Hi - I have never posted before and have spent days reading all the posts- actually probably weeks.
I have read every breed and whelping book I can get my hands on and spoken to the stud dog owner every few days and still have questions.

As you may have guessed this is my first litter. I have a toy breed and have been showing for approx 2 years.

Anyway to my question- It is only day 60 and I have seen no discharge although bitch licks herself clean constantly.
Her temp has been down at 36.4 c for the last 24 hours so thought maybe that meant I was close but no panting or digging.
She is off her food mainly since this afternoon and has soiled in the house twice this afternoon something she never does.
I decided to take her for a walk just to get her out of bed a while- lots of sleeping going on- whwilst on walk I could see the poo being forced out as she walked by pressure from the pups I assume.

Her breathing is deep but not laboured and I can see waves across her tummy - gentle waves not sure if weak contractions or just puppies moving.

I just wondered if you think she might be in labour or close to it and just being very relaxed or is it possibly still a while off?

Any advice appreciated- I am a cross between excitement, fear and anticipation

>I am a cross between excitement, fear and anticipation

this is what i expect any breeder never mind a first time breeder experiences.
apart from the temp which you know to look out for she will start nesting. shaking, panting, pacing etc...
but she does have a few days left yet so dont worry too much yet

Thanks- I can't take my eyes off her and I think my desperation for them to be born is making me think she is in labour.
I met the vet in the pet shop yesterday and he glanced at my temp chart and said "next 48 hours" so have been really excited since then.
I thought the involuntary emptying of her bowels may have been a sign.

Hi Ann

with due respect to mahonc there's quite a difference in size between your breeds - hopefully someone with your breed or one of similar size will be along shortly as it could be that it's common for your breed to deliver early :)  Have you been in touch with your girl's breeder?  She may be better able to advise what is the norm in her bitch line.

FTR I'd not take my eyes off her at all now - my girl (again a larger breed) went into labour shortly after showing very similar signs to those you describe.  After noticing the slight rippling in her tummy muscles and being off her food for no more than an hour, she began quivering and panting with a fairly large litter born in the two hours after that.

I know what you mean about excitement and nerves - it's a big deal first time around for breeders too :)

Hopefully some breed specific info will be along shortly.
best wishes, Teri

Yes her breeder and two friends who also show same breed have said up to a week before can be ok and their experience is that today would be the most common day.
She is in her whelping box beside me and is giving the occasional scratch but I have the new dog unruckable mats so she can't really rearrange the bed so just drops off to sleep again.
She is not really taking drinks at the minute either- I know people say she should drink more at the onset of labour.
She is very serene and calm although occasionally giving me a very surprised look - eyes out on stalks
Will be a long week if she is not - This is unbearable :)

Ditto what Teri said
plus if you really meant "I decided to take her for a walk" my I suggest you dont do that again. A puppy may drop out at any moment and without a clean towel (and in a hour or so, a torch) you may have a tragedy.
In the garden, fully armed and in good light only.

It is a critical time with tinies like yours and she may not give you full blown signs..... so expect anything. My littlies go up to a week early too.

Thanks - It was a decision and obviously a poor one- She has been lying around all day and I thought a short walk may help her get things going
I did have a face cloth in my pocket and only walked within 5 mins of home if that but won't risk it now.

Hi there :-)  my bitches have had their pups a few days early and all was fine, she does sound like she's pretty near, I would say just keep a good eye but also keep things pretty normal just to keep yourself busy and then you dont have time to get stressed lol, I usally find my girls arent so keen to walk in the last days so I dont take them out but neither do I leave them alone so I get someone else to walk my others for me, dont worry she'll have them when she ready :-)

Thanks- Could have done with getting to the club show yesterday with all my questions but didn't dare leave her.
Do you find yours dig and pant etc a lot beforehand?

Hello Ann

Same as Papillon, sounds like she won't be keeping you hanging around to long. 

I have been fortunate that I have only ever had one girl go before 63 days.  Sorry I can't help with the temperature thing as I have never done it.  Important that you don't leave your girl alone and please don't let her go out on her own to toilet.  The waves you see are I can only guess without seeing her, firststage contractions moving the pups down the horn.

Let us know when she starts digging and scratching the bed up and we'll get the coffee on and sit it out with you.

