Have been visiting a friend who is involved with conservation. Apparently one of the managment companies of many of the large open spaces around us has been having more and more issues with dogs. These problems appears to be  largely dog on dog attacks, dogs worrying livestock and generally irresponsible dog owners.
They feel the problem has become so great that stratergies that need to be found. There are already park rangers/wardens indeed they are the people that are dealing with the problems and are being swamped
Just as a matter of interest how do others feel that these kind of issues should be dealt with. For instance is current legislation sufficient, do we feel there are more problems with dogs ( not just the ones the media get hold of and publise rightly or wrongly)
My friend and I had a great discussion about dogownership the rights and wrongs, both of us own dogs and wondered what others thought

well i for one have watched the changes over the 25 years of having staffies.I was the first one on this big estate to bring in a red staffy.I have watched how the staffy owners have changed as well.Every where you go now everyone has a staffy.I have walked the same park the past 25 years with my dogs,so quite a few folk know me as on my estate.Just the other week i was out walking my irish staffy when i bumped into 3 lads all near their thirties,an a lovely over muscled staffy.One of the lads shouted over to me to ask where i got the pit from,well me laughing at them said what pit,reply that one you got there.lol what pit m8 i aint got one,its an irish,oh the lad said.I replied not a bad staffy you got your self there pay much for the steroids you built it on.Gobs open the whole 3 of them,oh.Soon shut them up.Do you fight it love,starting to get a bit red round the collar,oh no love i do my own fighting dont need my dog for that m8.What steroids have you used on yours lol couldnt help myself my dog is only 10 month old not even fully built and just started her muscles building,none m8 i walk her and work her.What you mean you work her,so i went into details about the exercise routine fly ball,agility,swimming etc,oh it too hard work just give it steroids,this is just one of the many changes.Poor dog.

What about setting up dog training clubs/classes in those areas or have a behaviourist that can work with those
dogs/owners that are reported for dog attacks. Yes granted those who really don't give a damn won't
do anything but those that do and are desperate to change their dogs behaviour but don't have the money
to pay for behavioural problems or even the knowledge of how to correct problems early on before they get
to the esculated stage.

It's education that could change things BUT people need to be willing to learn and take things on board.
Plus the trainers and training classes have to be of a good standard to be able to help owners and dogs.
One of my own bred puppy's (different owners & almost out of junior age group) owner's had the wrong advice and training
methods given to them. They didn't know (and I certainly wasn't aware of the type of training that they were getting)
that the methods and training that they were getting were wrong.
Now they have got a dog that has many problems that have been caused by this incorrect training, plus owners that
were getting to the stage of giving up (they've had the breed before so weren't complete novices).
Thankfully I have managed to find them a behaviourist/trainer that is experienced in my breed to help them.
It is going to be a long road to try to put right the behaviour problems.

So perhaps also training classes/trainers do need to be checked to make sure that the standard of training and
methods are correct to help dogs and owners.

Basically you have to start with the owners.....as until you change their mindset, their dogs won't stand a chance.
Perhaps school/youthclub/community day centre displays/talks etc may help in the communities.
Start educating them to be responsible dog owners especially when young and then in the future it may not be so bad

Regretfully whislt education IS the answer some people dont have any education themselves so are unlikely to seek it for their dogs.
Where I live it is signed that dogs who harrass livestock will be shot, I also understand some have been by local Gamekeepers and Estate Managers.

Conservationists have to take the line of whats best, I hope its not to make an example of a few dogs.

Ive just (out of interest) read up on worrying livestock and it does confirm that farmers do have the legal right to take "appropriate" action against dogs worrying livestock. I knew they did shoot dogs but I was not totally sure if they were legally entitled to do so, it would appear that they are. Not relevant here but interesting nevertheless.

do we feel there are more problems with dogs

Yes, I do! In some areas at least, where I am now no problems at all, I mostly meet gun dogs there is ample space of fields and woodlands and they are generally owned by responsible people and well trained nice happy go lucky dogs to bump into, who meet and greet each other and then plod on with their owners, when I see a dog running towards us, I just think ah who is this?

However, on the new housing complex where I used to live and still visit friends there often taking my dog, I think by now I would hate having a dog, all the houses are overbuilt too many people, too little garden and green space, and of course too many dogs and especially too many dogs of different breeds who have different ways of communicating, playing, greeting, some just not being dog tolerant at all, this is causing a lot of problems.

Every time you see a dog it isn't that nice feeling but one of 'is this one friendly?', is the owner going to have control over it, as I've said many times I expect adolescents to go deaf and happily forgive them for that, but these are adults with no control over them - totally different.

For me, it would take the joy out of dog walks, it would make happily strolling with my dog one of constant apprehension and I think more and more people are feeling the same.

In conservation areas, in parks, farm land areas, as a dog lover, I probably would get to the stage of banning dogs myself and that is something I thought I would never say, but I feel like that at times and if I can feel like that.............

I would say a good 50% and maybe I am being generous? Don't understand their breed, don't have control over it, and many just don't care, that unfortunately it is going to have an impact on the rest of us, I don't know how to solve it, how do dog wardens, rangers, park officials know which dogs are going to be friendly and which are likely to fight or be out of control, as a dog owner I can't tell straight away when I see a dog so how can anyone else, the only solution will be in the end that all our dogs will be on lead in every park, conservation area, public woodlands, or anywhere where the general public may go.

I don't think we can stop this progression at all and I don't blame people getting fed up with it from the general public to dog owners themselves.

