I have an on going back problem that is causing me grief. Recently, it has triggered a sciatic nerve problem and basically, the doctors have told me there is nothing they can do but prescribe valium and painkillers. Neither of which are helping much. I know that I am stuck with this problem for life now, but I wondered if there is anything else that I could do or take for the problem, apart from exercise? I know nothing about homeopathy or the like and wondered if it might be worth looking into? Some one suggested acupuncture, but I'm not good with needles. I suppose acupuncture would work because I would pass out cold :rolleyes:

Any suggestions would be welcome, as I am going up the wall :-(

Leigh

I do sympathise - I've been suffering back problems lately too. O tore a muscle in my back wile on holiday - the pain was awful. I also suffered a touch of sciatica earlier this week that has fortunatley passed off now - but the discomfort is terrible. You just cannot get comfortable.

I don't have any magic cures:( but do hope you can find something that works for you.

best wishes

Pam n the boys

Pam, I am sorry to hear you hurt your back too. Having torn ligaments in my knee, I know how painful that can be too. Hope you are ok :-)

Leigh, I have an ongoing back problem, but not the same as yours, so I dont know wether my helpful bits will be of any help to you. GENTLE exercises, designed for me by a chiropractor, hurt at first, but also, after a while begin to give relief. A warm hot water bottle on the spot also soothes after a while, but not so good in hot weather!! :D I do hope you find something that helps. long term back problems are a blooming nightmare. Chin up, you are not on your own!!! xxx

Hi Leigh

It hurt like hell when I did it - I only bent down to pick my watch up - we were in France on holiday by the pool!!! It happened two days before we were due to come home. I literally couldn't move and the next two weeks were horrendous. Fortunately our car has heated seats and they are fully supporting - it was the most comfortable place to be so travelling home was OK. I've never found going to the loo so difficlut - sitting down and standing up again were the most difficult maneouvres:D

It is much much better now - I hust get the odd twinge - aches a bit today but it's livable with.

I do hope you find something that works for you soon. Chronic back pain is no laughing matter.

Pam n the boys

Acupuncture is not like having an injection - honestly. I have been having problems with my knees and decided to start acupuncture 3 weeks ago. I can't really say the first session did much good although it wasn't unpleasant and I almost went to sleep on the couch. The second session however was marvellous. On walking out of the surgery I realised that my knees were far better and I had far less pain. It was not total relief but it helped dramatically until I rather overdid things a week later. The third session has helped again. The needles are left in place for about 20 minutes and it is incredibly relaxing, I just lie there, quite comfortable and feel as if its just too much trouble to open my eyes again. I was sceptical before I started but am now convinced that the pain killing bit works.

My brother (a totally scientific doctor who doesn't believe in complementary medicines as they can't be proved scientifically) has been using a Chiropractor for his back and has amazed himself by finding it helps him, that might also be worth a try.

Good luck with what you try, but please don't worry about the needles, it is totally different from having injections.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Hi Joan, it's getting to the stage where I am going to try anything to get the pain to go away. If nothing else works, I will give the needles careful consideration :-) Thank you for the reasurance.

How far up the Doctor ladder have you progressed Leigh, in our area there is a pain clinic which is run by anaesthetists specialising in pain control, a friend of mine attends for regular nerve block injections with good effect. If you have something like this in your area you could try asking your GP or consultant to refer if they have not already.

Isabel and Lara,

Not got pass first base yet. They have been fobbing me off for nearly twenty years now but I am starting to get angry with them now. Everytime I see a different Dr. they say something different :-( I am noting all these suggestions and next time I go, I will be prepared for them.

Leigh , you have my sympathies ...I suffer from sciatica ...it began with my 4th pregnancy but was confined to the time I was pregnant until 3 years ago when I slipped on something at work ...now I am prone to sciatica at any time.

After many painful weeks over the years ....I have found that the ONLY thing that will help relieve the pain is sitting on a hot water bottle after having a warm bath.

My doctor prescribes me codydromol tablets (one of the strongest you can get) but these dont even touch the pain and I have been known to be reduced to crawling over the living room floor and up the stairs as I can't walk.

