Hi , Could you tell me what condition you would expect a puppy to be in when you picked it up to take it home from a breeder.Do most breeders wash the pup on the day it's to go to it's new home if it has been housed in kennels ?
The reason I ask is recently I went to pick up my new pup and was shown through to the kennel yard , the pup and another dog was let out into the yard which hadn't been cleaned of fecease so not only was the pup covered in it so were we by the time the excited pup had run through the yard then jumped up at us.The breeder knew we had a 5 hr car journey home and the smell was unbelievable.Poor pup got the cuddles he needed on the way home but he had to go straight in the bath after a 5 hr journey as there was no way he could sleep in the house in that mess.Not a great start for the little mite.

Is this normal when picking up from a reputable , KC registered breeder ?

No I would not say it was normal for a reputable breeder.  I am not sure what you mean by registered breeder.  Dogs are registered with the KC.  Breeders may be licenced with their local council but they are never registered with the KC.  A licenced breeder may or may not be reputable.
Was this breeder an Accredited Breeder with the KC or a Breed Club member?  How did you find them?

Oh sorry don't know the technical words.I was sent a list of breeders from the kennel club and this breeder was  accredited and a breed club member .

No it most definitely is not the usual, most breeders want their puppies to leave for their new homes in the best condition possible, poor puppy :-(  am so glad to hear the puppy was cuddled on the journey home despite the pong, sounds as if the puppy is a lucky one to have lovely caring owners when perhaps it didnt start out as lucky, I wish you many a happy year with your new baby :-)

IME this is not normal or acceptable.   I would have expected your puppy to be bathed, fed 1 hour before you collected and to be kept in clean, hygienic conditions.  It is very thoughtless of the breeder to not bathe your pup, and even more so with the very long car journey for you all.  If these are the conditons you saw then i don't like to think of the things you didn't see!

I would also expect the breeder to ask you to contact them with any concerns or problems.  If this breeder is genuine they would ask you to keep in contact throughout the life of your dog.  Personally, you never forget any of the pups that are born in your home and feel very pleased when the new owner sends updates on their progress and photo's etc..

Did you get the KC papers, diet sheet, food and helpful advice? I hope so.

In the light of this topic, thought I would share a story with you, of a GSD puppy I sold many years ago, like all my puppies it had a bath the morning it was leaving, brushed all its belonging put together including food and all paper work etc,along with all its tattoo papers. Chap came for the puppy all was well, it was going to a big house with lots of land, and an older shepherd.  As normal I rang the chap the following day just to make sure everthing was going well and perhaps help if there were any hichoughs.  The phone was answered by the Chaps wife, when I asked how the puppy was, she said oh you mean the little dog my husband found, well she said it was a bit dirty but we have given it a bath and she is a sweet little thing (at this point I am telling my husband via sign language to get his coat on and get my puppy back) if we dont hear anything from the police, rspca or local vets I think we will keep her.  Then the husband walks in and I hear him say is that about the dog, then he takes the phone, I ask him what the xxxxx is going on, he makes noises for a minute or two while I am telling him my husband is coming to get the dog, when he says its ok the wife has gone out of the room, he then goes on to explain that the wife didn't want another GSD but a yorkie, so he said he had found it by the side of the road, he rubbed a bit of dirt on her, and as he knew she would, the wife fell in love with her and forgot all about the yorkie, but its tattooed I said, she hasn't noticed that yet, says he, by the time she does it will be too late she wont let it go.  I rang a few days later and again spoke to the wife, who now knew the whole story, and was fine, she told me she had named the puppy after her mother in law.  So alls well that ends well, but to say I was stressed through the whole converstion is an understatment.

Omg minimom you must have felt like exploding on the phone! what a fibber of a husband that lady has lol, glad it all worked out for the best though :-)

If this breeder was accredited, they will have given you a feedback form to send to the KC detailing your experiences with the breeder. If you fill it in honestly - ie, detailing the condition in which you were handed your pup, I am quite sure said breeder will very soon have a visit from Mr Bill Lambert, the Breeder Adviser!

the exact reason i have to meet all the family before even considering them for a pup!!!!
re the OP...I have never ever considered bathing a pup before it left!!!

I have just checked my papers that we left with and there is no feedback form with them.I have just changed ownership in the KC into my name so maybe they will send me a form then ? Unfortunately as I didn't get my pup till 12 weeks ( because of christmas and being away ) he had been given his first vaccination but the breeder said she forgot to take him for his second one when it was due and by the time I got my pup to the vet ( next day after picking him up ) he was overdue and had to start his course of vaccinations again :-( .I'm not bothered about cost just him having to have an additional needle in him.Unfortunately she also couldn't find his pedigree papers and said I could ask the KC for a copy , yes I can but !! I have to say in her defense there is extenuating ( sp ? ) circumstances for this lady which I shall not go into here where she may not be up to scratch but she did have a husband and a guy doing the kennels so I think a bit more effort could have been made.Oh well he's happy with us now :-)

I have just changed ownership in the KC into my name    Unfortunately she also couldn't find his pedigree papers and said I could ask the KC for a copy
How did you register the pup in your name without his paperwork? I thought it was a requirement for accredited breeders to provide all the paperwork if this hasn't happened and the lady is accredited you should report the matter to the KC and let them decide whether the breeders circumstances are exstenuating.
Angela

> How did you register the pup in your name without his paperwork?

