Over the years the I have seen my puppy buyers change their requirements of me rather than the puppies.  For instance this litter has had three plus visits from from some of their families (they are just 6 weeks now).  Each time the people picking up their puppy, sometimes a cuddle of the others to and spending between 1 and 2 hours with them.  This started at 4 weeks.  In the past people have arrived at 4 or five weeks chosen their baby and not been back, except for a few, until it is time to take the puppy home.  The litter before this had multiple visits to but not as many.  It is nice to see the little ones enjoying playing and snuggling with their new mums and dads and I am sure it helps greatly with their socialisation.

As well as health testing parents, having good facilities - I am always asked if the puppies are raised in the home - Has anything changed for you over the years as regards your puppy people?

I personally state at the first contact with them the visits they are allowed and what they can and can't do.  I find new owners would be there all day every day if they could.  I allow one visit at 4 weeks, they are not allowed to touch the pups.  They see the parents, pedigrees, health certs and my own terms of sale.  Plus they get a grilling as to why they want a puppy.  Then I allow a visit at 6 weeks, they have to come in clean clothes, take off their shoes and are allowed to sit on the floor with all the puppies for about half an hour, no picking them up.  They are not allowed to choose which they want either.  Plus answer any questions they have, get an idea of the sex, colour they want, if they still want a pup for this litter now you can see what they will look like a bit more.
Then they pick up at 8 weeks, they get pick in order they enquired.  When they pick up I put into a pen the ones they can choose from, dogs and bitches seperated.  The ones I am keeping kept out of the way.  Then pups is put in a seperate pen or carrier if they have brought one to settle down while all the paperwork is sorted and puppy pack given and thats it.

I think you have to be so strict with people otherwise they expect the world.  This method has worked for me but I have found people often ask to visit more often but when I say no they are not disappointed because they knew I wouldnt anyway.

Emma

Omg malibu, I'm really suprised you only allow 2 visits!

I've been to visit my pup for at least 2 hours every week since 1 week old, personally if I was a breeder I would be much more likely to let someone have a pup if they wanted to see the pups more often, it would help me get to know the person and also would make me think they were much more keen to get a pup from me. JMO :)

I did try to allow the visits more often but it all got a bit much.  However saying that most people who buy pups from me have been on a waiting list for a while and have visited my house to see my dogs and seen the potential parents at shows.  I do send regular email updates with pics etc.  But have found also people tend to travel further for a pup so my 2 visits before pick up isn't always even possible for some.  Of course everyone has their own ways to do things, what works for one is a nightmare for others :)

Emma

Insist that they come at 4 weeks for the talk and to see the pups etc.  As SWD's are up and about and retrieving etc at this age it's a good age for them.  Most families live at least 5 hours away so they only come that once before collecting them at 7 weeks.

Mum does a buffet and everything for the people coming so it's a nice cosy get together.

Well I guess I am really lucky as nearly all of my puppies from every litter has been fairly local so people are prepared to visit more often.  They also come before the babies are born to meet mum and aunts and siblings etc and to get lessons on grooming etc.  It is nice to see the bond building up and its also quite exhausting for me but in the long run totally worth it.

One little boy who is going to a show home locally will be with me quite often as we go to champ shows where his owners will be more for the open shows and I have built up a great rapport with the new family. 

Just now I am wondering what life is like without newspaper on the floor, puppy porridge up my sleeves and puppy drool on my chin and neck - don't you just adore them!

For my second litter which in the last week have all left for their new homes,the new families came every week from week 4 until they picked them up.Each time taking photographs of their new family member and playing with them.Also they usually had questions written down that they had thought of in the week to ask me regarding puppies upbringing. With my first litter only one owner actually came every week,the rest came once to choose and then to pick the puppies up. They were all sent pictures and updates via email once a week whichI did again for the second litter.
The new owners of the second litter were also more cautious when first viewing the puppies,asking more questions regarding what  health tests  had been carried out by me on my bitch and the stud dogI had used.They were very pleased that both dogs had had the relevent tests & were clear.One couple had actually been looking for over 3 months and had visited a number of places of which some  would make any dog lover cry.

because all my pups go so far away from home.....only 2 ever been sold in westcountry, most go uk wide or overseas, so the problem of over visiting has never arisen although i do have one family treck from scotland 4 times so far, and I dont mind atall.