Joan

> Do you find yours dig and pant etc a lot beforehand?

In the very beginnings of first stage there is hardly more than a bit of heavy breathing going on and usually some deep sleeping to, as the hours pass the breathing turns from heavy breathing to panting, they start to dig around and move the bedding here and there again and again, dont worry there really is no mistaking when she really goes into labour, you will know without a doubt :-)

Didnt get to the club show myself yesterday either, had a prior arrangement I couldnt break, next show for me is an open at Norton Heath Essex, hope its a LOT warmer than last time I was there lol, my poor dogs and me near froze to death that day :-O

> Let us know when she starts digging and scratching the bed up and we'll get the coffee on and sit it out with you.
>

Yes we love to hear of pups on the way here so we'll pull up our chairs and wait for good news from you :-)

I've spent the night on the telephone or in other folks homes helping with whelping but never on the internet.
My lot will think I've moved out. LOL

Will do - Thanks Joan and Papillon.
Have no idea if it will be today or if she will go to 63.
These boards are great for reassurance

AM

Best bit is just being able to chat, helps keep you calm.

I've sent you a PM

> I've spent the night on the telephone or in other folks homes helping with whelping but never on the internet.

Oh I have! my friends set up a webcam so I could advise on their bitch's first whelping, they felt nervous and wanted me to just reassure them all was going well, they live a very long way away from me so the webcam was perfect, all went very well with the whelping even with the last puppy being a breach but they helped him into the world beautifully, I just love seeing pups being born so for me it was almost as good as being there :-)

> Will do - Thanks Joan and Papillon.
> Have no idea if it will be today or if she will go to 63.
> These boards are great for reassurance
>
> AM

Your most welcome Ann, there's a wealth of knowledge on here which is great and there's usually someone around if you have a query.

Yvonne.

Have PM'ed back - Thanks

Yvonne

Web can is a great idea, never thought of that. 

> Web can is a great idea, never thought of that

It really was amazing, I had a good clear view most of the time, would seriously recommend it as a way of assisting someone if you cant be there, its better than just hearing a description of how things are going over the phone, you can see it for yourself and advise accordingly, it was excellent :-)

Just a quick update- quiet night but covered in mucous this morning which I cleaned but has now returned.
I have spoken to joan from the site so know all is well.
She vommited abou ten minutes ago so I have popped in her whelping box- she usually is calm and quiet in there but is crying to get out- which I am ignoring.
Am hoping this she is in labour

> I have popped in her whelping box- she usually is calm and quiet in there but is crying to get out- which I am ignoring.
>

Hi Ann, TBH I would let her out now and just keep an eye on her.  Just because she's got a whelping box all ready and waiting doesn't mean she needs to stay there (or even have the pups in it!).  I think it would be better to keep you both calm and relaxed at this stage and if she'd rather be with you then IMO that would be best all round.

Fingers crossed all goes well :)  Please update when you can!
Teri

Am sitting in front of box with her whilst she frantically cleans her rear end. She has been sleeping in her box for two weeks so really it has become her bed.
I had turned it round to face me but it is usually side on to my bed. I have now turned it back side on and she is happier and has stopped asking to get out.
Am spying through top section (It is snow silk with lid) so I can see her.
Isn't excitement and fear a strange mix!

> Isn't excitement and fear a strange mix

Definitely - it has a habit of making lunch come back with a vengeance :-D

So it's not only butterfly dogs, but a stomach full of butterlies as well. LOL

Butterflies everywhere here- Am typing with an eye on the box- thought she was away then she was licking like mad then looking tried t lie down then sat up again and licked some more and has now decided a snooze is in order.

This is torture!! Don't know how you do it or does it get easier with time?

> Just a quick update- quiet night but covered in mucous this morning which I cleaned but has now returned.
> I have spoken to joan from the site so know all is well.
> She vommited abou ten minutes ago so I have popped in her whelping box- she usually is calm and quiet in there but is crying to get out- which I am ignoring.
> Am hoping this she is in labour

Pulling up a chair and opening a tin of choccy biscuits for all the CD-ers that will now be checking the posts VERY frequently lol.

Do you think it will be today?

> This is torture!! Don't know how you do it or does it get easier with time?

