hi, just wondered what the breeders on herre do with their older girls when they have finished having litters.
mine are also x show girls, they are spayed and stay with me till there time on this earth is over,same with my older boys.
i know some that some rehome as soon as they have finished there breeding life, some even before the milk has dried up.
Just wanted some opinions, as mine are all part of my family not a means to an end.

All mine stay with me forever wouldnt dream of letting them go but i suppose if you have numerous four foots it could be a better option to let them go  to forever pet homes

Mine stay with me to the end of their days  -could not bear the thought of them going anywhere else,they are very much a part of the family (my youngest  son says their treated better than what he was !)

Well, I doubt anyone will come on and admit they get rid of them as soon as they cant have puppies...

I don't breed but I have seen old girls and boys past breeding for sale and even in rescues although they could be puppy farm inmates that have been saved.

The thought of 'good' breeders getting rid of the old girls/boys once they are no longer productive is repugnant, it's like they've past their useful time, and implies that they are pieces of breeding equipment and not loved as family pets.
I'd like to think that 'good' breeders don't do this and keep them as you do until their time comes, both boys and girls.

Breeders that do do it to me are not good breeders/owners and it's doubtful that they could be educated to change their ways.

my breeder keeps hers unless she has someone that can give them a better life, living in being a pet foe example as most of hers are kennel dogs. she gave up one of hers to me knowing she would live indoors and could lounge around as she pleased.

> my breeder keeps hers unless she has someone that can give them a better life, living in being a pet for example as most of hers are kennel dogs.

I suppose there is some sense in that and it is nicer for the dog to live out it's days as a pet rather than in a kennel, but wouldn't it have been even nicer if during it's breeding career it was also a pet living indoors. It still makes me feel as though they are viewed as pieces of equipment past their sell by date. If I were to breed my dogs would still always be my pets first.

My dogs are here for life, not just a few litters!

I wouldn't but I know people who do and I feel that is entirely up to them.

Why wouldn't you Isabel?
Because you care for and love your dogs as pets.

Yes it is entirely up to those that do dispose of their dogs after breeding has ended but it doesn't mean it's morally right.

yeh , this lady has bred for over 30 yrs and is very well known and respected, she only breeds from the best bitches but sometimes you cant tell how they turn out, so as she is so picky over what she breeds from she always end up with more than she actually breeds from. she currently has around 16 or so some kenneled some not. So she lets the older girls or the girls or boys that dont quite make it go to homes but she is really fussy who they go to so some stay longer than others, the more senior ones that she cant bear to lose live in, think she would have them all live in if it was possible!!

some breeders love and care for their dogs which is why they let dogs/bitches they no longer show go to pet homes.  It often gives the dogs more one on one attention as there are less dogs to contend with, they get treated more like a pet, especially with the case of kennel dogs.

One of my boys didnt make the mark showing wise and I could never move him on.

I dont agree with breeders who "use" bitches for breeding and then sell them on but if they love their dogs and are doing it for their dogs then I dont see a problem.  Most tend to go to homes who have already had a pup from that particular breeder.

> Yes it is entirely up to those that do dispose of their dogs after breeding has ended but it doesn't mean it's morally right.

I don't have any problem with the morals of it if it is done with the same ethics and responsibility as placing puppies.

>Most tend to go to homes who have already had a pup from that particular breeder.

this was true when i got my older bitch. i say older she was only 3 but had 2 c sections so could not be resonsibly bred from again

> some breeders love and care for their dogs which is why they let dogs/bitches they no longer show go to pet homes.

There's an element in there that makes me feel that the business of showing is more important than what they show with i.e. the dog. :(

> I dont agree with breeders who "use" bitches for breeding and then sell them on but if they love their dogs and are doing it for their dogs then I dont see a problem

Even that it doesn't sit right with me, if they love their dogs how can they part with them?

I keep mine too, my Rosie is 10, my Daisy 8 - obviously both retired, but I wouldn't dream of 'getting rid' of them, this year my Jasmine and Poppy both retire too, again they will stay.

After my Lily had an emergency spaying during her c-section last year, I had 'thought' about letting her go to my husbands Aunty, who also has a daughter of Lily's but I just couldn't bring myself to do it, so she too is here enjoying life lying in front the fire on these cold evenings.

> if it is done with the same ethics and responsibility as placing puppies.

I would like to think that breeders who do place ex breeding stock do do it with as much care and attention as when placing puppies, and I'm sure the majority do, but it still makes me feel as though there is an element of disposabilty going on.

i think what people are getting at that most breeders will keep a dog if its good for the breeder and the dog but if the breeder feels the dog will be better off with somebody else who will have more time
to love that dog breeders make this decision. i cant imagine its ever taken lightly and i think to give up a dog that you must be attached to for it to have a better life ithink this is actually responsible. The lady i had mine off although she has 16 she has cried buckets and buckets each time i have bought from her as she is sad to see them go. She recently sold me a bitch that was the only living relative of her two favourite champions, she is extremely showable and it was not for money it was because she knew that the bitch would be living indoors sleeping on sofas beds and be loved. It was done for the bitch's good.