Few of my pups have gone to homes anything like local but IMO the more visits and visitors the merrier as it all works towards better socialisation :)  From 3 weeks onwards I also had several friends, family members and neighbours come to see the pups regularly with their kids of varying ages as my 'baby' was 21 when they were born so no resident youngsters to help get the pups used to children.

It's harder work of course having more visitors but definitely worth it in my breed - a guarding/herding one characteristically aloof with strangers.

Each to their own of course :)
Teri

I am very similar to Malibu, I encourage people to visit the dam before she has whelped, see health certs other members of the doggy clan, have a chat incorporated into a vetting, it is surprising what you can pick up by just generally chatting face to face, they are invited firstly after I have spoken at length to them on the phone. We have a weekly update when the pups are born with pictures etc on our website and I ring the owners as soon as pups are born. We invite prospective owners to visit at 4 weeks and allow at least an hour and a half for this visit. They are not allowed to touch the pups. If they ask and time allows I will let them visit again at 6 weeks but I don't offer this visit. New owners seem to forget that if you have 11 pups you have 11 prospective owners visit x 1.5 hrs over a weekend and with other dogs, children etc plus feeding, cleaning pups it doesn't leave you with a great deal of time.
They are allowed to choose at 8 weeks but I will advise them of pups suitability for their circumstances but the choice is finally theirs. We get all the paperwork done, any further questions answered before I hand the pup over.
Year ago we used to have visits from 2 weeks every week and I found that it was exhausting not only for me but mostly for the pups and mum. We have friends visit and they are allowed to cuddle from 4 weeks. This works for us now but I suppose each to their own. I certainly couldn't go back to weekly visits.

Ditto Sam

My OH & I saw Whistler at 5 weeks to pick him, or him me. 2nd the following w/end to let my son & his gf see him, third time was 8 week pick up day just two of us again.

Jake, my OH was interviewed before Andy would take our money prior to his litter being born, second visit at about 5 weeks to pick him, third visit to collect him , I think we may have visited again but we live in Hampshire and Jake was born in Worcester so quite a trek. Whistler was born about 12 miles away.

I would not wish to impose my visits on the breeders as they have family and I could ony visit at W/ends apart from OH's interview in his suit during a business visit  on a weekday, where he walked across a field with about 20 Border Collies, though I suspect it was deliberate by Andy,  my OH was full of it for weeks and weeks. We were also lucky that Andy had produced a video about borders so we had that to and could see his Dam & Sire on that. He has a waiting list on litters anyway, and we all collected the same day 5 pairs of new "parents" from Wales, Hampshire, Cornwall & Local.

"We invite prospective owners to visit at 4 weeks and allow at least an hour and a half for this visit. They are not allowed to touch the pups." 
"We have friends visit and they are allowed to cuddle from 4 weeks."

Floradora - just wondering why do you allow friends to handle pups but not future owners?

We visited both out dogs from very early on and it was wonderful. We have photos of them from an early age, and we got to know the breeders well, and mix with the relatives of our dogs.

I have to say that if a breeder was too strict with me, I would not buy from them. I don't mean that in a flippant way, and I researched both the breeds we went with, and went into health  tests and so on, but if a breeder was too inflexible it would really put me off.

Maybe that's because I'm "just" a pet owner?

> Maybe that's because I'm "just" a pet owner?