Try the HWB and bath routine ..it does help

All the best
Melody

Leigh,

Have you thought of using a tens machine ( Transcutaneous electro-nerve stimulation ) they are very good but don't work for everyone.
You can buy them for about £80 but you can hire them for about £24 for 4 or 5 weeks to see if one would work.

A lot of pregnant woman use them as a form of pain relief during labour.

When I was a nurse we used tens machines a lot on people with back probs and results were very good.

Karen

Karen, I had never heard of it until you mentioned it :-) I will make a note. Thank you for the suggestion.

Hi Melody,

in the end you don't know what to do for the best. One Doctor told me hot baths, the other Doctor told me cold baths because you want to *cool* the nerve down not inflame it more. One said total bed rest, the other excercise! I don't know whether I am coming or going, so am just going by instinct at the moment. The last time I had sciatica, I could move around because my back hadn't gone, this time I can hardly walk :-(

Leigh ...I have tried both and have found warm bath best ...but try either or both and see which feels better....my sister also gets Sciatica but she can afford to go to a osteopath ..£25 a go in West London ...she says he helped her no end.

Have found that if I can stand it , excercise does help ..but the first few minutes seem like an eternity until it suddenly starts to ease up....

Hope that helps a bit

Melody

Thanx Melody.
It's £25+ here as well, but to be honest, if they can make the pain go away it will be money well spent.

Find yourself a Registered Osteopath Leigh. http://www.osteopathy.org.uk/
They'll manipulate to free your sciatic nerve, relax the tense muscles, re-adjust anything else that has gone out of alignment to compensate for the original problem and therefore relieve the pain!

Val, do you know what the difference is between an osteopath and a chiropractor? I am getting totally confused between the two. Some people highly recommend chiropractors and condemn osteopaths and others, the complete reverse. As I don't know the difference, I suppose it would help if I knew :D

"Both Osteopaths and Chiropractors use manipulative therapies based on the science of human mechanics. They are mainly used for the treatment of spinal pain. However, the Osteopath and Chiropractor also believe that the structure of the spine greatly influences health.
Chiropractic places chief importance on the integrity of the spine. The Osteopath also emphasises the role that the soft tissue has on the skeletal framework and general health of the body." (Taken from the Australian Natural Therapists Association website)

Other articles I read suggested that the main difference might be in their method of diagnosis, chiropractors use more x-ray than osteopaths for instance. Another site mentioned that chiropractors use more short lever manipulation whereas osteopaths use long lever manipulation. There are also suggestions that in time the two professions might well combine and point out their very similar history.

One asian site I looked at said it probably didn't matter which of the two you go to, the important thing is to find someone reputable who comes highly recommended. That sounds to me like excellent sense.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Thank you for the information Joan. I will make some more enquiries. I have had a chiropractor recommened to me that is about an hours drive away from me. But several people have spoken very highly of this gentleman and to be honest, I would rather go on a recommendation than just stick a pin in the yellow pages :-)

It's funny you should mention an asian site. My local newsagent has been volunteering to *sort* my back out for ages. He told me I had a *spine* problem the first time he saw me and I was ok at that moment ... lol I declined his kind offer but every time I see him, he *tuts* at me :rolleyes:

Leigh I have this lovely Picture
In it is Val and her parents beaming proudly at her one and only daughter .
Wearing the board cap and black robe holding a diploma after ,becoming a fully fledged osteopath . :) :)

Hi Mari, Val has been very helpful and I will be making further enquiries ;-)

Hi Leigh

Don't know if this is much help...or if you have already tried it...but have you tried "Reiki" (Sp?).

Apparently that is supposed to be very good for muscular problems etc..

NAtasha

Hi Natasha, I have never heard of Reiki? Have you got any other details?

Hi Leigh

I shall try and get some, its like a healing sort of thing...they use it on the horses as well as humans and it is supposed to be very good. Will see what I can find out.

Regards.

Natasha

I was extremely sceptical about Accupuncture, but following a car accident a few years ago I was left with a lot of neck/shoulder/upper back pain, and restricted movement. conventional phsyio. was making no improvements at all, so therapist suggested she should try accupuncture - the needles did not hurt at all, nothing like an injection, and after just the first session I had improved mobility in my neck. After a course of sessions I had almost no pain left, and much increased movement in both my neck and shoulder. I wouldn't hesitate to use on any future problems.

