Hi all, I was hoping you could give me some advice?
Through reading your posts and my own experience buying from a breeder, I suppose I expect certain things; update on the pup, parents history, dna/relevant health checks, registration, price etc.

I was in touch with an extremely well-known breeder some weeks ago when a litter had just arrived. I asked for photographs, price, history etc. and as yet have only received one pic of the entire litter at a week or so old and one of the father. I've just had a call to say the pup would be ready on Sunday but when I asked for recent pics was told 'Oh, you'll be happy with it'! The attitude from the start was 'We're so-and-so breeders so you will be grateful for what you get', As yet details of the mum, tests, price etc. haven't been given.

I am extremely uneasy with this situation. My present dog was from a breeder about 8 hours drive away. I was kept fully informed of his progress, weekly pics and videos were emailed, we chatted on the phone, I had a full pedigree of both parents etc.
Am I right in being uneasy with this breeder? Surely this isn't how people should home their pups? (The breeder has never asked about my situation or suitability either)

I don't intend to show or breed my dogs. I just love the breed so much and waited for two years until my I had researched breeders and the breed before I got my first one. I thought that by avoiding the 'small-ads' and BYB's I would get a dog from someone who genuinely has a love for the breed and not just business.

I think I've very sadly set my mind on refusing this pup and waiting until next year when my boy's breeder should be ready with a litter.
Thanks in advance for any input.

We are not all good with photos on computers and that sort of stuff and rearing a litter properly is jolly time consuming.  I'm afraid you would not get anything like that from me :-)  I think they could be more forthcoming regarding the information you have sought but if you are going to see the puppy before committing yourself you could ask for it then couldn't you?
I have just spotting the bit about not vetting you and that I would wonder at but again perhaps they prefer to do it in person.

I think photos etc can vary a lot. I do it myself, I set up a webpage that I update twice a week from the day the pups are born until they are ready to go, but not everyone finds they have the time to do so, so this in itself would not worry me too much. HOWEVER I would worry far more about not being asked any questions as to your suitability, and not being told vital info like health test results of parents and also price. I don't like it when price is the first thing people ask, but these pups are virtually ready to go so you do need to know! I'd be wary as well. The pups may be perfectly fine, but if you want a breeder to keep in touch with and to be there throughout the dog's life, then this one sounds a bit doubtful.

As for the vetting it could be that they are Happy with you having checked with your present boys breeder, as your 'already in the breed' so to speak.  Breeders do network.

Have you asked your boys breeder what they think.

Very good point Brainless-I don't ask a lot of a buyer has been referred to me by somebody else in the breed.

Not all breeders do the same thing, some are more old school and do much less than us more modern breeders who give everything but the kitchen sink with our pups. :-D

Do you also live a distance from this breeder? I'm wondering why you did not go and visit the bitch beforehand and look at all the relevant health certificates etc, perhaps this breeder feels that you know of her reputation and has no need to forward copies of the parents pedigrees, health checks etc, I do dislike it when your buying a pup and the breeder does not give the price, particularly when your actually collecting this Sunday, a breeder is not going to take a cheque on the actual collection day, (no time to clear) so you would need to take cash, how do you know how much to take? I've heard all the arguments for this, but still do not agree with it, especially at this late stage, how strange.

I also would not buy a pup from anyone who did not vet me either and would never sell one to someone I had not met previously, perhaps as Brainless has suggested this breeder has been talking to your boys breeder, if she hasn't that would cause alarm bells for me too, I would never just give a pup to someone who already had one of the breed, they would still get the same questions or there abouts and I would want to meet them.

Are you the type of person whom if they see a litter of pups will find it very hard to walk out without one? (most people find that hard :-)  )  If you think you can and this breeder has a good reputation, then personally I would go and view the pup, hopefully the breeder will then offer all certificates, pedigrees, KC registration transfer form, insurance etc, if she doesn't walk away and wait for your boys breeder, and be glad you were sceptical.