It makes no difference pet or show, I don't sell show animals in the UK purely because I've always kept tails on a traditionally docked breed ergo no show homes here.  I certainly couldn't cope with more than we do now, ie visit after the initial phone/email contact to meet the dogs here, gives us an idea of what sort of people they are and if they are suitable to own a schipperke - believe me there are many who couldn't cope. 

Next visit wouldn't be until the pups are 4 - 5 wks old with a final visit on collection day where we tend to lay on a buffet have all prospective owners there at the same time, paperwork already done for each owner, then match the dogs to the homes, have yet to have any 2 families choose the same puppy!

I am very strict about who's having my babies, and make sure that I'm happy about the families the pups are going to if they're not happy with my methods then they're not going to come back for after sales advice so best they leave before the pup does.

> I have to say that if a breeder was too strict with me, I would not buy from them. I don't mean that in a flippant way, and I researched both the breeds we went with, and went into health  tests and so on, but if a breeder was too inflexible it would really put me off.
>

I would have to agree.  I can't imagine not allowing pups to be picked up and played with etc.

Yes it is hard work having people tracking in an out over the weeks, but as far as I am concerned the more they visit the better.

From my last litter the male couple who had one of the girls came about 4 times before pick up and twice before the pups were born.

They are the ones who send me reams of photos on flikr and photobucket.

i agree barbara....maybe im luckier than most inthat i have a breed that is not advertised in the local paer or attracts hoards of petowners, and those that have pups from me have been carefully vetted before hand,,,,,,,but i certainly wouldnt stop them visiting or picking up or cuddling their babies...infact I postively encourage it and as a generally ant is social person who hates visitors :) i realise its in my pups interest to have folk visit and hence put uup with it and consider it part of the sacrifice I make for them :)

Perhaps you will understand my reasoning now if I explain about not letting owners hold the puppies, my friends are all doggy people and breeders also. I have had two incidences in the past one quite tragic, 1st incident, prospective owner picked pup up instead of placing it back on the floor it was pushed out of his arms from approx 4 ft onto the carpet, next incident pup wriggled furiously prospective owner dropped the pup on it's head, pup squealed, fitted had to take my baby to the vet who said this had caused brain damage, no reflex in the eyes at all so was blind, pup went into a permanent fit and tragically had to be pts, perhaps now you will be more understanding as to why some breeders do not let pups be held.
Also a friend lost a litter of 6 week old ess pups, family visited after being to a dog show, handled pups, got in pen, played with them etc, within 72 hrs all the pups had died.
As I said earlier I do not offer a 6 week visit but if the owners ask I will accomodate, I am not inflexiable, quite the opposite, owners visit prior to whelp, 4 weeks, maybe 6 weeks and pick up. I publish at least 20 pictures of the pups weekly on our website and send all owners a personal weekly update and ring lots of times during the 8 weeks. All barr 11 of our previous owners over the years keep in touch and we have owners that are on their 3rd golden from us.

> I have to say that if a breeder was too strict with me, I would not buy from them. I don't mean that in a flippant way,

I agree Julie.   IF I were ever to buy another puppy, if I was told you can't touch, I would tell them, well no sale then.     I actively encourage my potential puppy owners to come & see the pups and handle them, they have to be accustomed to strange people, noises, smells etc. Keep them too sanitised and I think you create trouble.    I have done the same with this litter of kittens I have at the moment.  They've been taken out in the car, have met lots of visitors etc. and are the most social creatures ever!   The dogs tails flap in their faces and they don't flinch, I have to lift them out of the way when I hoover etc.

those are really awful stories flora and i can understand why thats made you 'better safe', but would insisting that people sit on the floor to hold the pups not suffice?

Thanks for the explanation Floradora - just wondered. So sorry you've had bad experiences.

Don't get me wrong - I recognise that the breeder knows (or should know!) much more than me about the procedure than me, and so I am perfectly willing to be set reasonable guidelines. I just know it would have brought me up short if either of ours had said to us, "No, you can't come."

