Can someone offer any advice, we're at our wits end.

Duke is a 14 year old flat coated x, his brother Sam passed away last Xmas, they fought often in the last 2 to 3 years.
Jessie is a 12 year old Staffy x, she is always having a snap at Duke, he doesn't fight back, she rarely goes further than a warning.
Archie is a 1 year old Border Terrier x, he plays and play fights with Jessie continually, Duke and Archie hate each other, Duke gives Archie a warning and Archie jumps in fearlessly, Duke tries to retreat but Archie continues his frenzied attacks. Once they 'start' it is 'full on', Archie generally bits Dukes back and bottom end very nastily, Duke has been know to have Archies head in his mouth and has hurt him quite badly on occasions.

Duke has been having very minor strokes (we think) for some time now, he gets forgetfull for a while then comes around in a day or two and is 'normal' again, we are very concerned that one of these attacks (which he usually starts) will prove fatal.

We have taken to seperating Duke and Archie on a permanent basis, sharing them with Jessie as much as possible, we know this isn't particularly the way forward but we're in such a muddle.

Can anybody offer any advice on this complex situation please.

Regards

Donnybluewayne

Further info....

Jessie is spayed, Duke and Archie are entire, Duke is a no go at his age for castration.

Help

tks

I don't really have any helpful advice, I'm afraid, but it sounds like you might need professional help.

Duke sounds like an elder Cavalier King Charles I had many years ago. She started going senile at 13 years old and in the end we had to make the awful decision to let her go. It is possible that young Archie sees Dukes behaviour and is feeling frightened by it. Dogs will attack other dogs if things aren't 'normal'. Unfortunately this is normal canine behaviour. They feel that the pack is in danger so try to rid it of the one that is different.

Archie is also at the age where he will test the waters, so to speak. He is no longer a puppy and will trying to push his way up the ladder, especially as the other male is elderly. Again this is normal behaviour.

I do hope that someone can give you some good advice but understanding the problem is the first step.

Good luck.

castrate archie? he feels he is boss in this elderly population. i wonder why you got such a young dog with 2 oldies?

> We have taken to seperating Duke and Archie on a permanent basis, sharing them with Jessie as much as possible, we know this isn't particularly the way forward but we're in such a muddle.
>

I think it is your only way forward.  I don't think it would be fair to Duke to have it any other way now.  It is not a situation that can last forever by the nature of things so worth doing to give him peace for his twilight years.

agree with Isabel.

I would also go to training classes with Archie get him socialised with other dogs or this could turn into a behaviour with other dogs and he will become a nighmare in his mature years.

We lost Dukes brother Sam and we felt the need to get in a youngster to perk up the two oldies, it is well known to help older dogs become more active.

Archie does socialise with other dogs, not very well I have to say, in fact Archie doesn't seem to like cows, sheep, horses, or anything really.

I think maybe we have a bit of a rogue, not for the first time mind, we are true dog lovers and will percivere, Duke seems as happy as ever seperated from Archie and they get on great during walks.

Fortunately we have a large house and grounds in which to seperate them without too much trouble.

Thankyou for everyones advice

Would welcome any more out there.

Re the castration, I'm for it but Mrs is against it......we'll see....

it is well known to help older dogs become more active.

Its a well known myth that older dogs need a youngster to perk up their life... they deserve to be allowed piece in their latter yrs.

As you already had a house full of unrest between your dogs, it may have been unwise to  to bring in a young dog amongst these oldies..

I would carry on a you are, keeping them seperate , allowing the old FC  to see his last days out, without being picked on by young Archie

Excuse me, but I have rescued dogs for 40 years, I am taking this episode as a one off, it is no 'myth' as you put it about younger dogs perking up older ones, IT IS FACT. Yes they do need 'peace' not 'piece' as you put it 0-))) but Jessie and Duke love the running about that Archie has reinstalled into their walks, which where fast becoming a very slow affair.

We didn't actually have a 'house full of unrest', we had the occasional event that we could do without, crikey you make me out to be an utter half wit, I am on this forum for advice not condemnation...thankyou.

Duke although he is 14 and has the occasional 'glitch' is a very active dog, and can run miles when out on a walk, he still stands up against me on his hind legs, so not your average 14 years old, albeit I wake every morning relieved to see his little face, at 14 I know time is short.

One thing I have noticed since getting Archie is Dukes intolerence to him, I believe it is just a mutual dislike between them.

Duke is my baby, I would do nothing, absolutely nothing to spoil his life, we usually holiday at a friends hotel in Barbados, we haven't been for 3 years or more because of the dogs getting older, in November we were supposed to fly out there for a wedding we really couldn't avoid, Duke had a turn two weeks before so we CANCELLED, that's how committed we are, I absolutely adore the man.

