Hi I didn't know if to put this in showing or Behaviour, I have been showing Fredie My Male Rottie for almost 4 years, he has gained his JW, ShCM, 2RCC & a CC. Now recently his behaviour in the ring has changed, he has started ,glaring at other dogs , and when we move together, he either pulls to get to the dog in front or turns and goes for the dog behind. Of course both are undesirable.
At his last show I had a bad hand over from another handler helping me with the running and ,she loosed Fredie's lead before I had got hold,The handler behind had carried on running a few steps ,and Fredie turned and grabbed the dog, It was all over very quickly, and no harm was done.
I have removed Fredie from the ring for the time being untill I address this behaviour, I also Apologised publically and privately to the other dogs owner, I was just wondering if anyone else had dealt with anything similar , or had any advice on how best to deal with it.
Thanks in advance
Sarah xx
ps some other info, Fredie as been used at stud, I have his son here at home, who Fredie is SUBMISSIVE to, Fredie doesn't guard, Never growls or attacks dogs in the street, and is as good as gold in his obedience class.where he has gained his KCGC Gold award.

If his behaviour is changing it's also worth getting his health checked over.
Medical conditions like Hypothyroidism can lead to changes in behavioiur.

Once the medical aspect has been checked, then it's changing the behaviour learned in the ring.
Has he had a dog go for him when he was showing ever? As he may 'feel' that he wants to get in first.
The only ways to try and lessen the problems are to go first or last in each class that you are entered in.
Thus you will either have no-one in front or no-one behind when on the first/last stand or when moving so one less dog to worry about.
Although as you move round to have your turn with the judge you will be sandwiched between dogs.

Is he worse at champ shows where it's just all males in the class or it doesn't matter he'll do it in the mixed classes at open shows too?

It will be a slow process and to be honest if your dog is 'known' for being a firery character people that are in the same class as
you may not feel happy about you bringing him out again.
So you might want to approach people first who will be in your class before you bring him out again.
Or perhaps you can create mock shows with willing people and their dogs to see if his behavior improves before taking him out
into the 'real' environment.

It's a difficult one, it may be because you are anticipating trouble this goes down the lead and puts him on guard.
Is he better with another experienced handler who won't give him a chance to 'have a pop' and isn't anxious?

You may have to face that he will never be 100% reliable and thus have to completely withdraw him from the show ring.

Hi Sarah, as you know I've got one who's a bit iffy in the ring too!! Lil' Rom'!! :-) , although out of the ring, no hassle.

I sometimes wonder if a different handler may have made a difference, not sure, but maybe worth a try?

Also, (I've seen you handle your dog, and you do handle him really well, so not a put down at all) but, what do you think about just letting him stand for you, as opposed to stacking him? I found Rom' is more relaxed when I don't stack him, it's almost like preparing him to be on his guard, so to speak.

On the running around senario, personally I would have him on a strong chain, high up the neck, on a short lead, so if he does turn round or start chasing, I would have more control. It would act slightly like a halti in the sense you wouldn't be checking him, but pullin his head towards you, preventing him from turning round or putting his head down to chase. You must keep your arm relaxed/down, not stringing him up, so if/when he displays unwanted behaviour, you are quick off the draw in controling the situation, and also he's still on a relaxed (or should I say, not tense) lead & collar. ;-)

Maybe it may be worth having someone you trust handle him at a few open shows? tso you can see from the outside his behaviour, this may help you see key points when he does try these naughty tricks! I don't mind handling him for you, if you want, only an offer of help, he's a nice dog, would be a shame if his behaviour kept him out of the ring

Take Care, Jenny

Hi , thanks both, He is worse at champ shows, I will try with the free standing Jen.
I do think that he's got progressively worse, but Im always afraid to correct at the time in the ring, cause it doesn't look or sound too good, however at ring craft the other day,(since he hasn't been going to shows Ive taken him bak to ringcraft) I ran around with my friends rottie and as soon as we started running , he started growling and turning back, so I gave him a real good correction with his choke chain, and instantly he stopped it, so it may just be he needs to know Its definately a no no.
I hope people don't think of him as an aggressive dog because untill the running starts he is never aggressive. and is such a sweetheart where people are concerned.
sarah xx

Hi , thanks both, He is worse at champ shows, I will try with the free standing Jen.
I do think that he's got progressively worse, but Im always afraid to correct at the time in the ring, cause it doesn't look or sound too good, however at ring craft the other day,(since he hasn't been going to shows Ive taken him bak to ringcraft) I ran around with my friends rottie and as soon as we started running , he started growling and turning back, so I gave him a real good correction with his choke chain, and instantly he stopped it, so it may just be he needs to know Its definately a no no.
I hope people don't think of him as an aggressive dog because untill the running starts he is never aggressive. and is such a sweetheart where people are concerned.
sarah xx

Hi , thanks both, He is worse at champ shows, I will try with the free standing Jen.
I do think that he's got progressively worse, but Im always afraid to correct at the time in the ring, cause it doesn't look or sound too good, however at ring craft the other day,(since he hasn't been going to shows Ive taken him bak to ringcraft) I ran around with my friends rottie and as soon as we started running , he started growling and turning back, so I gave him a real good correction with his choke chain, and instantly he stopped it, so it may just be he needs to know Its definately a no no.
I hope people don't think of him as an aggressive dog because untill the running starts he is never aggressive. and is such a sweetheart where people are concerned.
sarah xx

Perhaps you've answered your own problem...:)
As he's never had any real correction in the show ring he thinks he can do what he likes.
As he's not been corrected he thinks it's an ok behaviour to have.

