Hey guys,

A bit of advice here....my bitch was caught (housemate left the gate open arrgh) anyways got her to the vets to get the "morning after jag" and obviously never thought much more about it.....till the last week or so

She has put on a little weight but only about 2kg's but in saying this she in no way looks pregnant but has a lot of "pregnant" behaviour (very clingy, huge appetite, swollen nipple area etc) and to be honest I was putting this down to a phantom but I have noticed in the last few day's her vulva has dropped right down and swollen.....is this normal in a phantom? Or is it possible 1 or 2 of the embryos survived the jag?

Oh i should add that she is on day 58 since mating.

Thanks,

Kelly

The 'morning after' jab is not 100% accurate. Sometimes there are puppies born afterwards :-( Usually only one or two, but anything is possible. I would have her down to the vet for a check up. Though even your vet might find nothing if it is a singleton hidden well up in the rib cage.

Phantom and real pregnancies are very similar in that the bitch will produce symptoms even if she isn't pregnant. Even after planned matings they can confuse the owners by looking and acting pregnant when in fact they have missed.

Hi Kelly,

I have experienced a few phantoms and i must say the only difference i have found between a real pregnancy and a very good phantom is the swollen vulva, that is the only symptom that has been missing when it was a phantom, i have never had a bitch with a swollen vulva not have puppies albeit maybe only one or two.

This is of course only my experince
Good luck

Mandy

Yup this is what I was thinking. Not that I have had a bitch who has had a phantom before but thought it strange for her vulva to swell and drop if just a phantom.

If she is pregnant she will be due a week today so I think it wise to get cracking and get her to the vets and start preparing for possible puppies lol

Thanks guys,

Kelly

Which product was used as a morning after jab?  If it was Delvesteron and not the more modern alizin, then a single or two pup pregnancy is not that unusual.

I know of a Doberman bitch that went on to have pups one was born with it's insides hanging out (so died) and the other was healthy.

It was delvesteron....

Oh man I don't think I could cope with a pup born with it's insides on the outside! Random question but if a still born was produced what am I required to do with the body...are there any regulations for disposal?

Thanks Brainless

Kelly

>are there any regulations for disposal?

No, just bury it in the garden.

Scrap that I called to double check she was given mezalin?? oestrogen based apparently

I didn't mean to frighten you, but the insides out thing seems to be a result of chemical influence.  Someone else I know had this happen to a  bitch who had been in sprayed crops when pregnant.

No no I know.....I'd rather be prepared for a frankepup to be honest lol rather than not know and almost pass out!

I guess it can't be that rare given that you are injection the dog with artificial hormones.

edited to add - got app at 4 at the vets to get her scanned, so will let you guys know. Just hope that we get a definitive answer as I know how shoddy ultrasound scans are if there are only a couple pups!

That has estradiol same as in delvesteron.

"In trial work, pregnancy was found to continue in up to 5% of bitches despite Mesalin treatment. It is suggested that owners are advised accordingly before the treatment is commenced."

Mesalin:
http://www.intervet.co.uk/Products_Public/Mesalin/090_Product_Datasheet.asp

Alizin: http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Virbac_Limited/documents/S4159.html

Well shall find out in the next few hours if im in the lucky 5% lol

Well just back from the vets...he took one look at her and said she isn't pregnant. I tried to explain why I thought she might be as it's not very normal for the vulva to swell and drop just as much as it has in a phantom. Unsurprisingly, the scan didnt show anything but yanno I'm still not convinced lol

Guess will just need to wait and see then :)

Did he touch her before he said she wasn't pregnant? If so I'd like to know how he knew ;-)

Fingers crossed that she isn't. An unplanned litter is a nightmare, especially at this time of year. (Been there, done that, but not quite at this time of year.:-) )

Haha no..he took one look at her and said "she isn't pregnant" but then afterwards palpated and said he could miss 1 or 2 pups but not a whole litter. They then scanned but couldnt tell if there were any up in her rib area but there was definetly nothing around her bladder as they showed me the printout.

It would be fine if only 1 or 2 but if she was to pop out 4 or more I'd pass out lol I was planning a litter next year so that will scupper those plans if she ends out having pups.

Well no signs of pups...so thinking probably just a very good phantom.

She is still acting pregnant though so when do you reckon these symptoms will start to wear off?

I should think symptoms will wear off within a couple of days of her due date. One of ours is like that and starts to eat properly/act normal again very soon after her pups would have been born if she'd been mated.
Bless her, hope she's feeling better soon.

hi there, i had a bitch that def did not get mated and  a few weeks later went to the vets for her booster, he said havent you noticed anything strange???? i said like what? he said like the fact she has milk and looks on the larger size than she normally is? to be honest i didnt notice cos i wasnt looking looking for signs of pregnancy, but when he pointed it out, she had the exact symptoms of a bitch pregnant. milk, larger nipples, swollen belly that got bigger by the day, went off food around her would be due date, then literally overnight the belly deflated!!!! i can honestly say it was the weirdest experiance ever. exactly the same as a pregnant bitch but without the pups at the end. my vet did palpate and said there was no pups but unless palpated you wouldnt be able to tell the difference. also my bitch even went on to dig around as it to nest!!  so u really wouldnt know till the end.

Phantom pregnancies are so bizarre, although have never witnessed one myself.

I do wonder though if some phantoms are not really phantoms as such but occur when the bitch has reabsorbed, thereby initial pregnancy signs being very real.

you have a point there, and yes they are very bizarre, you have to see it to believe it! i knew my girl wasnt pregnant as she had only been indoors with me or on the lead with me, her phantom occured on her first season at age 1!! vet said that in cases where it happens on first season it can become a common occurance, he said to either spay her to eliminate it or if i was gana mate her then to do it on her next season but he also said it can make actually concieving harder??!! he said she may miss first time and i would need to keep trying, and that i would prob keep getting phantoms on the skipped seasons!!

The 'old school' of breeder believed there is a difference between phantom pregnancies (where a bitch is mated, conceives but fails to maintain the pregnancy) and false pregnancies, where the bitch was never mated but goes through all the symptoms.

False pregnancies are normal for canines, who in a pack situation would help feed and rear the litter born to the alpha female. Some bitches will have only very mild symptoms; others will go the whole hog, nesting, producing copious quantities of milk and becoming very distressed. Most are somewhere in between. but all will have some hormonal disturbance after every season. If they're bad they won't improve, and this is no reason to have a litter of puppies. The bitch will have the same symptoms after her next season and you're still responsible for all those lives.

The only sure cure for serious false pregnancies is spaying.