Can only answer for me but I find each whelping is filled with happy anticipation and a little worry, so no I dont think you ever do really get so used to it you become blas'e :-)

Hello Yvonne, the good bit is just starting, it's like having a seat at the movies.

Anne it doesn't get easier but you learn to read the signs better, if that makes sense.

> Do you think it will be today?

Only a guess as I cant see her but I would say she is very very near :-)

> Hello Yvonne, the good bit is just starting, it's like having a seat at the movies.
>

Hi ya Joan, I love this bit (I love all of it lol) but the start is always special, the months of hoping and waiting are finally near the end and with luck there should be some lovely bundles of gorgeousness arriving pretty soon :-)

must admit you go through every step with them, and then there always comes the bit in the middle where you say never again, then the pups are there and any worries and doubts you had dissapear.  Jim is out tonight so can I sit here all evening and watch with my lot hanging around as well.

Just spoke to vet before surgery closes to put him on standby. He thinks it will be within next 24 hours- hoped it would be quicker now.
I am desperate to see these babies- Can't believe it's actually happening.
Fingers crossed it all goes well.
After hoping they are safe I am desperate to know colours and sex now - feels like forever

Vet used to laugh at me when I said she should have a colour scanner LOL.

Don't we wish the time past, from maing to birth, from birth to eyes open,
to running around, to old enough for there first show lol

> must admit you go through every step with them, and then there always comes the bit in the middle where you say never again, then the pups are there and any worries and doubts you had dissapear.  Jim is out tonight so can I sit here all evening and watch with my lot hanging

I know exactly what you mean Joan :-)

With luck my eldest wont want to hog the comp all night and I can keep looking in for updates.

I have resisted looking at schedules but should be fine for darlington and driffield - lol - only kidding best not tempt fate...

:):):):):) did i hear chocy bics yvonne :) and a hot cup of tea :) lovely im staying too ....good luck hun its soon time to see them babys :) xx

> Just spoke to vet before surgery closes to put him on standby. He thinks it will be within next 24 hours- hoped it would be quicker now.
> I am desperate to see these babies- Can't believe it's actually happening.
> Fingers crossed it all goes well.
> After hoping they are safe I am desperate to know colours and sex now - feels like forever

I think were almost as excited as you Ann :-)

> have resisted looking at schedules but should be fine for darlington and driffield - lol - only kidding best not tempt fate...

LOL LOL a girl after my own heart, you cant help but think ahead for when they make their debut :-D

Hi

What a fab site this is. All lovely supportive people.
Think Dave is feeling a bit left out - have sent him off to b&q for a while and then try to talk him into a movie in the bedroom when he gets back.
Still no panting or digging yet although she is having deeper breaths

did i hear chocy bics yvonne :-) and a hot cup of tea :-) lovely im staying too ....good luck hun its soon time to see them babys :-) xx

Hi ya :-)  yes there's a huge tin of choccy biscuits and volumes of tea and coffe on the go, all are welcome!

> Hi
>
> What a fab site this is. All lovely supportive people.
> Think Dave is feeling a bit left out - have sent him off to b&q for a while and then try to talk him into a movie in the bedroom when he gets back.
> Still no panting or digging yet although she is having deeper breaths

Very good idea Ann, I think the OH's can feel a bit left out, mine prefers to stay right out of the way except if I need any help then he comes running, he prefers to see the new babies when they are clean and shiny and mum is serenely feeding them.

LOL about OH's mine sleeps through everything, even when I've had to go out to the vet.

eta  one and only time he did help the girl bit him, it was a big pup so she got a cuddle anyway. lol

Dave is the same- Tried to get him to read whelping books and make sure he knew how to revive a puppy but he screws his face up and says his job is to give them kisses after they are born!!!
He fishes and handles all things slimy so I don't understand it- Can't complain though Mischa moved into the bedroom weeks ago in her box and my other bitch missed her so much and cried so hard she moved in too in a vari kennel - so all in all not bad support for a husband.

Awww it sounds like you both have nice hubbys, seems pretty general they prefer not to be in the thick of things but support in the background is just as important.

Will check in later with an update x

> Will check in later with an update x

Will look in whenever I can :-)

Good luck Ann.  Catch up in a while.

No news yet- All quiet now- still periods of licking vulva but nothing else of note