Well all I can say is that I am truly saddened by my short foray into the world of dog showing.
I decided to let my boy go as I had just taken on too much.
It was agreed that his breeder would buy him back.
Nearly a week passed and I received an e-mail advising me that they no longer wanted him back as they feared that his mother may have a cataract. I was contacted by someone who knew of a pet home who would be interested in him. This young lad came to my home and all seemed well, although his companion seemed insistent on the paperwork (I was selling him as a pet with no papers and had no intentions of letting the paperwork go as his breeder had not endorsed him).
I have been trying to contact my boy's new owner, via e-mail, text and phone with no reply. So a bit worried I contacted the kennels where he told me that he worked part time, unfortunately they had never heard of him so I started to recant the whole story, becoming more concerned about where my pup had gone. The owner of the kennel suggested that it could be another David (different surname) who worked there. I put it all together and checked out the new surname and yes, I have been duped, he is not a novice dog owner looking for a pet but a dog breeder and handler and friends with my boy's breeder.
What I don't understand is all the underhand business....................they were buying him back, so why all of this? Does their breeding mean so little to them that to save £200 they would go to these lengths, he was sold as show quality three months before but of course with no papers, is "lost" to the breed? The next day I received an e-mail from his breeder saying that his mother did not have a cataract after all and could they buy him.

Yes, I will hold my hands up that I should never have bought him in the first place and should have gone straight back to them when I decided to rehome but breeders have a responsibility in all of this too. If they choose not to reply to e-mails from puppy buyers, incorrectly register pups (he was registered as a bitch for the first five months of his life), do not send paperwork for months, they cannot complain when faith is lost in them.

People in the show world may be large fish in very small ponds but out here in the real world, treating people with such disdain is not acceptable.

You say "What's wrong with the show world?" then mention ONE breeder? You might as well say "What's wrong with puppy buyers buying a puppy and then not keeping it?" and mention yourself. There will ALWAYS be bad apples in every walk of life -doesn't mean they are ALL the same. It is NOT your average GOOD breeder that will refuse to take a dog back or act like this in any way at all. You've mentioned several things that shows it's not a good breeder. The pup was not endorsed! The mother may have cataracts -so she wasn't eye tested annually then? Your pup was registered as the wrong sex?  And they won't have the pup back. It's a bad breeder, so please don't tar us all with the same brush........ You've had an unfortunate experience and for that I am sorry, but that's all it is. It's NOT "the show world".

I am feeling very strongly about this as you can imagine and do not wish to tar everyone with the same brush and for that I apologise.
Unfortunately, it is three breeder/exhibitors, my pup's breeder, the person who called me with the recommendation and the person who came to my home, I accept that I have been very unlucky.
Apologies again.

I endorse everything that Marianne has said.. but would also like to add..

You yourself obviously did not check your puppy purchaser out before handing him over... a mistake was made.. but why blame everyone else

You chose the breeder, you chose to let your pup go.. you handed him over without doing any of your own background checks..  

Sorry but I don't see what this has to do with showing. I show my dog but don't breed them. Personally, if I took on a pup then changed my mind I would give it back to the breeder with my apologies. It does sound like you were unlucky to buy a pup from someone less caring than many but selling a pup without endorsements to an average pet owner doesn't put them in a responsible breeder category to me. (obviously pups can be sold by genuine caring breeders without endorsements in special cases to friends or someone they know within the breed)

Please think about statements like "all show people are lousy and uncaring" if you're venting your anger about one person.

I realise it's too late now but why didn't you do all the digging around before letting him go? Also how could he be sold as "show quality" with no paperwork enabling him to be shown? Was he at any point shown to prove this show quality?

If I had to return my dog to his breeder I'd just be greatfull she'd help me rehome him,I wouldn't expect her to buy him back.It doesn't sound like a good situation for the dog at either end and I'm not sure I understand where showing comes in to any of this?

all show people are lousy and uncaring

I never said that, I have apologised for my title, I am upset.

I believed the person who passed his details to me, I believed the lad who came to my home, I have never asked for id from people, yes I have been trusting and stupid, I accept that.

I should have made that sentence clearer - I meant off the forum, when you're talking to friends, co-workers, etc. There's a lot of bad publicity out there right now on purebred dogs already. Off the cuff remarks about 'show people' will just fuel the flames and from your posts, it's not showing or purebreeds you are angry with.

