Here is the situation.

Recently separated from my partner, I now find myself alone to look after my 2 Golden Retrievers. This means they've had to get used to being left on their own for longer periods while i'm at work. I know it is less than ideal but that is life, not always fair and definitely unpredicatble...
I love my dogs like my own children, and dedicate most of my time and money to them when i am not at work. They have been ok so far.

Tessa is 9 month old and i'm expecting her first season any day. being a bit of a naughty puppy already, I am starting to get worried sick over how she's going to react to being on her own. The deal was indeed that my older boy was to be sent away to my brother's for the few critical weeks. Thing is, she has never been truly on her won before and I fear she's not going to react very well...

Now, I've managed to negociate working half days from my employer during the time of her season by using up my last holidays left for this year.That way, I can contemplate crating her as it would only be 4-5 hours at a time. I have been reluctant to use the crate, first because I can't help finding it cruel (silly me) and also because I didn't want to separate her from Sam and finally because she can't humanely be stuck in there for hours. But I think that in this instance, it is the key for my peace of mind, knowing she's not wrecking the place up as a reaction from being left alone and without her friend Sam. To be honest, it would be an added bonus if she would take to it, for shows or when staying at someone's house etc...

Now, how best to introduce her to a crate and solitude at her age, bearing in mind she is a very stubborn, strong-minded and fairly naughty little miss!!
Would you recommend things such as DAP diffusers or homeopathy to help her?

Thanks ever so much for your help. I'm having sleepless nights over this.
Feeling so down already...

Not getting at you directly Gaelle but I hate the current trend towards 'if you have a dog you must have a cage'. I work and have 4 dogs and I wouldn't consider caging them while I'm out (or in). I know it's increasingly becoming the norm but in my opinion cages are for hamsters. For a very long time people have brought up dogs without cages, between my Mum and myself we've probably had around 40 pups. Yes, occasionally pups and young dogs eat things like skirting boards but in my opinion that's just one of those things. My youngest ate the lino in the kitchen twice!

You don't know your girl is going to be destructive? She may be perfectly happy and if not there are other options. Many if not most boarding kennels will take in season bitches, even for day boarding. A dog walker could come in half way through the day and walk her - in my experience a tired dog is a well behaved dog :-)

When my ex moved in with me 9 years ago he bought a GSD pup as we worked different hours so she wouldn't be left alone for too long. She wasn't a breed I would have ever
chosen. When things didn't work out he moved out and moved 90 miles away and left me with her. She was less than a year old but as me and my children were so attached to her we were determined that it would work.

i just gave her a routine. Getting up at 6am and walking her for an hour and then again after tea we took her out for another hour. I found if I confined her she chewed but when I gave her the run of the house with plenty of toys she was fine.

Fortunately my kids were at an age were it wasn't long before they could come home  for lunch and then back again at 3.30.

I know some people find cages useful but I wouldn't be happy to put a dog in one for any length of time.    

Instead of crating her , why don't you make an area/room as dog proof as possible and leave her with toys and a stuffed Kong ?
How about taking your boy out a couple of times to get her gradually used to being alone ?

hi Gaelle
Ive had the problem with one of my goldies as i think ive told you on other posts,with being destuctive when left for short periods.
I found the only way to solve this was with plenty of excercise before leaving her alone. I also used a child gate to restrict her from areas i didnt want her in. I never used a crate as am also not a big fan of them.
Maybe you could get one of your family or a friend to take her a couple of times a week to help you out a little.

I have never even owned a crate with my previous dogs and used to think it is not good for them. I too would have been one of the people telling you to dog proof area of the house for her...
Now I have actually changed my mind about crates slightly.

