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By trishm
Date 20.01.09 14:53 UTC
Our 9 week old flatcoat retriever is very good in many ways - housetraining fantastic for example, but two problems are not improving at all.
Firstly, he is determined to eat his own poo. We are very quick to tempt him with a really tasty treat, and sometimes this works, but given any chance at all he whips round and scoffs the lot at an amazing speed! We are also trying 'Deter' inhis food, but, one week on,this doesn't seemto be making any difference. We have tried sprinkling with Tabasco but he ate it just the same. Help!
Secondly, he is really very aggressive with his biting. We have had a puppy before so know what to expect from play-biting but this is much worse. He can fly at your arm and really catch hold and won't let go + he attacks legs with some force. We have tried saying no very firmly, and ignore him, but this is sometimes impossible if he has actually sunk his teeth well into your ankle and won't let go! I wouldn't worry too much but if anything he seems to be getting worse rather than better.
I really want to enjoy him but this is making us all rahter tense and anxious because taking him outside has become a trial and playing with him positively dangerous.
I would really appreciate some advice.
By tadog
Date 20.01.09 14:55 UTC
Why havent you asked the breeders advice? That would be my first call.
Do talk to your breeder - that's what they are there for. They should have heaps of experience with puppies and will be able to advise - if not they should have an experienced mentor that can talk to.
At 9 weeks he's presumably only been with you for a very short time so it's such early days. Many pups eat poo so you needn't worry about it too much just make sure he never gets the chance. If you've got time to sprinkle Tabasco on his poo you've plenty of time to pick it up!! All you did was season it for him...
Make sure you go outside with him every 20 or 30 minutes in the beginning and give him plenty of rewards for going on command, be ready with treats and praise and ensure that successful outings are followed by a play time. He'll soon learn to come straight to you for a fun time after he performs and he won't have time to do anything else. Whilst he is distracted by a favourite toy, or something exciting, quickly scoop the poo into a bag when he isn't looking. Even if this doesn't work you should just stand behind him and be quicker than he is - throw a ball to get him to move away if necessary or keep him on a lead in the garden til he has finished. He can come off lead as soon as you've cleaned up after him. Don't leave him outside on his own.
Talk to your breeder about his meals, you'll find that you do need to increase portions quite regularly as he is growing at a super fast rate. Our gundog was a gutsy boy til he was about 13 months when it levelled off a bit. Some puppies explore their entire world 'mouth first' - everything goes in to be checked and only some of it comes back out again!!
There will be others along soon with info about the biting but it does sounds like normal puppy stuff even if it's a bit more full on that you are used to. Ours would like to ambush us at the bottom of the stairs or when we came out of the toilet door - it was mostly enthusiastic greeting behaviour but does need to be managed. Keep a selection of swap toys handy, keep your hands flat at your sides, stop walking if he grabs your trouser legs and do not engage in play time at HIS request. Perhaps if has a 'hold' you can ask for a sit or something you want and then treat, our boys don't ever get a greeting until their butts are on the floor; they soon work it out and now walk backwards sitting every 2 seconds!! All of this helped us. Exercise caution about the type of play you initiate; low key 'fun' training may be more sensible rather than vigorous play with toys for instance. Stop before it gets silly (just like kids they do not know when to stop and can get overtired and difficult!) and teach him a cease command like stop, finished, all done, over. We would always conclude with a treat and some quiet time.
Try not to worry too much - take a deep breath and rethink your strategies and timings - lack of sleep with young puppies and an intense desire to do the right thing can warp your perspective for a while!! Take care :)
By trishm
Date 20.01.09 16:35 UTC
Many thanks for taking the time to reply so thoughtfully.