Personally, if I took on a pup then changed my mind I would give it back to the breeder with my apologies.

I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree. We were happy to buy a puppy we bred back, and although they accepted less than she was 'worth' we would have paid whatever it took. On the other hand, when we got our first girl and her breeder said we must return her if we couldn't keep her at any time in her life,  I assumed we would return her and expect nothing back as she would be doing us a favour. (not that we ever intended to take her back!)

I am new to showing and pretty new to dogs in the scheme of thinsg too, I guess and I admit I get less naive by the day, but there really are as many, if not more, good than bad out there in the show world. And if there weren't, I'd be even more determined to stick around.

I cant really add anymore than what the other posters are saying because i completely agree with them.

If you buy a puppy from a irresponsible breeder, then you are JUST as irresponsible as them.. nevermind the fact that you are taking the puppy back too.

I just feel sorry for the puppy in all of this... he seems to have never experienced someone with their head screwed on.. poor thing

I am not going to name the breeder here but I thought buying from the top exhibitor in the breed I was choosing well.
This has been my experience...............I can only comment on what has happened to me.

I too feel sorry for the pup, passed on with what appears to be little thought.

Was the issue here that you expected the full puppy purchase price for the pup when returning it, and of course after a couple of months a pup would not be worth that price, in fact probably about half.

Maybe for this reason a ringer was sent in to purchase the pup, to ensure they got it back????

> I am not going to name the breeder here but I thought buying from the top exhibitor in the breed I was choosing well.
> This has been my experience...............I can only comment on what has happened to me.

I wouldn't take winning shows to  automaticly mean someone is  a responsible breeder,there's far more to it than that.Did the breeder claim to be the "top exhibitor" ? What does that mean exactly? I'm not trying to pick your words apart,just trying to understand why you assumed buying from her/him was the right thing to do.

The pup left me to someone who I was told (via another breeder) was looking for a pet, he had been on her waiting list and she did not have a pup for him. (as she had just had a bitch with a section and "lost" pups this made sense).
I spoke to him at length about the breed and the pup before he came to visit. He came to my house with his aunt and friend and was here for some considerable time offering the pup a good life.
Who was I not to believe, the person who passed on the details (breeder of some note) or him, his friend and his "aunt" who came to view and collect the pup?
I was naive and trusting in all of this but I am not the villain of the piece!

As I've said on many occasions ( but I feel it warrants repeating) there are three sides to any story....1 side....... the other side......  and .........then the truth!!!

The pup was being bought back at full price by the breeder as he was not sold as an 8 week old pup but as a 5 month old with show potential. This had already been agreed and at no time was I told that there was a problem with this.

and in the middle of all this tooing and froing .....I wonder about the poor pup!!!

quote from previous post...
His breeders have been great but don't want to overwhelm them with all of my questions!
Eavie

This pup is over 8 months old.. I though he was born begining of June.. so this is another pup you have bought ?

So who has the pup now and what is the problem with them?

Hi Eavie69,

Sorry to hear what you've been through, whatever the rights and wrongs.

Had you had dogs before and just not shown, or was this your first dog? When you say you'd taken on too much, do you mean the showing side, or the coping with a dog day-to-day?

How long did you have the pup? - it must have been heartbreaking to give him back. 

I am sorry this happened to you, it must all be very distressing for you. It's a hard enough making the decision to give up your dog without all this happening, and if you couldn't cope it's best to admit it and try and sort something out. There are untrustworthy people in every walk of life. I too don't understand all this underhandedness either.

> People in the show world may be large fish in very small ponds but out here in the real world, treating people with such disdain is not acceptable.

I have come across people like this too, but there are also some nice people out there.

I do not know who has the pup, I have phoned/mailed sent texts, called the workplace of the person who came to my home repeatedly, I feel so drained by the whole thing.
The pup was going back to the breeder, I did not move the goalposts, to be honest, I am no longer sure who to believe which is not a position that I feel comfortable with.
Thank you Liz_R, the whole episode has just been so unnecessary.