The other thing I think puppy buyers need to know is that you want the breeder to grill you somewhat about the life you will provide for their pup. After all, you want someone who is passionate about their dogs, so that they have bred them as carefully as you will look after them.

It's very interesting to get an insight into it from the breeder's point of view.

I too had a prospective owner play with his chosen puppy then encourage/push it off his lap as you would a cat. A cat would jump and land safely and come to no harm. A 5-week old puppy, however, plummets and lands with a thud. Fortunately the puppy was uninjured, but I refused to sell that person any puppy - he wasn't unkind, but I didn't think he was knowledgeable enough about dogs. So I'm glad I allowed him to pick up and play with the pup before taking it home, because it meant I wasn't guessing about how good an owner he might be. I knew. If he hadn't been playing with the pup like that I'd never have known.

I have to agree and say that I wouldn't buy a puppy from someone who wouldn't let me handle it.  With all my dogs I've expected to be able to visit the pups at a time convenient to both myself and the breeder and get down on the floor and play with the pups.  I want to be able to interact with the pups and see how they interact with me before I go about choosing a puppy.  It would never occur to me to wander around holding a puppy, or to sit on the sofa with one but I would be very suspicious of a breeder who refused to let me handle a puppy.

I like to see the pups twice before I bring my new dog home - usually 4 and 6 weeks - and the breeders that I've bought from in the past have never had any problems with that.

i would also like to choose my pup in advance, particulary if i were after a certain colour

Can certainly understand floradora after that terrible thing happened to her puppy :-(

When I have been to see pups I follow whatever the breeder allows me to do, I always say I will sit on the floor if thats ok with them and that way no wiggly puppy can fall from a lap, I love it if I am allowed to cuddle the pups but if thats not allowed then I like to sit for some time just observing how the pups play and interact with eachother, you can certainly get an idea of their personalities doing that, I think as its the breeders home and pups I cannot impose what I would like to do but will follow their house rules so to speak.

Same has happened to me Floradora.  Someone who knew about dogs, pups etc, who had a gundog breed picked one of our Pomeranian's up and dropped it, all seemed fine but same pup died 2 weeks later, with a swollen head etc.  Now whether this had anything to do with the fall we'll never know, but I do make all new owners to be sit down on the floor etc. they are never allowed to pick them up at a height.

You have had a terrible experience for sure.  I am with the others as regards sitting on the floor or safetly on a chair.  I always hover very close ready to advise owners/reassure puppies and never had one fall yet.  At Four weeks owners put their clean washed hands in the box to touch the puppies, good socialisation I have always felt.  From 6 weeks they hold the pups and the children are encouraged to do so as well (children sit on the floor),  It gives me a chance to advise them what to expect and how to handle puppies.  A startled child in an uncontrolled situation can easily drop a puppy to best to be on hand and show them how it's done rather than wait to get puppy home and drop it becuase it scratches them.  At this stage you get a real feel for how the whole family will be with the puppy and you also see who is going to fall at the first hurdle.

I like people to visit from 4 wks then as often as they wish I am just a phone call away , I want my babies to know thier new owners before they leave so they wont be as scared when they eventually go to thier new homes ,it is time consuming but I enjoy getting to know the new families its amazing what you can learn on each visit...I feel then that I have chosen well.

I ask them to change thier clothes if they have other pets, remove thier shoes and I give them hand gel before they can touch the puppies but I love them to cuddle all of the puppies as well as thier own as this is good socialisation and has for me made well socialised very friendly puppies and the families have been very happy all sitting down with me present of course.

R~

I wouldn't buy from a breeder who didnt let me handle the pups. You cant get a feel for their temperament... and in labs, good bone is important, and you cant really tell that if you dont touch them. You as a breeder can also see how they interact with the puppies, how careful they were with them and how they reacted to them nibbling their fingers XD

When we had the pups, we asked if they had other pets to change their clothes just before they came, and take of shoes and like starryeyes we had anti bacterial hand gel for them all.