We do pick up his poo straightaway; we would never leave either poo or puppy outside on their own! The Tabasco was something someone recommended so we had left a 'doctored' poo in the hope that it would put him off altogether - hmm...as you say, the best-laid plans! We do exactly as you say ....try to distract him, reward him, get him inside then pick it up. The problem is his speed.....the timing has to be just right, so as not to actually interrupt him in the middle but catch him before he turns round. We have a high success rate but sometimes, particularly in the dark, he is too quick. We had a couple of days when he wasn't able to eat any but then, given any chance, he still seems keen.
I keep weighing him and try to adjust his food accordingly, so I don't think he is underfed. I am anxious not to overfeed, as he's quite a chunky pup, and he also gets a fair number of treats in between meals for training / good behaviour. It's an excellent quality food.
We will certainly try to keep everything calm to stop him biting so much adn I MUST stop feeling guilty if I don't play with him when he looks at me with his sad, appealing eyes. You are so right - the huge desire to get everything right makes all the 'wrong' things seem insurmountable and out of proportion.
It's good to share problems...they don't seem so bad, so thanks again.
By rw3272
Date 20.01.09 17:06 UTC
Have you tried clicker training him? Some pups get so into it that as soon as they hear the click they are immediatly on the look out for a treat. This way you could click just as he is finnishing his business and if you are in luck he may immediatly turn to you to get his treat, giving you time to distract him further and clean up.

Has he accepted a lead yet? If so put it on him when he goes to toilet just taute enough that he can't turn round and reach the poo. Not a long term solution but might help just to break the habit.

Just a thought about the biting,
Khan was a real chomper when we got him and the only way him and I could have a lovely fuss session was if I had a soft doggy toy to shove in his mouth while we fussed. He just wouldn't leave me alone otherwise, sometimes I wonder whether it was to do with the scent of female hormones as I am the only female in the house (always seemed worse at 'that' time too). My OH and boys are obviously full of testosterone and never suffered as much! He is now a lot gentler and I think that they do grow out of it gradually.
We also had to rethink our clothing for a while as jumpers, baggy sleeves, baggy trousers, cardigans, scarves and anything dangly would be attacked. Standing with arms folded and turning my back on him with a firm NO also helped address this too as Khan would not be allowed any positive atttention until he was sitting down and calm.
Now it's a case of 'I was just yawning and your hand happened to be in the way'!! And for some unknown reason Khan still likes to nibble my eldests socked feet!!
As for the poo thing - Khan still does it when he can, Usually 1 from his last night garden visit as no matter how hard we search with torch we can never find it until daylight the next morning (Khan gets there first!!) Roll on spring!! We just make a point of not going near him for while!!
Hope this helps as I remember feeling completely worn out at not being able to just 'enjoy' Khan during the first few months and that it does get better.
A bit like babies to toddlers to teenagers! Just when you think you've cracked it something else comes along to challenge you!
By trishm
Date 27.01.09 13:41 UTC
What a kind post! Khan sounds identical to our little whirlwind.
It is funny that he prefers to bite me instead of my husband but I think we are (very) slowly getting an improvement. As you say, standing up and ignoring him works best, though he still loves to bite my ankle! I wear the same clothes day in and day out as they are the ones which work best to stop him getting his teeth hooked in! We do manage to have some lovely softy sessions, when I can now tell he is receptive, as he loves to have his tummy and the side of his face rubbed, so I forgive him then for all the previous attacks. He is so angelic at those times that it is hard (thankfully) to remember that he can turn into 'demon dog'!
We continue to struggle with the poo problem. I have tried pineapple in his food but it doesn't seem to have any effect. we never leave poo out but he is still quite determined to turn round, even when you think you have got him well away from the 'danger' area, and run back and snaffle it. I now have some bitter apple spray from teh vet and have sprayed some on his poo before he turns back but he still ate it! I'm hoping that training him the 'leave' command may ultimately be my best weapon.
And now he has taken to picking up and chewing stones.........as you say, another challenge.
Puppy socialisation adn training starts next week, so at least I will have some other puppy owners and a really nice trainer to chat to.
Thanks again for your input.
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