Can you tell me what you would consider normal practice.In the past with the ESS if we've used an un-proven dog then we have not paid the stud fee until after the pups have been born.With a proven dog then we've paid the fee up front although I know a lot that are willing to wait until pups are born. Also the fee is lower for an unproven dog?????
I've just contacted the owner of the stud dog I was intending to use for Bonnie(who came in today).He tells me that he's had it on good authority that the fee should either be paid in full up front(for an un-proven dog) or a fee and a pup if he waits for the litter to be born.
I'm sorry but I was gob-smacked....a fee and a pup....I don't think so do you
I know it's ESS but the guidelines surely are the same whatever the breed
Input please

In my experience, the practise tends to vary enpormously between the breeds & it might be a good idea to seek advice from a fellow ESS breeder. I think its quite acceptable to pay at the time of the mating, even for an un used dog. It would also be good to have a free return. As for fee and a pup, well i guess it depends on the breed. In my breed, the fee is roughly the same as the cost of a pup, but in others it is only a fraction of the cost. Best to find out what your breeds norm is.
When it comes down to it, its at the stud dog owners discretion, and make sure you get everything written down & signed!

As far as I am aware it is the stud service you pay for and not puppies. Most stud dog owners want the money at the time of service and if no pups result they would normally give a free return (or if one pup is born and it is a Caesar I have had this offered).

Christine

I think this is one of those areas where everyone has heard of all sort of hard and fast rules - and they are all different! I always look at it that each mating needs the rules ironed out between both parties right at the start of things, so no misunderstandings later - and better to get it all down in writing, if possible. Having said that, we always wait for a stud fee from an un-proven dog, but this is just us, not even common practice among the whole of our breed. I would have thought that for most breeds a fee plus a puppy would be rather a lot! In my breed a top class dogs stud fee is about show puppy price, and a decent, but not spectacular dogs fee is about pet puppy price.

Has you bitch been mated before? If this is her first time too it might be an idea to look around for a proven dog. This gives you the advantage of hopefully being able to some of his progeny, so you can assess the suitability for you bitch more accurately.
Gwen

Sice posting this question I have actually managed to find another proven stud dog for a fraction of the price and a better pedigree,who is prepared to wait until the pups are born
so there you go

In my breed we would not consider waiting until the pups
are born. A fee is taken on the first mating and a return
mating offered if the bitch misses. However some people
do not offer a return mating free. Some bitch owners are known
to run after the mating and difficult to get hold off.
Just because the dog is cheaper it does not mean its a better
dog. You need someone that knows the breed well, who
knows what not to put together. Some pedigrees look great
on paper but can produce horrid pups. I did once put
two pedigree dogs together and the pedigree was red across
the whole 5 generations (all sh.ch.), with the exception of
one or two. That was the worst
litter I ever had. I would contact a breed club and ask for
advice and what stud to use. They will surely be helpful.
They will also point you in the direction of good stud owners.
Nutkin

From my 3 litters, I owned the dog for the first one, and Nos. 2 & 3 were by the same dog. His owners are very generous and do not take a stud fee until all the pups are sold. In cases of just one or 2 resulting pups they have waivered the fee, I cannot think of a more generous gesture than that. Stud fees in my breed are the same as puppy prices.

As for your ESS stud dog owner, I'd tell him to take a hike.......Stud fee and a pup, you'd know that he'd do with the pup-sell it on and make a big whack on a ESS puppy price too! :(

Christine

Christine they are real nice people ..

Pam

it did depends on who you are dealing with,i have a stud contract and payment up front the cost on a puppy,and no paper work untill the cheque gone though. with people i donot know,but to day rush went to a bitch that he mated before to a friend,which the friend as given me the cheque but i will not cash it untill i know that she in whelp,but she as no paper work yet,the reason i have not cash the money is if the bitch dose not take,she be 6 years old in march and she dose not want to breed from her at that age,

They are :D

I think you can see the practise varies and you have to do what feels right for you. My two-penn'orth - my boy was mated and I agreed to receive a stud fee when I knw the bitch had had her puppies as it was his first time. It was also to someone's bitch who I knew well. I think it depends if it is a maiden mating and on how well you know someone and trust them. No hard and fast rules - but a stud fee AND a puppy seems a bit optimistic!!

jmho

Pam n the boys

As it happens the dog I'm going to use now has similar bloodlines to my own bitch,he has sired 2 litters before and I have seen one of his pups (now 2) so I know what he can produce.I think some of you thought I was against paying up front....not the case if the dog is proven I don't have a problem or if they offer a free return then thats fine too.It was just the attitude of the bloke ..wanting £200 for an un-proven dog up front is not on .Or a fee and a pup after .his dog is not a registered as a stud dog (he has no intentions of doing so) and not that hot a pedigree.The one I'm going to use has far better bloodlines more compatible with my bitch,lots of champions and he's a really nice looking dog.His owners not bad either LOL

£200 stud fee? Consider your self lucky.....in my breed its minimum £600!!!

In my breed it is puppy price.

Yes but you probably get a lot for your pups.We only sell our for £200.I wasn't quibbling about the price just the fact that he wanted full whack up front for a dog that has never sired a litter,doesn't work ,has never trialed,is just a pet....yet he want's the same money as the top field trial dog in my area ...not on...just too greedy for his own good

Kia I dont know how it works there for unproven dogs. here it is no foal no fee . for proven dogs then its between owner and breeder whether they want a fee or a pup . Mari

in my breed bull terriers i would expect too pay £150 for a unproven
£200 for a proven dog but not a CH.
Then £250-£300 for a CH or a top producing stud dog.
if the bitch owner doesnt want too pay the fee upfront then i would ask for 2nd Pick of litter.
if i knew the owner well i would waiver it for a few weeks.
if i havent been payed a fee then sorry but no paperwork till i have either a puppy or the money.

our stud prices are considerabally low as a puppy would cost u now around £600

be careful
vicki

A while back I accidentally discovered that someone had 'justified' his dog's stud fee by saying (untruthfully) that I had charged him a good bit more for the use of one of my boys. Which was interesting, since, when he used my dog, the same person had tried to persuade me to reduce the stud fee by saying that Mrs X asked less for the use of her dog :-). I don't think this person is particularly greedy or even disreputable in any serious way, but suspect that he just can't resist bargaining :-).

I hope that as well as a low fee and a pedigree full of champions, you are taking into account the two most important aspects when looking for a stud - health and temperament. I personally would not even look at a dog unless he had been hip scored and any other necessary tests, and had a nice nature, remember most of your puppies will go as family pets.
I would rather pay more money for a sound dog than a low fee for a dog that had no health tests done, wether he was proven or not would not matter to me.

Yep he's been recently tested for heart murmurs+has current certs for eyetest and hip/elbow dysplasia

Nice one. That sounds like the dog to go for!