You can do it online with just the registration certificate.

I would send a message to the KC asap(via their website online form just scroll down the page & complete the form, there is on the drop down menu an ABS topic. the message will be sent to the ABS department & you usually will get a reply the next day if done on a night & usually the same day if done during working hours

> I got my pup to the vet ( next day after picking him up ) he was overdue and had to start his course of vaccinations again

Oh dear your vet was a bit naughty your puppy did not need the full course the second dose is only given in case the maternal antibodies nullify the 1st dose. He only needed one dose

> I have never ever considered bathing a pup before it left!!!

I will not shampoo a pup just prior to it leaving my care.  I think it helps for the pup to smell of mum and siblings.  However, I tell all new owners this when they come to choose their pup.  By the time pups are 5 weeks or so, I wash them all, and I can't say that they are filthy by the time they leave me.

I do not bathe a pup on the day of leaving either. A lot happens for the pup on that day, he/she leaves her mum and litter mates and my family and goes on a journey in a car. So I try to make the day as normal as possible for the pups before they leave my home. Also, if they are going on a long journey I do not feed them either for fear of them being sick in the car. I obviously send a puppy pack with food for the new owner so one of the first bonding sessions the new owners gets with the pup is to feed the pup themselves.

xx

Please do as advised and contact the KC - if they claim to be a KCAB and don't provide a good service the KC should be infomed.  This is the only way they can get feedback on puppies being sold and need to know whats going on out there.  I believe they actually have to give you the puppy packs with the feedback forms - so another failing there.  Tell them about vaccinations etc. too
Were you not wary though when you went to see the litter about the state of the kennels etc?  I think too many people get carried away with the thought of having 'this' puppy and fail to be truly objective about the puppies/the parents and the breeder.  One reason I now say to potential puppy owners, go home and seriously think about having this puppy, make sure you are 100% committed etc  Also that you are happy with the way in which the puppies are being raised, their mother and other relatives if available to see and probably most importantly - me - do you feel I can give you support, not only in the first few days, but for whenever you may need it.  Then get back to me - this also gives me more time to consider them as suitable new puppy owners. 

Gosh Minimom, what a story! She got the last laugh though, naming it after her mother in law LOL!!!

I can't understand why the puppy was covered in faeces anyway? Didn't they get cleaned out poor things?
When ours left I certainly didn't bath them as they weren't dirty. They were out through the day in a big shed with a run but we never saw any with faeces on, that is just really disgusting management (or lack of!). And she *forgot* to take the pup for its second jab...yeah, right. She means she didn't want to pay for its second jab. Nor probably a copy of its pedigree.

Lucky puppy to have found you though!

Otis - please report this person to the KC asap, if they are a KCAB they have broken Rules they should abide by. You must feed this back to the KC. I hope your puppy is doing well.

You must report these people or they will get away with it and being happy that your pup 'is now out of that situation' only makes a space for them to breed more.

My pups are brought up in my house, smell of Persil (from their fuzzy bed) , my perfume and puppy breath and that is how a puppy should smell .......when bought from someone who picks them up and kisses them very often.

By buying from anyone other than a caring, loving breeder, one is buying a 'product' created by livestock rearers just like buying a lamb or a turkey.

> I have to say in her defense there is extenuating ( sp ? ) circumstances for this lady which I shall not go into here

Whatever the circumstances you should report this the Kennel Club.  They have a system of Breeder Advisors so depending on the nature of these circumstances it will not necessarily mean she will be "struck off" but could be assisted to ensure future breeding is conducted in a more responsible manner.  The Accredited Breeder Scheme is for the benefit of the public who buy puppies but it depends on those buyers to make the scheme work.  Your role in this is feed back and it is essential.

Well I bath all my pups before they go to their new homes and always have done!

I've never raised pups in a kennel situation so they've never been dirty enough to need a bath. Their feet get a bit mucky first thing in the morning when they rush through the mess on the floor to greet me, but feet can easily be wiped (and get clean on the grass when they get taken out into the garden anyway). Other than they have enough space that they needn't stand in any mess before I get a chance to clean it up. I've never had a puppy dirty enough to need a bath before it leaves for its new home.

Thanks for all your advice. I will contact the KC and ask for a form to fill in.This breeder is shutting down as a breeder now I think so at least no other puppies will be sold in this way.The pup got covered in poo as it was let in a yard that had poo on the floor to play with another dog so both dogs walked through the poo then jumped over each other and us , so we all ended up with poo covering us.However the pup did have dried poo on it too so I think this wasn't the first time it had got dirty.
I wouldn't have expected the pup to have been bathed had he come from clean conditions and neither would I have bathed him on getting him home usually , but these were extreme circumstances.
I didn't see the pup before I went to get him , not something I would or have ever done before , but circumstances were as such that I couldn't get down to see him so I took the fact that the breeder was a very well known breeder of her breed as an indication that he would have been kept in clean conditions at the least.I would never trust this to be the case again.If his breed were easy to find or had I not driven 5 hrs to pick him up , I wouldn't have taken him but at the end of the day he's a great pup , healthy in himself and has a lovely character so once he was washed off I knew I'd have a lovely pup which he has turned out to be.
Thanks for all your suggestions , like I said I will speak to the KC.