We have 2 cavaliers, both girls and although we dont breed, the thought of having to give them up for any reason upsets me. I was looking on the internet over the weekend and came across a woman who had a very pretty, kc reg  ruby cav for sale....2yrs old, already had 2 litters, no vaccinations and was up for sale at 350......further down the page was an ad from the same woman saying she had a litter of 8wk old cavs, no vaccinations, kc reg and ready to go!!!!!!! The mind boggles. We rang her with regard to buying the bitch, but she already had 2 ppl there "looking her over" and checking her pedigree. We asked her to ring us back if she didnt sell her...we really wanted to give her a loving home...she never rang back.

We haven't had any litters yet but I show my dogs and they stay with me for life whether they make the grade or not.  2 of my dogs I am unable to now show due to them having problems but that just means I wait until I have the space to take on anymore.  They definitely do not get moved on.
I would also not buy a pup from someone who rehomes their older bitches.  Whether or not they think they'll have a better life - in my opinion they wanted the dog so they should provide it with the best life. 

> in my opinion they wanted the dog so they should provide it with the best life.

I think that is what they consider they are doing :-)  As I say, I personally could not bring myself to do it but I can also see it would be arrogant of me to consider that it is only myself that could offer them a good home and a good life.

To put it onto the foot, so to speak, there are people who don't want to have a puppy, for whatever reason. They could have a lovely home waiting for an older dog where it could live out it's life with comfort. I must admit to liking the puppy stage, you can mould the puppy into the household a lot easier than an older dog, but some people just prefer older dogs. I rehomed one of my bitches to a lovely home (2 of my bitches were fighting) and never regretted it once the tears stopped, and the guilty feeling went. She was far happier in a one dog household. Should I have kept her at home, for my benefit? Sometimes you just have to pass them on to a better home. In saying that though, I tend to keep the oldies here unless there are exceptional circumstances.

i think to give up a dog that you must be attached to for it to have a better life ithink this is actually responsible.

I'm sure you're right and that the good breeders don't take these decisions lightly, but I'm not convinced and still feel that if I were a breeder it is something I could and would not do.
I would not allow myself to have so many that I didn't have enough time for all of them.

thanks for the reply, your son must have been talking to mine LOL

There are two sides to every coin and while mine are with me for life I have met a couple of people, one very elderly lady, who have taken on and given ex breeding bitches a forever home.  They are adored and treated as the much loved pets they are.

Mine have always and will always be much loved and cherished family pets  - family members TBH would be more accurate :)  Some have shone in the show ring and others merely glimmered, it matters not to us.  They have a permanent place in our heart and home from the moment they arrive whether that be transported from their breeder in the car or magically by stork into our bedroom.

The family that plays together stays together - forever :) 'stolen and tweaked' but sums it up!

> I have met a couple of people, one very elderly lady, who have taken on and given ex breeding bitches a forever home. They are adored and treated as the much loved pets they are.

I'm sure they are and no doubt they are happy well loved dogs, it's not the people that take them in that is my concern, it's the people that let them go that bother me.

To me they are pets first then show/breeding dogs, but then I'm a soppy old moo :p:

> magically by stork into our bedroom.

I like the stork idea :-D

> it's not the people that take them in that is my concern,

I think that is the difference between the two schools of thought on this.  To me that is the most important element but I also think if that has been the most important element to a breeder they are not a bad lot either :-)

I've met a breeder(of long standing & very good quality dogs)who lets her older dogs go(including Champions)to people who are waiting for an older dog from her. What they get is a well schooled, well behaved healthy dog that in return for giving their first owner pleasure in the ring(& sometimes the whelping box)is given an indoor comfortable forever home were they are loved by their devoted owners. Their dogs are really happy & I know people who have got an older dog from the breeder & the dogs are absolutely fine.

Not something I could do, but the breeder has the quality of life her dogs can have in forever pet homes in the forefront of her thinking

>> it's not the people that take them in that is my concern,

Maybe tiny misinterpretation of what I meant here.  Of course those taking in the ex breeding/show dogs are vitally important and a good breeder/show owner would want to know that their dog is going to a good home, I'm not saying they (breeder/show owners) are 'bad lot', I just find the idea of disposing of the dogs once they are no longer useful unpleasant.

> I've met a breeder(of long standing & very good quality dogs)who lets her older dogs go(including Champions)to people who are waiting for an older dog from her. What they get is a well schooled, well behaved healthy dog that in return for giving their first owner pleasure in the ring(& sometimes the whelping box)is given an indoor comfortable forever home were they are loved by their devoted owners. Their dogs are really happy & I know people who have got an older dog from the breeder & the dogs are absolutely fine.
>

All of that is lovely and I'm glad the dogs concerned are all well and happy, BUT I still have more admiration for the breeder/show owner that keeps all of their dogs.

> My dogs are here for life, not just a few litters!