My girl was never crate trained (16months old and never even seen a crate!) but when she was hit by a car she had to get used to spending three weeks in a crate, 24/7...
She adapted so well and we never really had any problems except odd little pawing to say can I come out.
She was not left on her own at all for the first weeks tho, which must have helped.
She is now well enough for me to get rid of the crate but I don't think we will :)

She has not yet been left alone for longer than few hours but I can definately see a difference in her behaviour when left in the crate or left free in the house!
She is much more calm and doesn't get mad when we come home which makes me think she doesn't stress so much about us leaving her when crated...
The neighbours have also told me when she was left free in the house she cried after us... but not when left in the crate!
She also spends her nights in the crate as she can no longer come upstairs with us(decision made when she couldn't, not that she physically can't now).Again she settles in the crate but cries after us if left free downstairs...
I think the sleeping in the crate over night has made her connect sleep/relaxed and crate meaning when she is left crated she goes to sleep.
She also takes herself in the crate when she wants to sleep so I can say she has taken to it well :D

So crate can be used to make the dog relax when left alone, not just to stop the dog destroy the house :)!

I have no idea of "formal" crate training but maybe popping her in to chew a bone and have a nap would be a start?
Having the door open if necessary, you sitting next to the crate?
If she likes to be petted, do relaxed petting massaging sessions while she is in the crate?
Put the crate next to the sofa so you can watch tv together while you pet...
I would say the trick is to do your best getting her to like the crate as a comfy bed, not connect being left on her own and crate until she is liking the crate loads :D

Thank you all for your answers.
Oh i don't know what to think now!
I know she first needs to be used to be left alone, gradually, without my other dog. And i'm going to start this week.
Now, about proofing an area, i've already done my best, the room they're left in is the "animal room" where the guinea pigs hutches and all animal accessories (food, hay etc) is stored. It's the messy room in the middle of the house. Now the problem is that i ma renting this place which makes me more anxious about it not getting too damaged! I don't think i would stress so much over it if it were mine! She still manages to find new things to chew or dig despite all the wire fences (from guineas' runs!) i've put all around the room and on the floor... 
I can only consider crating her because it would be temparary and not too long since I can come home early for that period of time. But I'm not a fan of the concept.
Oh! I feel so confused now! I guess I'm a bit of a nervous wreck at the moment and can't think clearly... Never wanted to end up alone... I have no real friends in the area and all my family lives back home in France so i'm really alone with my problems!

I really feel for you Gaelle, I had exactly the same situation when I was living in NZ with my 1st husband.  I'm sure you are feeling very alone but you will find (as I did) that when you have other creatures to look after that you will find the strength to get through this and each day will get easier as new routines are formed. 

In terms of the crate, it sounds like it could help you as you say it is not your own home.  Why don't you start her off gradually, like putting her in when you are cooking or for just half an hour at a time or even when you feel she is ready for a nap.  At least you can monitor her reaction before you need to leave her in it by herself.

If you make it into a really snug den , with an old towel or blanket over the top , you might even find them both cuddled up together in there !!!

Hi,

When my daughter and her husband returned from Africa they brought with them two African dogs who had never been in a house hardly, let alone a crate. When they got them home the two dogs started to destroy the whole house, and in desparation asked me what could be done. My son-in-law is a doctor of veterinary medicine and was totally against crates. So you can imagine how popular my suggestion was.

Anyway having persuaded him to give it a go he was amazed in the end that given to opportunity the dogs actually preferred to stay in their crates! In fact he told me that he would have to tip one end of the crates up sometimes to persuade them to come out of them! lol Bear in mind these dogs were pretty much feral dogs.

To start with I told him to set up the crates and put some nice bedding in them, cover the top, sides and back with something they could not pull into the cage and eat, (incase they chewed and ate a large piece of blanket and then got blockage problems from doing that), then to put treats in them (neither dog was interested in toys), and allow the dogs to wander in and out as they pleased, then after a few days to put in a treat and then close the door for a few minutes at a time, gradually over a number of weeks extending this until they could be left while my daughter and he were out. Now he recommends a crate as a useful tool in the dog owners kit, if used properly.

