Hi all

I've been reading with interest for a while all the tips and wonder if any of you have advice for me with this one!!

My beautiful springer pup Lexi, seems to have an aversion to going the toilet whilst on the lead, we walk her regularly and are strict with her meal times to make sure we try to "catch her" when she needs to go, as i've pointed out to my OH its as much about training us as it is training her!! but it doesn't seem to matter how long we are out walking her she just doesn't go whilst on the lead and (i am not kidding here) the SECOND she walks through the door bum goes down and then i have another mess to clean up.

It wouldn't be as bad if she was doing it in one place (in the house) so that we could at least use the tray that we brought or newspaper/training pads but she doesn't it is randomly everywhere across the whole of the ground floor (we have stairgates to confine her when we are out) but that isn't much comfort at the minute!!

We watch her when in the house but just don't seem able to catch her, she seriously is the quickest wee'er in the west!!

The only time we have managed with her is off the lead on a long trek and we did all of the usual praise things, people must of thought i was mad with how i was reacting over a wee but i could of cried, I thought it was the break through i needed but....No!

I would just like to say though that we had her very young, she still is very young and i am aware that patience is the key with toilet training we think now that she was only just
6 weeks but at 15 weeks old now i have been constantly cleaning p and p for 9 weeks and i would of expected to see some movements in the right direction

HELP!!

15 weeks is no time at all really and IME it takes longer to housetrain bitches than males - the plus side being when the girls ARE fully housetrained they never seem to have accidents again and ensure novel ways of getting our attention during the night if they have an upset tum so they make it outside :)

Treat her as if she were an 8 week puppy.  Regular supervised only outings into the garden after waking, feeding, playing and hourly in between :)  Have a command word for when she performs - as soon as she is pysically in action (no point being pre-emptive here!) then say 'busy' or 'be clean' or 'hurry up' - whatever you prefer.  Then praise lavishly, with her I'd give a small tipbit too for every success for the next couple of weeks :)  Normally with housetraining I stick to verbal praise but as she's not cottoned on yet to what you want then hopefully something tastey will speed up the process.

I've had youngsters before who in the early months prefer to toilet in the garden and not on walks - it's a security thing.  Not spreading their scent so not advertising their presence to possible predators :)  Encourage her to go before a walk and then take her straight into the garden on return to relieve herself again if you feel its needed.

Accidents, like it or lump it, are always our fault - we either fail to notice the signs or forget to take them out within a sufficiently brief period.  Pups, regardless of breed, have tiny bladders which fill easily so require emptying much more often than adults.  Bowels too - they pretty much go one to one and a half x their number of meals.  Work on that basis and again you should be better able to guesstimate when she's comfortable.

HTH, regards Teri

You are actually expecting too much from her at just 15 weeks, I have a 17 week old pup and it is still very much me catching her when she needs to go so she has the opportunity to go out into the garden, and when they need to go the need is almost instantaneous.  She just hasn't learnt to ask yet, though goes on command when I take her out.

Why is it important your pups goes to toilet on the lead?

I would be accompanying her into the garden and giving the cue word for toileting and then praise.  After every meal or drink, when she wakes up after any excitement and every hour the rest of the time.

As for toileting when away from home, many pups will not toilet where they do not feel safe and confident, it is normal for pups to avoid doing so, probably as in the wild as they are young and vulnerable and toileting will give away their location to predators.

I wouldn't expect much voluntary bladder control before 5 - 6 months, before this it is simply ensuring they have access to toileting areas when they NEED to use them.

Just like Teri says not wanting to toilet during a walk is a security thing (not wanting to leave their scent outside) -one of my bitches wouldn't do it until she was 2 years old unless she really HAD to (she held it all the way from South Yorkshire to Northern Ireland once! about 12 hours), and another at one is not doing it yet. Hence with all my dogs I let them into the garden for a few minutes after a walk, that way I know they have had a chance to go.

I want her to be able go on the lead because our garden isn't comletely secure and we cannot make it that way (long story neighbour disputes) anytime soon so although we are constantly in the garden with her regularly its almost as if she feels like she's being watched and won't/can't go then the second you bring her back in bum's down, like i said i know she's oung and i have had dogs before so i knew what to expect, i just don't remember it being this difficult!!

I do all of the praise/encouragement things, i suppose part of it is me getting very down about the amount of and frequency of cleaning up i am doing and not really understanding why

Can't you put together a make shift pen to give her a secure area in the garden?  It may resolve the problem in part for you.

