Just wondering on your opinions of something a very well known breeder/exhibitor said to me at a recent show. I'm not planning on any having any litters, but it gave me something to think about if I did.

The overview was - "Forget the pedigrees, firstly analyse every bit of your bitch, pull her to bits, the good ones and the ones you want to improve, THEN choose a dog that you think will complement her, and improve on what you have." The impression I got was to forget the pedigrees, just use something that will better what you have, with the complement of the pedigree coming second to the dog you eventually use.

I know breeding is dusted with luck as well as trying to choose the male you believe will compliment your bitch and improve on what you have. But on the other hand alot of people seem to only look at certain dogs first because of the lines behind them, or, dare I say, because of the amount of red in the sires pedigree.

So when choosing a stud dog, do you

A- look at the dog first, and look at pedigree after

or

B- look at dogs with certain lines first, then decide if they are suitable?

I would say in general the advice was right in so much as once you have a dog that compliments your bitch then having a pedigree that also compliments (strong in the areas you want to improve and doesn't have the faults you want to avoid) then you are increasing your chances of getting desirable results.

If on the other hand the pedigree is ignored the chances of getting what you want in the pups is more a case of luck, and may not happen at all if there are faults common to both sides.

So yes first the dog has to compliment and then the pedigree.

Normally I first look at the dog, too, then the pedigree. Mainly to see if there might be something 'nasty' lurking in the background ;-)

This time round, however, I have had to bring in a bitch bred by someone else. She was ordered a year before the mating took place as the parents were what I wanted in order to match my male. I had the choice of 3 bitches and chose the one I thought would be most suited to my needs (actually chosen at 3 days old and never changed my mind :-) ). In this case I had to look at the pedigree first and wait to see if the bitch came up to my standards. There are one or two things I would like to improve, but that's why we breed, isn't it? To improve. :-D

I would agree with the above re selecting a pup to bring in to complement ones lines, then one is looking at the parents and ancestors having what you want and hoping the pup measures up to the pedigree.

This is usually the only way to get what you want if importing say, as a top class adult is rarely available for sale.

I am looking at studs at the mo for hopefully a mating next year, and have been doing so for a while. I agree with the above comments looking at the actual dog first and the lines involved in that dog, and research research research. I think i have narrowed it down to three or four, but it is just so hard to finally fix on one, as there are so many factors involved in final choice. And with a relativley small gene pool as in my breed things become even more difficult as I do not want to end up using the flavour of the month, as it would be better for the breed (IMO) to have a diversity of genetic lineage to bring back in for the future. Although depending on what's thrown this litter would consider a line mating at a future time.

Yep, small UK gene pool so I am always trying to second guess what will be around to breed to in the future so as not to end up bred into a corner with no choices in the next generation.

Agree with the others - the dog must complement the bitch and especially be 'right' in the areas needed to improve on the bitch, with nothing bad to bring in ;)  and the pedigree has to back this up or there could be nothing worth keeping in the litter.   I also look at the dogs in the pedigree and enquire about their health and temperament, both general health and breed specific questions.  I look for a long, healthy life with few vets visits/ilnesses, I feel that is as important as correct conformation.

Regarding Flavour of The Month or Top Breed Winners I would be more inclined to consider the FATHER of the Top Breed Winner (unless he's flavour of the month/popular) ;)  he's already been proven to throw something good and you can usually see how his other litters are developing.  The Top Breed Winner may throw good pups but equally may never throw anything of note ;)    I wouldn't really want to use a Popular Dog/Flavour of the month, there is usually another good dog available who for many reasons hasn't been shown as widely or been as successful, but may be equally as good for passing on good attributes ;)

The gene pool in our breed isn't very large and it could be easy to make it too small, especially as we are trying to breed away from a genetic problem and are very selective about which dogs are bred from.

Jsut a quick thought here, to clarify what is meant by "look at the pedigree" - what is being discussed here is looking at the pedigree and knowing the dogs behind it (as the above posters have made clear, I think).  That is looking at the ancestors of the dog in quesiton, not just looking at thenames on a bit of papers, which is all a whole lot of people I have met do - jsut counting Chs is not at all relevant! ;)

I actually like to look at a stud dogs offspring as this will determine if the dog is a prepotent stud.

Many top quality individuals can't seem to reproduce themselves no matter what their pedigree looks like.
I have seen over the years 2 excellent boxer males, both big winners, both phenotypically true to their breeding ......yet one produced 'clones' of himself no matter what he was put to and the other was mated to many of the finest bitches in the country and nothing of merit was ever produced.

Of course it helps if the offspring are from bitches of similar lines to your own.

In my breed unfortunately we have little choice -pedigree has to come first, as virtually all dogs are closely related, and many, many far TOO closely related to be used, so looks come a clear second.

Think an "experienced" breeder probably knows the pedigree of every dog she/he looks at and would therefore subconsciously only be studying in detail those dogs that would be genetically suitable anyway.

Bit of a coward here as i always ask my breeder what will compliment my bitches. For someone just starting out this is a good option, and he likes to go into great detail about what is good about a particular stud and what may improve the bitch I want to mate.  He has never been wrong, for me anyway, and is always willing to share his knowledge.  First port of call when you need advice and are not sure how to choose.  As I am relatively new to the breed I am now showing I am reaping the rewards of good advice :)