Tried Reiki too, last year for some back stiffness -was talked into it by a friend, who had found a therapist who treated dogs as well, and one of my dogs had a recuring back problem. He has had one operation, and one recurrence of the problem, but had been fine for a year, when I notice one morning that his tail had flopped - you could see he though he was wagging, but nothing was moving! He had had 'floppy tail' for almost 3 weeks when we went for Reiki - I was treated first, and could not say I felt anything at all. Put my boy on the table, she did the same hand movements, commenting on a "hot spot" exactly where he had had his operation. He sat like a little angel throughout the session, and when I lifted him onto the floor he stood up and wagged his tail enthusiatically! (Remember he had not been able to way for 3 weeks!). We went for 4 more 'treatments' - no difference with me, but his back/tail haven't 'looked back' since!

Gwen, thank you for the information. Hopefully, I can find something in this thread that will ease the problem a little.

Leigh have you had x-rays and an MRI scan? or have you just been fobbed off by your GP like I was for years? :(
I know how miserable you must be with it.
Try Glucosamine Sulphate.

Hi Lara, I answered you in with Isabels reply. But I will try this Glucosamine Sulphate. Is it freely available or will I have to order it? Thanx for the info :-)

Hi Leigh

Your post angered me as you are in the same boat as I was being fobbed off. My current GP I've been seeing for seven years on and off about this.
The last time which was very recently - instead of walking in and complaining of my back pain I walked in and asked him (actually it wasn't him but a startled locum sitting in his chair!) what was the reason for not referring me to the hospital to see a consultant? I asked him why I was being fobbed off for years? He said there was no reason and wrote me a letter of referral there and then.
I have now had my xray only two weeks ago. I've been told that my lower vertebrate has moved and the disc has degenerated. No GP could have know that from a quick feel! I've been told that I need surgery to fuse it BUT it depends on the state of the rest of my back whether it is worth operating on. I am waiting an appointment for the MRI scan which will tell them what they need to know. This really p***** me off as the rest of my discs could have degenerated considerably over the years and my job is very physical. I don't doubt that I have been stressing the rest of my back by over compensating for my injury. If they can't operate then I will be referred to pain management and have to just get on with it.
I'm sure I can hear GP's sigh and think ~Oh! another sicknote for a skiver required - yawn!~ every time someone comes in complaining of back pain. I've never accepted one yet! but when you have a heavy dog dragging on you it really damn hurts!
On another note - exercise has really helped to strengthen the muscles around my spine which helps a LOT!!
And the Glucosamine Sulphate is really widely available - I get mine from Tescos!
Back to your GP Leigh! This time it's time to demand action!!
Good luck :)
Lara

Hi Lara, I was very lucky,unlike you. The first time I went to my GP he referred me to hospital for x rays, so I started to get treatment straight away. I agree with you, Leigh should go straight back to the GP and ask for more ongoing tests etc.

Lara,
I think we have been in the same boat and I agree that the original injury will no doubt have caused more damage to my spine. I think the latest sciatic problem is proving that. On a previous visit, my doctor told me that I would have to give up my dogs, motorbikes, riding, shooting etc. He made me feel like my life was over and I honestly felt like I should just crawl into a corner and stay there. I was very depressed. Luckily, Paul talked some common sense into me and to be frank, I'll be damned if I give anything up!

Interesting what you said about *sicknotes* too. That was the first thing the doctor offered me when I walked in the door. She then went on to give me a lecture about posture, and promptly sat back in her chair in a slumped position!

You are right, I should have stood up to my doctor years ago, but you trust their judgement don't you?

I sorted my vet out the other day .. Doctor next .. lol ... I will be getting a reputation at this rate ;-)

Thanx again

Hi Leigh,

I've just caught up with this thread and all I can say is OUCH!! :( I suffered terribly with my hips whilst I was pg with Squidgy and I ended up in hospital for a few days with a separated pelvis being assessed by the physio department.

In my experience the NHS isn't very good with nerve pain and after being proded and poked and told that if I lost some weight I'd be much better I gave up and went to see a chiropractor.

I travelled from Reading to Bournemouth to see a chap that my MIL goes to and after 2 sessions I was able to stand and walk without too much pain. Before I'd seen him I couldn't stand up and then take a step without my pelvis crunching and my nerves being pinched :(

It did get a lot better after I'd had Squidgy and although I still have some residual pain I haven't needed to see the chiropractor since she was born. (Losing weight has helped, but I'd never tell my GP that!!)