AS has been said, there are 2 sides to this story!  The other side bears little resemblance to the OP's story.  In fact, no contact was made to the breeder about the pup being for sale until it was pointed out to them that he was listed on an internet puppy sale site, with differing prices for  without papers or with un endorsed!    Hardly the responsible, caring owner being portrayed by the OP.  As the pup had been sold with a very restrictive breeding contract, and as the breeders care very deeply about there lines AND their dogs, the immediately attempted to contact the OP, who ignored all modes of communication.  Eventually they managed to get her to answer the phone by calling from a different number, she was unhelpful to the point of being obsturctive, and stated that she had contacted the KC and been told that as he was unendorsed she could do what she like with him.  It was then reported back to the breeders that she had told a mutual aquaintance that she hated the puppy! The pup was still advertised for sale, so in desperation the breeders contacted friends in the area of the new owners, and arranged for the pup to be bought and returned to them.  He is now safely ensconced back at his birthplace, but is now extremely head-shy, which he was not when he left on this extremely trying stage of his young life.  Whilst posting on another site about parting wiht the pup the OP was asked if the breeders had been contact and the question was ignored.

OF course the breeders deeply regret selling to this person, and being trusting enough to let a lovley puppy be exposed to this behaviour.  IT is a salutory lesson to all breeders never to forget to endorse pups if you want to maintain any control.  I will post a copy of the contract the OP was happy to sign shortly.

Not quite true Gwen, I have all e-mail correspondence and the full story, You were not party to the full story either!
I have now come to realise that some people can do no wrong, their persona gives them carte blanche to act in any way they see fit!

I have two phones, my mobile and my home phone, I didn't answer my phone for three hours due to being ill and I was accused of being uncooperative and threatened...........I have a digital recording of the call.........have you?

Please contact my ringcraft if you think that he was head shy, I am assuming that head shy pups, will not stand happily to be clipped, will not allow people to go over them or check their mouths??

Remember that their are two sides to every story as has been pointed out!!!

When he came to me at five months, he didn't even have a name!

Contract for the puppy, signed by the OP, I have ommitted the headings with address and phone number details. The contract runs as follows"

AK fully understand that the above dog is sold purely as a pet and potential show dog but NOT as a stud dog.  (The breeders) will be allowed to breed to the above dog foc and will retain stud rights of the above dog.  That means that any sue fo the dog at stud will be approved by (the breeders) and they will receive the price of the stud.  Should AK want to breed him to one of her bitches that will be acceptable providing certain conditions are fulfilled.  Finally should A not be able to keep  him he must be returned to (his breeders).

The OP was happy to purchase him under these terms, but not to adhere to them when she dedcided not to keep him.  Perhaps she felt embarrassed at wanting to part with him?  Whatever the reasons, to then launch this completely unwarranted internet attack upon his breeders' is appalling.

But Gwen they had already agreed to buy him back but pulled out when they thought that his dam had a cataract??

There was already an agreement for him to go back? So why did they feel the need to pull out and get someone else to buy him??

And he was going back until JL mailed me to say that they thought his dam had a cataract and no longer wished to proceed but clearly they did want him back, so why all the underhand business?

Andrea, as far as I can tell you are trying to justify your behaviour.  Why you bought the pup I can't think, on another site you  have posted that you have 2 other spaniels and 3 Autistic children,  shortly after buying him you were contacting other breeders wanting another pup too, and almost committed to at least one, backing out at the last minute.  With the weight of responsibility which must lie on you at home with your family I cannot understand how you could ever think that showing was an option, and that you were seriously contemplating having 2 pups speaks volumes!  Reading between the lines, you seem miffed that you did not get the full price you paid back for the pup, and so have decided on a bit of character assasination as revenge?

could I make a suggestion at this point.  You need to private message this.  I don't think it's appropriate to be posted on a public any longer - having studied law you are both coming very close to libellous accusations in typing on this forum which could land you in trouble if you wanted to take this any further.

Yes Gwen, I have three boys on the autistic spectrum, one at the classic end, with the two others  probably best described as having aspergers. Two of them are severely dyslexic, one also has Tourettes syndrome.

My life is hard and not necessarily what I would have wished it to be, I wanted this to work but in my life I can't
always have what I want!

I didn't post all this here because, I did not want the sympathy vote. I do not post my name on this forum, did not post the breeders, please remove my name!

Surely the other side of the coin is that after agreeing to buy the puppy back the breeder decided not to pay the full amount and went to these underhand measures? So who does the money mean more to?

so after they had sent their "stooge" to buy him..................why did they e-mail me to offer to buy him as his dam had no cataract? What really is the truth?