Same here. I do give them a good brush through and make sure there are no dirty marks or bits in their coat, like breakfast etc!!!! And they get a spritz of something sweet smelling or some baby talc lightly prinkled to freshen them up a bit.
On another note, a lady who has had 2 pups from me had to give her friend who had just bought a GSD pup the welcome pack i sent with her pups cos this lady hadn't even been given a diet sheet for her new baby. I don#'t understand why people go to the trouble of having a litter and then not even pass on info to new owners to make sure they continue raising the pup correctly. 
mel.

Might i add, the lady had 2 pups from 2 different litters 2 years apart from me! Not 2 pups together!!!
mel.

Thanks Perrodeague, I was beginning to feel a bit picked on, personally I dont think it helps the puppy to be reminded of mom and siblings left behind, only makes them more distressed in my opinion.  Better a clean break I think.  My GSD pups always seem to get riffy and are sponged down most days,  but then they have a wonderfull couple of weeks before going to new homes, with all the garden to explore, birds to chase, children to play with etc, they would stay much cleaner if kept only in the house or run,  But thats not my way.

> they would stay much cleaner if kept only in the house or run

I think it is the other way round and feel my puppies stay cleaner for me having the time to let them spend lots of playing time in the garden on grass rather than in a restricted pen.  
I don't think it matters much if a breeder likes to bath them or not but would expect them to do what is necessary and not let them go in a state or have old faeces lying around either in the run or, certainly not, on the puppy.
It sounds as though this breeder has acknowledged things have got too much for her for whatever reason but I would still report it as the Breeder Advisor may be able to offer help and support with her dogs anyway and it is just possible she spinning a yarn about giving up.

Same her minimom - bottoms and feet just about daily, bathed when needed (when they are tiny and go sliding through a pee puddle another little one did)

Edited to say even though I clean up instantly I'm not supermum and do miss the odd puddle :-)

> Edited to say even though I clean up instantly I'm not supermum and do miss the odd puddle

A bit different from being encrusted with faeces and smelling disgusting which the OP experienced.
My boxer pups would be in an outdoor run at 8 weeks, up until the new owner collected, and may have trod in an accident but no good breeder would let an encrusted, filthy puppy go. I'm afraid it would be a sign of other neglect to me, right back to the creation of the pup and it's future health.  Care is care after all.

Ditto, have never bathed pups before they leave.

If weather is bad and their feet have been wet or smelly then baby wipes or a sponge with baby water with bath liquid will do the trick.

I only ever had one person request pup be bathed, and they were taking her in cabin on a plane, and I have to say I felt slightly insulted.

My pups usually don't get their first bath until they moult out their puppy coats (coming up to the first year), unless they have somehow got filthy.

> can't understand why the puppy was covered in faeces anyway? Didn't they get cleaned out poor things?
>

i the litter i helped with had a tendancy to leap into a poo just as you were about to clean it up but it was no bother to give the pup a wipe down rather than a full bath. the only time one of them was bathed, and then only partly, was when he decided to swim in the puppy porridge then roll in a poop (amazing how much chaos a pup can cause in the time it takes to open the puppy pen!). i gave him a wash but was so scared of him getting cold after that i carried him about in a towel for ages

My pup had just had a bath when i went to pick him up and i watched as she blasted his coat dry. I thought in a way this was a good thing for him to get used to this scenario at a young age, never had any problems with a blowdryer or blaster since..

I would also say Otis report this so called breeder as this has breached the standards of the KCABS.

I always give my toy poodle pups a face, feet and tail trim and a bath before they leave.  This helps to get them used to the grooming which lies ahead of them for the rest of their lives.I wouldn't dream of letting them go any other way. Did Otis get the purple puppy sales wallet from the breeder with all the KCABS info in it ?             

Perhaps the bathing thing is breed dependant?  My American Cocker pups all get a first clip and trim at 4 weeks, first bath and blow dry at 5 weeks, and further "hairdos" at least twice before going, ending up with the full works day before they go.  This is mainly to get the pup used to the frequent trims it will need, but also so that it goes to its new home looking smart and squeaky clean, with fluffed up coat.  With Yankee pups at 8 weeks they are still at the stage where playing in the dinner is as much fun as eating it, so can get quite messy.  With my pug pups, I start them out with a gentle brush and wipe over  (including nose roll) at about 6 weeks, and from then they may get a baby wipe over if they have been covered in dinner (or anything less desirable!)  but have never felt the need to bath one, and they all look shiney and clean when they depart.

I think the breed dependent idea is valid. For breeds that are frequently bathed and clipped/groomed (other than given a thorough brushing and/or combing) then it's important that the breeder starts of the practice so that it's not a total shock in a new environment. However this doesn't mean they should be allowed to be dirty before it's done! For breeds that need less extreme coat care it shouldn't be necessary.