> Regretfully whislt education IS the answer some people dont have any education themselves so are unlikely to seek it for their dogs.

I don't think it's lack of education that is the problem. Decent people don't need to be educated about things like picking up after your dog, teaching your dog how to behave, stopping your dog from worrying livestock etc. It's commen sense and decency that we learn from our parents, unfortunately I think it's more to do with how we are raised, not educated so education will not make much difference :(
I was brought up in the countryside and it wasn't the fact that farmers could shoot your dog that made us keep our dogs under control around livestock, it was decency - how could a 'decent' person allow thier dog to scare other animals?
The same for poop picking, I would still pick up after Buster if it was perfectly legal to leave dog poop everywhere, I couldn't be responsible for my dog leaving poop for somebody else to trod in, it would make me feel awful.
As education alone, IMO, will not do much good I think it comes down to there being enforcable consequences for people, it seems that people who think they have the 'right' to do whatever they want regardless of law carry on doing so as there is never anything that stops them (the rest of are stopped by our moral values, we don't need the law to keep us in check). I think people who leave dog poop should be named & shamed in the paper as well as getting a very hefty fine, but then the problem is catching these people :(  I'm all for there being CCTV everywhere, it will help protect the innocent, catch the guilty and deter the prats that haven't any moral values to do the 'right' thing in the first place.

A thing thats driving landowners here nuts is people that pick pooh in a bag then chuck it in a bush or a tree.
Parish's can put up dog bins but individual landowners do not have to and if a Right of Way is across a private field or like us along the Itchen Navigation people do not like to carry the pooh so far to the next pooh bin.
Not to mention the NIMBY brigade who rightly or wrongly move next to an open space and then do npt allow dog bins near their fences, the one regulation is that the bin can be emptied near to a vehicular access. Which usually means a road, so Council's tend to try and fence areas and not allow dogs in.

Also amusing (Not) is where we go to a tourist area where 8 Highland cattle are, Ive washed Whistler again this morning so its time to move to another walk where they aren't. Yet we have to pick up our pooh - fine - but cows can go a hell of a lot in a day and its almost knee deep there.

Its a no win situation but! its still recommended that Parish Council's do not ban dogs unless they allow an area where they can be walked so its not all bad news. But you cant ban non dog lovers there either.

Personally I think the only answer is very severe penalties for anyone that allows their dog to be a problem.  There are as many smartly dressed well educated folks in their 30s to 70s who don't pick up after their dogs as there are yobs failing to.

When at the holiday park there's a large turn around of dogs every week due to holiday makers and I'm forever handing bags to folks who pretend they didn't see their dog relieving itself   Some are surprised and red faced enough to pick up when pointed out to them but others give off a mouthful of abuse and as mentioned there's no obvious age, gender, social class for offenders - the only things they have in common are dogs, bad manners and selfishness.

It's the same on the beach - babies soiled nappies, a multitude of picnic remnants, lager cans/bottles yet the very people who care not at leaving this stuff behind them give me hassle when I walk the dogs through the gate even though they are on leads, being taken to an area where they wont get in anyone's way and I have a pocket full of poo bags.   I couldn't physically carry bags large enough or strong enough to pick up a fraction of the human mess that I don't want to be subjected to!

As for dogs behaving improperly off lead, again it's a manners issue IMO and nothing to do with education.  I do what I can to be sure my dogs are not a nuisance to anything, man or beast, but regularly find myself trying to stay calm and keep them calm while someone who couldn't care less allows their dog(s) to chage mine and generally be at best a nuisance and more often than not a liability. 

If only we could get the ever growing PC brigade onto putting their efforts into drilling basic good manners into all of the population we'd be sorted - but as lowly dog owners we appear to have no voice.

> Yet we have to pick up our pooh - fine - but cows can go a hell of a lot in a day and its almost knee deep there.
>

Cow pooh is from a herbivorous animal so it doesn't pose the same health risks as pooh from meat eaters (you can put herbivorous animal pooh ie, rabbit droppings, in a normal compost bin, but pooh from meat eaters requires a high temp to destroy the harmfull bacteria present in it)

Since I've moved to the outskirts of a town I miss the fresh, 'country side' smell of cow pat-splatted fields :(

Ain't nuttin' wron' wi' a bit o' cow pooh :) that's meant to be my 'Glo-er-shire' (Gloucestershire) accent

I know but in a small office our surveyor Gareth calls my cocker "Stench". If we go up the local park its 'orse pooh and he eats it!! I keep pet wipes and pet shampoo in the office loo for morning emergancies, we tell anyone thet uses the loo "dont use the one on the radiator its for the dogs, use the one on the door".
The countryside is lovely but at muck spreading time of the year whew, I can also tell cow and pig from a few miles away if the winds in the right direction.

Thanks for your comments , I am going to suggest my friend takes a look at some of these before she goes to the conference it may make for some interesting discussions and suggestions from a wider audience then will attend I hope you dont mind ?
It is sad that dog ownership has become such an issue but as someone comment it is propberly bound up with a percieved change in soicla behaviour generally. I even found myself thinking that maybe it is going to have to be a requirement that ALL dogs are muzzeled when out in these areas,very sad as some of areas oi question are large open spaces not city parks and we all enjoy and should be able to enjoy walking our dogs freely.
Maybe a return to the dog licence system but with requirements a bit like a driving licence afterall training classes are readily available now but not enforceable. ?