I hope the Chiropractor can sort you out - it'll make a huge diference to your life if he can. :)

Fiona
x x x

As for being told to give up Motorbikes! What was the GP thinking off :( Don't they realise us Bikers are an endangered species!!

Hi Leigh, like some of the others, I think the first thing you should do is have a long talk with your GP. I'm very surprised that she has told you there is nothing to be done. Vague lower back pain can be very difficult to manage, but the more specific it is, the better the chance of treating it - and sciatic nerve problems are specific, especially if there is an old injury! If you haven't had the appropriate investigations, there is really no way to say what can or can't be done. 'Trust me, I'm a doctor' is a load of old codswallop. In this day and age, no doctor can have more than superficial knowledge outside their own areas of specialisation, but regrettably some still seem to think that they have to play God.

If we are going to moan about Doctors ...I am there all the way.

When we moved back to Lincs ...I took myself off to the Docs and asked for regular scans. In Middx , because my mother died from ovarian cancer and her sister now has breast cancer , I was considered to be at risk of developing the same and there are very few obvious signs of OC until it is too late. Also , during my operation to be sterilized I was found to have a HUGE ovarian cyst.

Anyway ...my doctor said :

1. We dont DO routine scans in Lincolnshire
2. Routine scans are not helpful in diagnosing ovarian cancer
3. Wait until you have symptoms.

When I pointed out to him that waiting until you have symptoms can be a terminal occupation , he stated that the only SURE way to detect cancer is to have a blood test. I then asked him for the test. He replied *We dont DO the blood test routinely*

*sigh*

So here I sit ...wondering if I have a time bomb inside me :)

Melody - Not a friend of Doctors

Oh yes ..and it was after having back pain (20 years ago) that I had a blood test which showed I have a mild form of Lupus , it is amazing what blood tests can show :)

Hi Sharon.
She actually told me that, quote: "millions of people suffer from back problems and there is nothing that can be done about it. You just have to live with it." I am going to make an appointment with the head honcho this time and see what he has to say for himself.

The solution is in the post to you as I type.

Rushing down to the shops to get the film processed will make you forget the pain LOL

Got to get you standing up straight within the next few weeks else Delores will have to come to me :-) ;-D

Lots of love

Jayne
xx

PS What normally helps me is the fabric pouches filled with corn that you heat in the microwave, I am often to be seen with them wrapped round the relevant part!!!!!

Excellent! ... I feel better already Daz :D

I think you might have to fight Pad for her though ;-)

Keep the cuddles up Jayne :-)

Do you mean like handwarmers or popcorn .. lol
Would a hipflask with homemade sloe gin have the same effect? .. lol .. tried a bottle of cabernet once, with valium .. didn't come *down* for a week :D

Leigh xxx

Hi Leigh,
Have just caught up with this thread, My hubby slipped at work about 10 years ago, and suffered a slipped disk, which caused terrible sciatic pain, at the bottom of his back and down both legs.
He now suffers from sciatic pain on and off constantly, and has pain killers, but finds the only cure is to go to the Osteopathin Wakefield, West Yorks who sorts him out. :) He charges £25 each time, but well worth it. They also give you exercises to do while your at home, to get you moving again.
He has been backwards and forwards,with numerous x-rays at hospitals, which nothing showed up.
Craig, (HUBBY) swears by them now, and bypasses the doctor, and goes straight to see his Osteopath, when he feels his back is gonna go again.
Hope this helps.
Jane :)

Jane, thank you for the feedback. I must say that most people I have spoken to have given up with their doctors and gone to see specialists. Being the cynic that I am, I am sure this is what the doctors want you to do, as it doesn't cost them money then As I am feeling very bloody minded at the moment, I will go and see my doctor again and kick ass there first and see how far we get. Like your Craig, I *know* when my back is going to go, although the sciatic problem tends to sneak up on me at the moment. I am glad Craig got some help :-)

Leigh,

I think you should visit an osteopath. (An osteopath deals with the whole body, while a chiropractor only deals with the back.) Your newsagent sounds interesting, because he can spot that you have a problem. Is he a practitioner as well?