I agree Tigger2 we are crate user's, as pups to get them used to them, but, I use them now only as their "bedrooms". I had to erect one on our recent holiday on a canal boat as my cocker cried all night first night and only settled when he was crated night two border collie sleeps anywhere. We ended up 4 in a bed first night good job it was freezing cold out there.

Mine go into their crates each night without prompting, but I would not, nor have I needed to crate them during the day not since they were about 3 months old!! and I went to Sainsburys for an hour.

I think crating a 9 month old who is not crated now is not a good idea, you have a big dog and unless its a HUGE crate she would feel confined in a prison. Could you not using a baby gate ect confine her to a room ie kitchen or area?

I am not one of the brigade that feels a change of circumstances should mean you shouldn't have a dog as you obviously you love them to bits, but she should be ok for up to 4 hours with a shoe or coat of yours and in a situation and home that she is used to, I think you may be worrying yourself unnecassarily. Could you ask a neighbour to tell you if she howls whilst you are out? if she does not no problems. Put a radio on so the background noise is blanked out. You never know like most of us, downtime from a "man" in the house is pleasure indeed!!!

Hi Gaelle
I have 2 GSPs and I wish to goodness that they didn't love their crates so much, as then I could (without a guilty conscience) take the two 48" monstrosities down and pack them away in the shed and my lounge would then start to resemble a normal living room! :-)

Both of mine were introduced as pups to the crate, but I think that the same basic principles apply for an older dog.  Firstly, dogs love dens!  So, make the crate as den-like as possible.  Mine are spoilt, I know, but I have a kingsize duvet and several old blankets on the floor of the crate and another duvet which is tied and draped to pad the inside of the crate walls and roof.  Fiddly to do, but the dogs love it.  Start by feeding your pup in the crate and making it a nice place for him to go.  He has to WANT to go in it.  So, give him Kongs in it, give him bones in it, put his favourite toy in it.  To begin with just put the crate up and let him decide whether or not to go in it. Don't make a big fuss about it but if you make it a welcoming place, he should elect to go in it of his own free will.  When he does, you need to reinforce the behaviour by giving him a treat and making a big fuss of him.

Crates need to be introduced over a period of time and that is my one concern about your situation - whether you have enough time!  I would never shut the door on the crate during the inital familiarisation period, and then only when I was still in the room and I would chuck bits of kibble through the bars.  I would then wonder into another room for a few minutes and come back and then build on this principle again over a number of weeks until I could leave the house.  I would normally leave a radio on - tuned to a talk show channel to begin with so that the dog thinks someone is still around.  Obviously each dog is different, so timings vary and with some dogs you can progress quicker than with others.  Yes, DAP may help - it does some dogs, it didn't mine and be warned the plug-in spray stains painted walls!  :-(

I don't know if you already do so, but I would also suggest walking your two dogs seperately as much as possible as this will help your pup to be more independent and cope with being alone better.  Walk seperately, train seperately, play seperately.

Introduced properly, crates are a godsend and not cruel in the slightest if used sensibly.  I got a crate for my first GSP as I work from home and sometimes I need to give 100% attention to a conference call.  I can't be watching the pup all the time and diving off to rescue him from chewing electric cables or something else that he shouldn't.  It was to protect him more than the house that I got the crate.  Eventually, he outgrew it and we got through the chewing stage and he was allowed free run of the downstairs of the house.  A few years later I got another pup, so out came the crate again.  The first thing my 35kg male did was to limbo dance into this diddy puppy crate and snuggle up with his nose shoved up his tail! :-)  That became his place of choice as it was warm and secure and he preferred that over and above any of the armchairs!  So, I went and bought a 48" crate for him and eventually one for the pup to as she grew up.  Nowadays the doors are never closed on the crates, unless she is in season. 

Both dogs will take themselves off to their crates during the day for a snooze and will go to bed on command at night, even though I leave their crate doors open.
Introduced sensibly and used sensibly crates can be a bonus for both human and canine.