If she does, then it's just the way she breeds and you will have a nice pup. :-) You can't loose either way, I would go and see the pup.

It does sound a little odd - we didn't actually get photos with 2 of ours, but we did visit at 5 weeks, and were given lots of updates when we phoned, which I managed to keep to every 2 weeks! With our third one we got photos and videos as they were too far away to visit, and it was agreed that we would all have to be happy with each other on meeting before we could take the puppy. I know people might be busier rearing pups than taking photos, but if directly requested you would think they would either produce a photo or at least explain why they didn't have time. If you think you can be strong if it still feels funny to you, why not go and see them anyway though?

Hi Biggywee,

I always think people should just be honest, call the breeder, let them explain or tell them you are just going to wait..

I never have time to scratch my nose with puppies never mind weekly updates and videos personally.   You will get the odd photo and the odd e-mail but my precious time is spent with my pups and other dogs. 

I have said it before on here don't fall for the trap that the super friendly constant communicator is the best breeder.

Most pups I have bought from good successful show breeders prior to picking up the puppy I haven't even seen a photo by the time I go to see it.  I have already previously satisfied my faith and trust in them not to need pacified with too much of their time.  At the end of the day if the puppy when you go to see it is anything less that you expected you don't have to buy it..  I've very sadly set my mind on refusing this pup   If it is a good breeder I can't see them forcing a puppy on you so I can't see you having to refuse a puppy perhaps decline to buy it :-)

I don't intend to show or breed my dogs. I just love the breed so much and waited for two years until my I had researched breeders and the breed before I got my first one. I thought that by avoiding the 'small-ads' and BYB's I would get a dog from someone who genuinely has a love for the breed and not just business

This could be argued in this breeders favour ( although I don't know)  a good breeder not having to use "seller" tactics to me is because they don't have to.  The breeder may just genuinely be neck deep keeping a successful kennel going.

Best way to find out is to speak to them and visit them :-)

hi Biggywee IMO it is totally your perogative to not buy the puppy from this breeder if you are not at all happy with the response, or lack of response from them.  Personally, I would call them and have a heart to heart chat and then decide afterwards.  Also to be honest if they are such a well known reputable breeder they will have plenty of people waiting for one of their pups.  Is there anyway you can visit them or are you too far away? 

From my point of view when you have a litter of pups it is so totally time consuming (but wonderful) that you are left feeling so drained & tired everyday and to be completely honest sometimes it is difficult to find the time to supply tons of info and emails and telephone calls when you have lots of little furry babies demanding 4 feeds a day, countless poops, lots of noise, loads of cleaning up and milliions of cuddles!  Oh and not forgetting the mum and plus other dogs in the family.

The doubt i have is that they haven't asked you loads of questions and that definetly concerns me.  Ring them today and the sooner you make that decision the better you will feel.

Hope it all works out for you. x

Speaking for myself, I always have time to take photo's and send a weekly update, I like my clients to see the pups growing and be on the journey with me, even when they visit too. From the moment I get up to the moment I go to bed I am constantly cleaning and food making, but who doesn't have 15-30 mins to spare at least once a week to take a photo and a little update.  I write one e-mail with a little update and use the same e-mail over and over with just a few adjustments and a replacement photo if a particular pup is already chosen and matched to client, it takes minutes and brings so much joy to the clients.

It's all part of the service of a breeder IMO to keep your clients in the picture and feeling safe and secure about their pup.

Some don't do it due to not being computer or even camera literate :-D But not having the time, there is always time, and my pups, and home are spotless.

> But not having the time, there is always time, and my pups, and home are spotless.

