possible Sasha has got more boney and I'm not imagining it.

> So it seems very possible Sasha has got more boney and I'm not imagining it

Going by my own dogs' development Noora, I'd say so :)
regards, Teri