Doctors (and Parliament) are now recognising osteopaths as useful complementary medical practitioners. Historically a doctor was not allowed to associate with an osteopath or recommend one without being struck off the medical register! I think that this still prevents some doctors from recognising osteopaths as genuine.

I think that your GP may be able to refer you to an osteopath, but I am not sure about this. If not, I would suggest that you find one, preferably through personal recommendation.

There is also a vet (I don't know his name) who uses osteopathy on animals.

Michael
4 August 2002

Michael,

thank you for the information. I have no idea if my newsagent is a practitioner or not. Unfortunately, it didn't occur to me to ask! I will be making an appointment to see my GP again and in the mean time, I will make enquiries about getting specialist help.

Leigh

Leigh,
All my sympathies to you. :) :) :) I've been the 'helper' for serious back pain since I was little. One of my earliest memories is around age 3 when my mom was in a huge traction machine in the bedroom. Talk about scary.

Since the 1960s, she was told by various drs. that the pain and immovability was 'all in her head.' Yeah, I could walk faster than her (not run) when I was 2 years old. :rolleyes:

It's been in the last 5 years that she's actually experienced some form of helpful medicine and not the 'head' excuse of older drs. Her spine has fused at S1/S2 vertebra and the sciatica nerve is permanently pinched. Surgery is out because of her 'age'.

What's just funny annoying, is due to Khobar Towers explosion in Saudi a while back, my husband also had the same injury. Within 6 months, surgery to remove the contacting bone fragments and it eased the pressure and subsequent pain. Other than some permanent nerve damage on the back of his thigh, he's greatly improved. :rolleyes:

She reads a lot of books and employs a variety of strategies in stretching to relieve the pain. She's had the spinal steroid shot series and those really helped for quite a while. She's been seeing an Osteopath who does manipulation, and it's been greatly helpful. Acupuncture didn't help out for her. But she's seen it on others.

Her philosophies --- use it or lose it (bedrest is bad since it surrenders to the immobility).
She prefers using frozen veggies on her back to 'ice' the swelling down.
{I think it's personal on which works better --heat is better for my back aches}

Despite all the drs. warning her off of riding, it is the best therapy for her mind and body for her to get out and see her "Beamer". She found a horse with a short back that 'walks' perfectly for her. If she rides anyone else's horse, she's crippled for the next several days. Walking ties her up in knots, but her horse's walking makes her feel better. :) So her final philosophy is: Find a passion that takes your mind off of the pain (if all possible)

Leigh, I really hope that you find out something that will work for you. If there's anything that I can do to help (find out book titles, exact therapies, etc...) please don't hesitate to ask :) Back problems are worse than cramps, esp. when pain spasms are seizing up the bod. :(
All my best,
sara

>>So her final philosophy is: Find a passion that takes your mind off of the pain

Thanx Sara, I can think of several ;-)

Hi Leigh,
I really sympathise with you, being nearly 5ft 9" tall I have suffered back problems nearly all my life. Have been fobbed off with the usual "There's not much we can do about back pain" rubbish I learned to live with it. Recently I have begun to suffer from sciatica (Painful!!) and the sudden onset of lumbago. My Dr prescribed me a course of Diclofenac tablets and they are wonderful! almost instant relief. The side effect is that it tends to upset the stomach a bit and I need the loo more often, but that is doing wonders for the weight!

Hi Kez,
I have had some success with diclofenac in the past for my back problem, but have found it to be useless for the sciatic problem, unless I top it up with nurofen plus AND before you all shout at me .. I know I shouldn't mix them, but sometimes needs must.
Thanx for the feedback :-)

Hi Leigh, just catching up with posts and it's taking me ages.....lol

Both my mam and I suffer very bad back pain for different reasons. I gave up with my GP and now see an osteopath every 4 - 6 weeks for maintenance. I have to say that I can't sing her praises enough. I have seen both a chiropractor and an osteopath and no offence to chiropractors of course but the osteopath is the one for me.