I think crates are very useful but personally feel 4-5 hours is far too long to use them during the day particularly for a such a large breed.  That length of time really requires a larger secure area.

Gaelle,

My dog LOVES his crate. He's very small and his crate is huge so he has plenty of room for moving around. We introduced him by only giving treats in the crate and nowhere else (except when training). Put lots of comfy blankets and a clip-on water bowl in there and cover with a blanket to create a 'den'.

We felt guilty at first shutting him in there for the few hours he was alone or when we were cleaning or doing DIY and he could get underfoot but now if we dont shut his door and put his blanket down, he grabs the corner of it and covers the door himself!

We never physically remove him from his crate and he really seems to fret when we are cleaning it out (he has a good sniff about to see whats changed) I'm sure he sees it as his safe space away from vaccuum cleaners and mummies too eager to play and hangs around in there like a sulky teenager with his toys and chewies.

As long as the dogs get lots of exercise and attention then I wouldn't feel guilty.

Hi Gaelle

> I guess I'm a bit of a nervous wreck at the moment and can't think clearly... Never wanted to end up alone... I have no real friends in the area and all my family lives back home in France so i'm really alone with my problems!

Firstly I'm sorry you are having a difficult time of it at the moment and anxiety about what to do for the dogs is bound to make it harder for you.  You'll all be going through such a change...

I think as others have said time may be against you a bit as getting a dog used to a crate usually starts early BUT we had an older dog who started using a crate at around 12 months.  He came to us a rescue and for the first few months slept in a bed in our utility room however it didn't quite fit so we kept shunting it around the floor!  When we went to stay at my Mums for a week Finn decided that he preferred the crate she used for one of her JR's - he would take up residence in this tiny crate, bits of him oozing out the sides, and refuse to budge.  I decided to buy him one as he liked it so much but also so that we could remove a cupboard at home to make more room for him but without losing too much storage space.  I found the structure helpful to protect his bed whilst enabling us to rebuild the storage around him.  We rarely used the door but as this was his favourite place in the house he didn't care (or notice) whether the door was open or closed!

When our youngest came along we bought him a crate and he's used it from 8 weeks old.  Ours are just beds with doors really and have always been used as such.  Going in, with doors closed, is a signal to them that they can switch off, relax and have a snooze.  I do this after walks if I'm going out for a short time and also at night.  if either dog is really tired or dopey this is where they put themselves to bed and also if we are late going to bed at night one or both will tend to make their way here without being asked.  I wouldn't dream of going out without exercising them first so the crates have always been associated with good quality upside down sleeping and nowadays if I've got perfume on, collect my handbag, looking for car keys etc they'll both just trundle off to bed without being asked.  My youngest is 18 months but in the early days with him, when he needed regular sleep time, I would often put Finn to bed at the same time - door shut - otherwise he would go and moon at the door peering at the puppy like a kid in a zoo - very unhelpful...  Putting Finn in his crate next door sent 'be calm and go to sleep' signals to the puppy.

I know it feels like you're alone with your problems but as far as the dogs go, you do have a bunch of us sitting at our keyboards with bits of advice and sending you lots of positive thoughts. :)

Hi Gaelle

I've only posted a couple of times on the website and had great replies but have never offered my own experience to anyone so here goes ..... 

When we first brought Cooper (Golden Retriever) home I was in two minds about crating him as I thought it was unfair to him being restricted but I didn't want to come down in the morning trying to find where he had wee'd in the middle of the night if we didn't hear him!  We opted for a puppy pen rather than the crate and I think this has been great.  The pen is around 5 foot square and was kept in the kitchen with his bed, water, toys etc.  When we were in we would keep the door to the pen open and he would come and go as he pleased.  He would go to his pen for a sleep.  He's now 8 months old and we do not use the pen any more in our house, he is restricted to the kitchen (albeit with a few scratch walls to begin with :-) )  He is happy being left alone for short periods.  When I have my mum look after him, she still uses the pen overnight as I don't want him scratching her walls.  When he sees the pen he sits waiting patiently for the door to be opened and he goes in and off to sleep.