IME pups that don't like to be 'watched when they go' are fearful for some reason of toileting in front of the owner.  Could she perhaps have been scolded for indoor accidents and made the association that she's 'doing wrong' by going to the toilet?  It could be that somehow she has picked up a negative vibe from someone in the household which is more of an issue in your training ....

When all's said and done the best way forward is to take her out regularly, praise the good, ignore the bad and be 100% observant and consistent :)

> its almost as if she feels like she's being watched

She is! :-D

Try a long lead and keep a bit of distance so she doesn't get that 'performance pressure'

When you take her out in the garden to toilet, keep her on the lead, and wait until she goes, if you wait long enough she will.
When you are in the house keep her on a light lead tied to your belt.
If she starts to go, you drop whatever you are doing and run like crazy for the garden, she will also run along (she has to, she is tied to your belt),  if you are vigilant and run for the door as soon as she starts to sniff and circle you will achieve successes which you can reward.
Any accidents should be cleared up very calmly, she isn't being naughty, she just hasn't learnt yet.

Thank you i love this idea, can just see me legging it to the garden neighbours will think i've lost the plot!!

just like to add i have never ever told her off for messing in the house, as i said i'm well aware it is about training us more than her, the only thing i'm not sure about is waiting until she goes, i'm really not convinced that she will give in before me.....an hour and 45 minutes my OH was out there the other day lol

Thank you all

>an hour and 45 minutes my OH was out there the other day lol

Ahhh I've been there ;) - twice!    

The latest pup is 71/2 months old and wouldn't wee in the garden if I was there (or anyone else)  there was just too much to see!
Then as we came in thru the door bum down and a puddle! 

The way I dealt with it was to put her outside when I saw her circling and not allow her back in until she had done a wee/poo - watching thru the windows (which means in my house running from the living room window, thru the kitchen and into the bathroom and leaping into the bath and opening the window and back again every time she went out of sight :-D ) lots of fun!    At the same time I would be saying "hurry up" as she went and then mad rush to the back door with a piece of ham to reward :-D :-D    When I couldn't watch her she went in her crate (she wouldn't 'go' in there ;) ) and in the crate at night too.

I also always put her straight outside after a meal.  

This has worked really well and she was finally dry very quickly, but I do think it's a combination of them getting the idea and of their muscle control maturing so that they can hold on ;) and that manily comes with age.

These days I let her out into the garden and check she's 'been' with a paper pad, then she gets her ham :-D  This is working with her granny too who has always refused to wee in the rain   but the ham is magic!

Pup has just asked to go out !  this is getting to be a regular occurance now :-D

one thing we did was to transfer pups wee smell from inside to outside. we did this by using a puppy pad and pressed it onto wee that had been done indoors and then took it outside and secured it. this helped to transfer the 'i've been there so i'll do it again' thought. (garden looked a sight for a while though!)
as soon as our pup received praise for outside wee he started to rip up puppy pads indoors (bit like potty training a toddler!) so we realised that he wanted to be clean. although we went through accidents everywhere at first i used to clean them up without looking or saying anything at our pup.
my midnight visits walking him up and down the garden constantly saying 'wee wees' and 'stinkies' in a high voice have been noted by my neighbours!
do you have specific words that are assosciated with 'going'? we started saying them immediately our pup began to squat which made the word/action recognition easier for all.
it will happen but try not to get too upset as pups can pick up on the slightest negative feeling.

I am not at all sure that a pup of 15 weeks has any control over it's bladder, when it wants to go, it will and if it does not then it wont. We just have to keep up the training until they are able to control themselves.

She won't wee outside of your property as the 'big dogs' scents are all over and its too overwhelming for a puppy to DREAM of weeing near a big dogs area. Which is all of the outside world. Secure a fenced area right out side your own door.

She is weeing where she feels safe, bless her, she is absolutely bursting to go, and if you are not careful she will start to hide from you and pee behind places to hide from you, but its the only place she feels safe as she is so young. And she has to go to the toilet. She just cant win right now. She cannot go outside and pee cos she's a baby in a big world, and she has no area to go outside her own property, so you have to make one....quick!!!

You needs a reasonably sized fenced in area outside your door, and please do not admonish her, she is trying to stay safe in the dog world. She is not confident enough to wee outside yet. Now you know why a well fenced garden is so very important in owning a puppy, which is why it is an important part of homechecking.

They do sell 26 foot leads, they are a pain, but it could help you to help her...they are only about 9.99.