When I asked what the difference was between the two I was told that the 'C' only works and manipulates the joint whereast the 'O' works the joint and the surrounding muscles and soft tissue. Apparently by working the soft tissue at the same time it speeds up the healing process because if you only work the joint then because the soft tissue can be taught and part of the problem it can pull the joint back into the painful position it was originally in hence a 'C' usually requires to see you on a more regular basis (more expense) whereast an 'O' usually leaves it at least a week before seeing you again and they work on increasing the amount of time between treatments. I used to go every week for about 3 weeks, then once a fortnight for about 3 weeks, then once a month and now every 6 weeks or so. Does that make sense or am I waffling ?!

My mam on the other hand has seen her osteopath 2 or 3 times and that seemed suffice for the type of problem she has. Her GP has been very little use and was not impressed when she told him she had been to see an 'O' Her GP sent her for xrays and she's been told 3 or 4 different diagnoses so she's still trying to find out exactly what it is she is suffering from but it's almost certainly a type of osteoarthritis.

My bad back is from a fall a few years ago but because I broke my hip when riding a horse my hip tends to aggrivate my back, something to do with the alignment of my pelvis. I am still taking the Glucosamine Sulphate which I got from http://www.naturesbestonline.co.uk My GP also told me to give up horseriding and so on, my osteopath laughed and said the worst thing I could do would be to not stay fit, imagine the trouble excess weight would cause to my hip and spine. She said the best thing would be trial and error, do something say like horseriding, if my hip or back hurt like hell then I knew I was either not to do it or do it a different way or in moderation.

Regarding hot and cold treatments I was given the following guideline. If you want to reduce inflammation of any kind then you use the cold treatment, so if my arthritis in my hip plays up I put a cold pack on the area, same applies if I have a tension headache I put a cold pack on the back of my neck and it reduces the blood flow to the vessels in my head, seems to help. For anything else you use a hot treatment but not direct heat i.e. wrap a hot water bottle up in a towel etc. etc.

Anyway I'm waffling so I hope this info is of some use and that you are feeling better soon. :-)

Leigh you've probably had all the info you need by now but still me being me I'll still add my tuppence worth:) First let me tell you my Dad suffers with the Sciatic nerve problem tremendously and I have one leg slightly longer than the other (only about 1/4 to 1/2 inch before you start imagining me with a big wooden block on the sole of my shoe;) ).

A colleague of mine and very dear friend has a Son who has the same problem as me and something wrong with his jaw being out of line. He's began seeing an osteopath for this problem and hey've helped him no end- he didn't even know about the leg problem it was just the bad back that made him go. Then he realised he had the problem with the leg and apparently your hips aren't necessarily horizontal so they've compensated which in turn his spine had bore the brunt of it- due to his spine being all twisted it's affected his jaw! To cut a long story short he's now near enough sorted out and apparently looks taller now that he's not all scrunched up:) The Osteopath has also helped his Mother (my colleague) she suffers back problems- probably with sitting at a desk all day:)

The next time my leg starts to play up I'm going to see the Osteopath:) And the next time my Dad's Sciatica begins to play up he's off too! My Dad had two really bad bouts of it last year before Christmas- so bad he couldn't move at all! Since then he still has problems but he can live with it day to day- but he too swears if it ever gets really bad again he's going.

I think it costs £30 for the first visit and £20 for each visit afterwards- there is no committment to visit every week either;) Prices do vary but I should think they're all roughly the same? Honestly Leigh the reccommendations I've being given re the osteopath- it's money very well spent! Get yourself off to one:)

Stacey x x x

Thanx for the feedback Stacey. The original back/leg injury occured after a motorcycle accident 20 years ago. Several months flat on my back and then six months on crutches, carting a full size leg plaster cast around, put a huge strain on my back. The sciatic problem is recent, but I suppose it is all linked to that original injury and then years of *working* with an untreated injury.
I have decided not to waste my time with my doctor (for now) and will go and see what an osteopath has to say. Fingers crossed :-)

Thank you everyone for all your suggestions.

As usual, much appreciated :-)

Hi I had a similar thing, sciatica, joint pain and general inability to move first thing in the morning :( NHS finally got me to a physio who could straightne me out but it all went back. Eventually got some bespoke insoles which correctteh way I stand and walk and together with streatching it appears to have put me right :)

Hi Claire, thanx for all the info. I found out the hard way that warm baths are not the way to go for my sciatic problem and yet sitting with my foot in a bowl of iced water helped, if only temporarily :-) I will let you know how I get on.