Good for you :-)   I take photos for my own album and do put some in the owners file to take home when they collect but I really don't see this as a priority so to be honest, I have never bothered to make the time for it.

hi there, we are in a similar position, we saw the pups of the litter we are getting our pup from when they were 3 weeks old,picked the one we thought best(although the choice was narrowed down cos of markings etc,so we only had the choice of 2 bitches in the end),and have spoken weekly since but only had the one pic 3 weeks ago.we are due to collect our pup this weekend age 7 weeks and have already made our minds that as we want a puppy to show(having specifically sought out this litter cos of the sire and dam),if we get there and shes not what we want we would rather turn her down than bring her home and she has a major fault.so at least by seeing them we wil make as much of an educated guess as to her suitability as a potential show dog.our experience is a lot of breeders are quite abrubt about things,i think as long as the pups are clean, well fed and looked after etc and parents health tested where applicable,if its that line or breeding you want then at least go and look.you may be pleasantly surprised!

I would be worried as to why they haven't given you any of the health tests on the parents, this is quick and easy to do!  I send photo's to my new owners to be, though not all the time as I do work full time (pups are brought up at my parents house :) )

If you are uneasy then there's always a reason for it and I'd go by my gut feeling.

Thanks for all the comments - good to hear the breeders side of things. It's hard work taking care of one dog - can't imagine litters of them!

I called the breeder and had a good talk about everything I was worried about - think some of your comments were spot-on, in that they are 'old-time' and not really into computers and the internet.

When I brought my first pedigree pup contacted the kennel club then the breed secretary for the south west breed club then phoned the man who breed the pup. Had a chat then set a date to collect, went up brought pup all done  and dusted. I think photos are cute but it's not as if you don't know what the breed look like ?

I put all my faith in the breeder and was not disappointed. Considering I had never owned this breed or proper pedigree before only a rescue dog before was not really vetted IMO? Maybe breeder's can just suss out an potential owner?

Maybe if I wanted to buy another the same type I would want more in-put and do more research and be more into my new addition to the family like yourself !

Best to go and visit see how you feel then sure all will be great.

I met all my owners to be at least twice before they picked puppy up, time consuming, exhausting...yes, but i would want to be certain where my pups were going and I would pull the plug, as I did once, on a second visit.

If in doubt... do not have one, follow your instinct, you already know you should.Your right to be concerned.

 

Just interested biggywee, what was the reason for not vetting you?

I  hope that it wasn't due to the fact you already have the breed, my next comments are absolutely nothing to do with yourself just as examples :-) as one breeders choice of ownership may well not be anothers especially if the original was from a BYB or puppyfarm or even another show/working breeder who may not be that particular or have a criteria for their pups long term suitability and let anyone have a pup, or someone wanting a dog or bitch to go with an un-neutered dog/bitch for poss future breeding purposes.

I just find it strange that she has never met you or asked you any questions, the fact that you searched out the breeder, doesn't mean that the breeder should let their guard down, I just find it very strange.

Let's hope that it is due to the comments Brainless added.

Anyhow, glad that you have spoken to the breeder and good luck with your new pup on Sunday. :-)

I like my clients to see the pups growing and be on the journey with me,   Perhaps many of us look at it differently.  I certainly have never ever thought of a puppy buyer as a client.  I know it is just a use of words but I just don't get or do what I would call the sales patter.

Some don't do it due to not being computer or even camera literate  But not having the time, there is always time, and my pups, and home are spotless

I suppose it depends on how much time you have. I personally have little spare time. ( That includes little time on here :-D you can check :-D ) 

I was up last night till 2.30am getting 2 dogs ready for this weeks show but was up at 7.00 to start the day.

I rarely have puppies or puppies to sell so just do really get the " service of a breeder"  I honestly don't.  Nobody ever gets a pick as my breed has so few pups and the best stay and are run on. 

Don't get me wrong I'll send an odd photo, pedigrees, a couple line e-mail update but I do not like the sales package at all..  and in MY experience ( I stress my experience)the best breeders I have encountered are those who are the ones running around like headless chickens.  Most are not just looking after a litter of pups, or keeping a house spotless they are also running/training/grooming their current show team and walking spending time with their retired ones.

>>>.think some of your comments were spot-on, in that they are 'old-time' and not really into computers and the internet.