Totally agree!  I have more neutered dogs than entire, and they are all loved the same.  Some have never been bred from, those that have had mostly just the one litter. 

When I sit down with all the gang round me, I couldn't let any of them go.  The relationship they have with me and with each other is wonderful.  No fighting or quarreling between them, and I love to watch them interact.  We do just fine as we are. :-)

> I just find the idea of disposing of the dogs once they are no longer useful unpleasant.

That is quite emotive language :-).  On one level it is just how it is but on another the breeders I know would never see it as "disposing" or "no longer useful".  They would see it as placing bitches carefully in good homes to allow them to enjoy life as a pet having made their contribution to the breeders plan to improve the quality of their dogs they are contributing to the gene pool. 

> That is quite emotive language :-).

OK Isabel, take out the 'disposing' and replace with 'placing' and take out the 'no longer useful' and replace with 'no longer contributing to the gene pool', very pretty words that to me amount to the same thing :)

Hi Pinky

Some show breeders will keep their dogs in kennels - having many more dogs than a lot of us posting on here.  In those circumstances much as they will love and care for their dogs, the sheer number of them probably means that it's rare they get much 1-2-1 time in the same as mine or anyone else here's does.  Perhaps rather than a retired show dog or brood bitch seeing out it's latter life in kennels these breeders feel it better that they move onto a proper 'pet home' where they have the opportunity to enjoy family life rather than kennel life :)

It's not for me or mine nor is it the case with any of the breeders from whom I've had dogs but in larger 'establishments' rather than folks like ourselves it would IMO be preferable for older dogs/bitches to enjoy a better quality of life.

Hope that explains things a little.  Teri

Hi Teri

I take on board what you say and maybe there is a need for some breeders to place older dogs. I would however if I were a breeder be following your example.

Maybe smaller is more beautiful :)

> Maybe smaller is more beautiful

I think so - even the 'stork' has her permanent spot on the pillow here (it's getting a little cramped :-D )

Teri

I'll bet it's a comfy pillow though :-D

We keep ours , we have a 12 and 13 year old , never bred from , pets first , showing 2nd .. however what other people do is entirely up to them , their choices at the end of the day, not up to anyone else to judge or decide 

never have and never will move on any of my dogs, regardless of age, sex, entire or not, breeding bitches or not, all spayed and castrated dogs of mine are treated the same as everyone, if kids didnt grow up as we might of expected would anyone 'get rid' of them. Everyone has there own way of looking at it but personally...any dog that comes into my family stays here until the end of their days and if the hubby tried to argue...well...get your suitcase!

mine stay. they are part of the family, not a commodity to be got rid of. :(

> Mine have always and will always be much loved and cherished family pets  - family members TBH would be more accurate :-)  Some have shone in the show ring and others merely glimmered, it matters not to us.  They have a permanent place in our heart and home from the moment they arrive whether that be transported from their breeder in the car or magically by stork into our bedroom.

Same here - and you put it so well Teri :)

i think it is up to everyones personal choice and circumstances at the time there maybe valid reasons for letting a dog go. although i dont agree with shipping them out and getting another in because its past its sellby but if the individual dog would do better in a 1-1 enviroment then i think as said its personal choice

i know everyone has different opinions but im very grateful to my breeder for my bitches as they are very very special.
me personally no they would stay no matter what, however in my breeders defence she does it for the dogs well being

The dogs came to us as invited guests none of them asked to live with us but they put up with us unquestionably.
I could never ever move on any of mine  on through choice and if I really had to give up my girls as I,ve said before if I could not manage them I,d rather they were put painlessly to sleep tham pass them on to anywhere else.

I usually keep mine for life.  Only one has gone to a new home at the age of 7 (bearing in mind her mum lived until she was 15).  This was not even something I was contemplating but someone who had bought a SWD from me 12 years before phoned looking for another dog as his companion had died and he wasn't coping well.  After a lot of deliberation I decided to let Carina go, for free to hopefully help him.

Fortunately he had another year of a wonderful life before passing away with cancer.  I get e-mails all the time from the new owner saying how well she is doing etc.  Works at an army base, has her own pass and everything and is leading a wonderful life on all accounts.

Like Moonmaiden I know somebody who lets their dogs go when they've finished breeding, even if Champions, to perfect pet homes. The way she reasons is that she knows they will be much loved pets with a lot of attention, and if she was to keep all the dogs, she would soon have more than she could cope with -or she would have to stop breeding until the oldies had died off. I can see her point and I don't blame her for doing it -she's so careful with the homes. But personally I cannot do it. We can't all be the same.

mine all stay even the one that came to stay when she was 9 weeks old. Some one had used one of my dogs, was keeping his daughter but hit health problems and asked me to have the pup until she was well enough to walk the pup etc. That was 3 years ago !!!! we just fell in love with her and could let her go back.
The lady in question did have a free stud last year for a repeat mate and kept a girl.
Also hate the term STOCK they are not boxes on a shelf in a store room.

lol frenzy....its not "stock" as in a stock room.....its "stock" as in livestock! :)