Excuse me, but I have rescued dogs for 40 years, I am taking this episode as a one off, it is no 'myth' as you put it about younger dogs perking up older ones, IT IS FACT

Excuse me,  but you came here asking for advice , as you put it, "at your wits end"....   with over 40 yrs of dog experience  you would know that not all old dogs appreciate young boisterous  dogs disrupting  their life, not to mention being attacked by them.

Duke is a 14 year old flat coated x, his brother Sam passed away last Xmas, they fought often in the last 2 to 3 years.
Jessie is a 12 year old Staffy x, she is always having a snap at Duke, he doesn't fight back, she rarely goes further than a warning.
Archie is a 1 year old Border Terrier x, he plays and play fights with Jessie continually, Duke and Archie hate each other, Duke gives Archie a warning and Archie jumps in fearlessly

This does not sound like a "one off" to me... and my "myth"  as I put it, refers to why you would want  to perk up an oldies life when he has been the object of the others picking in him... why not allow him to have enjoyed his days in peace LOL!!

There is no need to get all defensive , you asked for opinions, you got them,  sometimes we like what we hear , sometimes we dont.

And for my opinion, which I am entitled too , is that I would not have added a new pup to two old dogs who already have  the occasional fight.

> Its a well known myth that older dogs need a youngster to perk up their life... they deserve to be allowed piece in their latter yrs.
>

I must disagree about this being a myth. My oldie was PTS this Sept at the age of 14 & half years, we got a puppy last Oct and it really did give the old boy a new zest for life, I made sure he had all the peace he wanted but it really did him the world of good having a pup around. As long as the old dogs need for rest & peace is respected it can be wonderfull bringing a puppy into the home and the oldie can help to teach the house rules (ie, ignoring other dogs barking/people passing the garden, bark to go in the garden etc..).

must disagree about this being a myth. My oldie was PTS this Sept at the age of 14 & half years, we got a puppy last Oct and it really did give the old boy a new zest for life, I made sure he had all the peace he wanted but it really did him the world of good having a pup around. As long as the old dogs need for rest & peace is respected it can be wonderfull bringing a puppy into the home and the oldie can help to teach the house rules (ie, ignoring other dogs barking/people passing the garden, bark to go in the garden etc..).

Yes I understand your point, and agree with the fact it can help an old dog, regain some zest of life.

Maybe I worded it wrong,  my point, being that it is a myth that a old dog needs a younger one to  enhance its life, some will enjoy the experience some wont.

That's a fair point, old dogs don't NEED younger dogs, but in my considerable experience they enhance an old dogs life in the right circumstances ie when the old dogs are given their own space etc. They most certainly enhance the longevity of an older dogs life by making the older dog more competitve at dinner time and walkies time.

> my point, being that it is a myth that a old dog needs a younger one to  enhance its life,

I agree :)

I think it good to have a new pup join a home with the oldies about, I feel that the young pups learn so much better by learning from them. Rather than waiting for the oldie to die then waiting [grieving] then getting a new pup in your life.
I had to have my girl PTS then realised how empty I was without a dog so BF brought a puppy within 6 weeks of losing my girl, I found it very hard to bond with the new pup.

Saying that I was then only a ONE dog owner! Unlike now having 3 in my life but it is great having a pack.

> I think it good to have a new pup join a home with the oldies about

It think it is a very individual thing.  The OP dog is demonstrating one dog that clearly is not enjoying the experience. 
I have always had a mixture of ages and they have all got on very well until my present oldie who really does not appreciate giddy youngsters so when her previous companion died I did not replace her. Now that she is 14 I could not contemplate subjecting her to having to deal with one.  When she goes I face not having a single dog in my house for the first time in over 25 years but that is for me to deal with.
I suppose if someone was considering it the best way to determine whether it will benefit them or not is to engineer the opportunity to spend some time in the company of a youngster and see what comes of it before committing them to it.

Most definitely depends on the dogs personality- my old girl who I had PTS did not really tolerate young pups and would make the most scary snarly face at them, it does depend on the breed a lot too bringing in a terrier pup to an old hunting type would do there head in as very full on as puppies are terriers IMO I think as well- having bull breeds English and staff X's who love to snuggle up and my old boy is the most tolerate of dogs ever. I would certainly think twice too on getting a pup with an very old dog at 14 I'm sure I would not leave it that long. :-) 9 to 12 would be a better age. 

Hi, i think it would be helpful to have somone fresh look at your situation it doesn't have to be a proffessional just someone with a relative amount of experience who can watch the dogs actions/ reactions with an open mind.
i have 6 dogs with varying ages most rescue dogs and varying breeds and i find sometimes i can watch them for hours but not tuely see what is going on because i'm biast!!! <- not sure how the word should be spelt but i'm sure you'll all get it!!! ha ha