I must agree though it's so hard as you aren't supposed to be harsh in the ring and with a very big
dog that is trying to assert himself (and probably his hormones) he really needs to be corrected
before it does get out of hand.

As you are doing ringcraft it might be valuable to ask the trainers there and advise that you may
seem to be heavy/harsh with handling but you are trying to rectify a problem/learned behaviour.
Do all your corrections there and hopefully by the time you feel able to bring him out in the 'real'
show environment he will have been re-trained to not have a pop when he feels like it on the move.

Rotti's are big dogs - I 'tried' handling one and they are definately not for the faint hearted.
It was a young puppy and all he wanted was his mum who had another baby in the class.
Certainly nothing like a Boxer they are like feathers compared to Rotti's.
It was so hard as I didn't have enough 'voice' that day (voice box problem) to be able to correct him on the movement so I looked like
a complete pratt and on the move we were awful as he was pulling to be with his mum.
Not at all like the bitches that I've handled for the owner in the past. Fully trained and no problems just concentrate
on the titbits I have (cupboard love).
Perhaps thats another thing - I've got out of practise showing males.

Good Luck.

I'm guessing he is around 4 yrs old now???  I also show Rottie's but my oldest male is only 2 yrs and no where near feeling his feet yet but our GSD only started to hit maturity at 5 years old (he's a big, heavy GSD) he began acting up gradually and it is what I would say he should have done around 18 mths - 2 yrs.

Could your boy just be getting to really feel his feet as such? 

Is he eyeing the other dogs when he is stood or just on the move?

I have to say I wouldn't personally correct mine with a choke chain as it is painful for the dog - you could then get problems stemming from that...dog growls, Freddie responds and gets a sharp tug with a choke chain this = pain so Freddie associates this with the moving dogs and lashes out....ongoing vicious circle ensues..... (only my opinion of course!!)

Have you tried working with him at ringcraft watching the other dogs on the move but keeping Freddie still???  I would personally get mine to stand and wait while other dogs (one to start with then build up the amount) move around him...all the time you are constantly talking and praising him while he is stood still and behaving....feed him extra special treats.

Then try getting a dog to stand still while you move Freddie around.  Build this up gradually....then get Freddie and another dog walking side by side, once he is ok with all these steps you move onto the next one....if he goes backwards at all and grumbles or acts up go back a stage.

Try getting a very calm dog to then move while you are moving Freddie.....slowly first then build up speed.  Before he gets excited stop and stand him....give him time to calm then both dogs move again.

Remember constantly talk to him and praise him....do a bit more obedience work so he looks into you abit more (not ideal in the showring I know but if it means you get instantly get his attention in the ring surely this is more beneficial to you.

I think if he packed in this behaviour when you were running round with another dog at ringcraft when you gave him a check, then don't be afraid to do it in the ring. It looks bad when the dog continually gobs off, but if he focused on the job in hand and stopped, then perhaps try a few open shows, where you can 'keep a paw in' so to speak, and let him know if he does mis-behave, then you'll correct him. I agree with one of the above posters, I think he's realised he can push you a bit in the ring and get away with it.

Also, don't forget, he's a big dog and moves quickly, so also perhaps, when practising, practise with trying to keep him running at your pace, and don't be inclined to try and keep up with him. ;-) As this will encourage him to chase.

I totally see where your coming from with the choke and Although its not something I enjoy doing when he's in the mode so so to speak gentle persuasion just aint having the disired effect, Yes your right on age 4 years and 4 months.So I suppose that does have something to do with it, that combined with his son (8 months) bossing him around at home.
I will however try , you ideas at ring craft next week. I suppose its just a case of decensitises(sp) him where the moveing is concerned, he doesn't instigate eye balling when standing, just goes into this chase and turn behaviour as soon as all the dogs move together, when he moved on his own for his triangle and up and down, no problems a loose lead and a happy chappy.
I do realise its a catch 22 situation with me, I tense up in anticipation , he feels it then behaves like I expect him to lol.
Of course my main concern is him being happy and comfortable and if that did mean he no longer enjoyed showing than so be it, I certainly wouldn't continue for him to have to be miserable.
thanks again for all your advice
Sarahxx
Jen I will try changing his pace to suit mine rather than the other way round, as you know im built for comfort not speed, and he does tend to take off with me at times.

LOL

Yes, I do have visions sometimes of Fredie running off, and just seeing the soles of your shoes!! ;-)