Could I mention that the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Breed suffers from a serious MVD Heart Problem .

I have collected about 100 Pedigrees of Cavaliers already suffering from a Heart Condition, about a Month of having their Vaccination ,their Heart Problem suddenly worsened and they died shortly after-wards .

If a Dog of any Breed is already suffering from a Heart Condition ,should they be being Vaccinated.?

Bet Hargreaves

No is the answer. the manufacturers own guidance states that only healthy animals should be vaccinated. However my father's Cavalier died as a result of his Lepto vax, before this he was a very fit & active 8 year old with a perfect heart(current cardiologist test)yet within three hours of his Lepto vax he was dead, he never came home from the surgery & the reaction started within minutes of being given the vax(before my father had a chance to pay. )His father still had a clear heart at 15 when he died

from the Intervet site

Contra-indications, warnings, etc.

Only healthy animals should be vaccinated.   The vaccine may not be effective in animals incubating the disease at the time of vaccination.

A good immune response is reliant on the reaction of an immunogenic agent and a fully competent immune system.   Immunogenicity of the vaccine antigen will be reduced by poor storage or inappropriate administration.  Immunocompetence of the animal may be compromised by a variety of factors including poor health, nutritional status, genetic factors, concurrent drug therapy and stress.

Some animals may be immunologically incompetent and fail to respond to vaccination.

Animals that have received the corresponding anti-serum or immunosuppressive drugs should not be vaccinated until an interval of at least 4 weeks has elapsed.

My dog was diagnosed with a serious heart condition over 2 years ago and has continued to have her vaccinations regularly without problem.  She is now 14 years old and I would not like her to have to cope with any disease on top of her heart condition.  I doubt she would survive that.  I am also conscious that she will definately die of her heart condition some time after her vaccination and there is no less than a 1 in 12 chance she will die within a month of it ;-)

>I am also conscious that she will definately die of her heart condition some time after her vaccination and there is no less than a 1 in 12 chance she will die within a month of it 

The marvel that is statistics. ;-)

So both you & your vet go against the vaccine manufacturers own guidelines, so glad your vet isn't mine.

My Dad's dog didn't have any health problems before he died & to die within three hours of being vaccinated & to develop problems within minutes of being vaccinated, but the vaccine IYO wasn't the factor that caused his death ! He wasn't elderly he was only 8 years old.

It was just chance was it a 1 in 365 chance that he died the same day that he was vaccinated & a 1 in 24 chance that he died within a day of being vaccinated, which makes it a minimum 1 in 8760 chance of it being related to the vaccination or 1 in 3,156,000 that he died at the second he did on the day he did in a year in which he was vaccinated IYO

Wonderful what you can do with figures isn't it !

> So both you & your vet go against the vaccine manufacturers own guidelines

Yes, we do.  I can understand completely why the manufacturers distance themselves from a clinical decision that they cannot be a party to, not being there to examine the dog and their medical record, but the risk of disease does not go away for dogs with a chronic illness.  Far from it, they are often the ones at the most risk of succumbing to it.  There is nothing to stop vets, like doctors, prescribing a drug that is not even licenced for the condition they are treating if they are able support that decision with sound clinical reasoning.

> It was just chance was it a 1 in 365 chance that he died the same day that he was vaccinated & a 1 in 24 chance that he died within a day of being vaccinated, which makes it a minimum 1 in 8760 chance of it being related to the vaccination or 1 in 3,156,000 that he died at the second he did on the day he did in a year in which he was vaccinated IYO
>
> Wonderful what you can do with figures isn't it !

Yes :-) although not sure where your 1 in 24 figure has come from!

>Yes :-) although not sure where your 1 in 24 figure has come from!

hours in a day ?

Pity then that the PM showed it was the vaccine that caused the immune system over reaction so it wasn't such a chance was it ? 1 in 1 actually. In an otherwise perfectly healthy dog

a 1 in 24 chance that he died within a day of being vaccinated
Mmm.  I would say, if vaccination was annual, the probabilities there are 1 in 365 which you had already including in your calculations.  I think you perhaps are meaning within an hour of vaccination :-) But never mind, it's all irrelevant to the point I am making :-)

> Pity then that the PM showed it was the vaccine that caused the immune system over reaction so it wasn't such a chance was it ?

A PM, when done by an appropriately qualified veterinary scientist :-), may well be conclusive.  I would not deny that severe adverse reactions are not possible. However, the research evidence we have indicates they are very rare.
My point is an apparent statistical connection is not evidence as so many other factors not least simple probabilities play their part.

My dog was diagnosed with a heart condition earlier this year, aged almost 12.
Many years ago I decided against routine boosters so thankfully I do not have the vaccination dilemma :)

I know 3 cavs with heart conditions and have their boosters every year, I have never thought about it before, but I don't think I would vaccinate either

Linda

before I start I have to say I was totally  unaware that dogs with heart murmurs should not be vacc'd.  My do had to have an heart operation aged just 12 weeks she has heart murmur scored 5 ( now  3) by the queen mothers hospital for small animals cardio dept, now this is why I am suprised the cardiologist requested she have the vaccination never once was it mentioned that perhaps she shouldnt.  We are going back there for her two year check up in march so I will definately be asking about it now has left me very unsure of what I want to do in the future now!

I never knew either

> before I start I have to say I was totally unaware that dogs with heart murmurs should not be vacc'd
>never once was it mentioned that perhaps she shouldnt.

Perhaps because it is not contraindicated :-)  I hope your specialist can reassure you.