Maybe another option rather than a crate.

Lisa

whats the difference between a puppy pen and a crate ? My gsd was in a 48" I call it crate (4 sides ,roof and door ) for the first year of his life and loved it. His sister who belongs to my sister still uses hers as it allows her peace and quiet from my 3 year old neice ! Admittedly both the dogs wwere started from the day we got them at 12wks not 9months. I would say give it a try and see how it goes, gentle small steps at first.

> whats the difference between a puppy pen and a crate ?

Size :-)  I'm guessing your 48" crate is about 30/31" on its other dimension giving about 10 square foot of floor space compared to a pen 5ft square giving 25 square foot.  Quite a difference in freedom to stretch about playing with toys or chews.

ah got you.

Well got the crate last night (won it on ebay without really trying!). It is pretty big actually and she doesn't look tight at all in it. I've put it in the little alcove where their bed usually is and where I know she goes to at night. I put their old blanket in it as the plastic dog bed really was too bulky. My other boy never really used beds and would rather sleep on the floor in the middle of the room. So it's always been her sleeping area really.
I got up in the night to go to the loo and I could see than she was sleeping in it! And again this morning, as I opened the door, she came out of it with her favourite toy in her mouth. At least she doesn't seem bothered about it and is happy to go in it on her own. Shall I just leave it like this for a while before trying to shut the door at all?
I am also going to try and leave her alone 10min today and see how she reacts.

Thank you all for your posts.

Gaelle

Hi Gaelle
Gunners post is excellent, completely agree.  Really good sign that she's going in by choice.  With regards to shutting the door, I started by closing the door (not even locking it, just pushing it to) whilst pup was eating and then opening before he'd finished.  Another top tip is to attach a filled kong to the back of the cage, and whilst they're busy with that close the door, and just gradually increase the time they're shut in for.  Sounds like you shouldn't have a problem but just remember not to let her out if she's crying.

Yes I find if OH tells Jake off at any time he retires to his bed/crate. We have a small kitchen diner and two big crates covered with bath towells to the sides and top. When we go off to a rugby match we open both crate doors and put the music on and they know its rest time.
If we are late up  Jake takes himself to bed, Whistler is usually asleep on the cushion in the lounge and "still" he was two yesterday, has to be carried to bed!!

I think crates are great for us but we also use them in the back of the 4X4 when they are caked in mud as well. A great invention but I would still not confime them in there for 4 hours or more, but there again we dont have to so were lucky in that.

well 2 weeks on, still no season... I have been leaving her alone an hour at a time with no problem at all. No barking, no particularly destructive behaviour (just the usual!). I did leave her after a good walk so she was just knackered and went straight in her crate to sleep. I have not tried to shut the door yet, as I'm thinking I'm not even going to bother.
That's a relief.
But now, I'm anxiously waiting for IT to happen, it's driving me mad, I'm going away in April with both dogs so she HAS to have her first season BEFORE or else way after... Knowing her... Oh dear!

Well i dont want to worry you but my young golden was 19months when she had her first season.
Vet told me the more of an athlete the dog is, they can very often be late having first season.

Mine does think she is a grey hound instead of a GR i think. lol

Glad your goldie is settling for you now.

Oh God!
She is very very active and when out in the open, it's impossible to stop her running and running and running... It's so annoying, I don't enter her to shows because I'm just not sure whether she will be able to go and don't want to waste my money! Can it be weather related? Will they react to the days being longer like other animals? Will the fact that I have an entire male here not "tickle" her?! Oh well, I'll just have to wait and pray that she avoids those 2 weeks in April where we're supposed to all go to France to visit my parents...