Biggywee, thats codswallop! They can use a phone, can't they??? They can ask you to visit to ensure their pups are going to the right people, can't they?? If they are too busy for that,, they shouldnt be having the litter in the first place. I would never let someone come I have never met before and take one of my pups.

Your first instinct IS the right one.

I certainly have never ever thought of a puppy buyer as a client.  I know it is just a use of words but I just don't get or do what I would call the sales patter.


To a certain extent I can agree with that. :-) client = business

However, I am a business woman and so client is a natural wording for me, it's polite and much easier than continually writing potential puppy owner. My puppy buyers get the same respect from me as any other work I do, and as well as raising a litter, it is a natural thing for me to also think of them and their needs too, (my business head is always on. :-D ) I know they want photo's and updates and they are so, so happy to get them, most reply within the hour and it stops them from phoning which I don't have time for, but of course they become friend, rather than a colleague or client. :-)

But, you can see just from this post alone and many others in the past going both ways sometimes breeders also become worried at little contact from their puppies potential owners, how not giving that little extra in time to some can cause them to be worried or upset.

However, I am a business woman and so client is a natural wording for me

I am also and that is why it is not natural . :-)   It is maybe a personal thing to me but I just can't look at any puppy I have raised as a business transaction.

and it stops them from phoning which I don't have time for,

Im the opposite, I use my mobile for everything in life. You would never get a hold of me on my home or business landline. I am quite happy to talk on the phone even for 5 mins I can talk and work, clean , trim , wall ALL  at the same time as talking with a ear peice in my ear :-D :-D

I know we are all on the same wave length so no point in debating what " we" all do on here as most of us are ethical folks :-)  BUT I just wanted to make the point that it is not always the case " judge a book by the cover" :-D

My best buys have been people who never had a minute to spare.

I know we are all on the same wave length so no point in debating what " we" all do on here as most of us are ethical folks   BUT I just wanted to make the point that it is not always the case " judge a book by the cover" 



In total agreement, quite correct, but Blue, I'm shocked!   I am quite happy to talk on the phone even for 5 mins How do you manage a 5 min phone call, it is the law that women should have no less than a 15 minute chat. Only men can get away with 5 mins. :-D :-D

it is the law that women should have no less than a 15 minute chat. Only men can get away with 5 mins.  


LOL  BUT you know our 5 mins actually is 30 mins :-D   you know the " I'll be ready in 10 mins"  45 mins later :-) :-D

Just to update... It's now Saturday night, the photogrphs we were promised have not shown up and we are going on our gut instinct and not going to see the pup...the 6 hour drive up north at this time of year just isn't worth it.
THANK YOU to everyone for their opinions on this, as I posted before, it's helpful to hear the breeders side of the story.

the photogrphs we were promised have not shown up

You have to go with your guts and promises if broken should be explained so I would be the same.

Good luck in your search..  keep in touch with the club who should keep you in the right direction..

the 6 hour drive up north at this time of year just isn't worth it.

I totally agree, to take a journey with so much uncertainty real or not would not be a happy time travelling. I know that most of us have had clients a long distance away from us some even in other countries, it goes without saying IMO that they especially need a photo and update of some kind, phone, e-mail or even a letter, otherwise there is little connection, and doubts creep in.  What a shame that they could not see things from your point of view especially after your phone call and a promise made........

At least you know your other dogs breeder well, exactly what to expect and that you will be more than happy with the pup and the service, after all it is a life-time of service so you need a breeder that you can connect with even if not even as friend and only on so much as dog talk, (nothing better than telling the breeder about wins etc. ;-) ) for those of us looking for a potential showdog/working dog, it often is just about the reputation and the linage, but for many I know it often can be about the people connections too, most of us make life-time friendships with our puppies owners, we are the people you need to be able to turn to, if that is missing it can be very important to decisions made or not!

Good luck next year.  You know you will be happy with your pup and the breeder. :-) But still, what a shame that it ended like this.