I have a three year old bitch that has had two litters, she has always come in season every six to seven months but she is six weeks late at the moment. has anybody known a bitch miss a season for no reason.

[deleted]

I am sorry to sound rude, but a three year old having two litters is
terrible. By that I mean you must of mated her young.
But to the seasons they can vary. If a bitch gets stressed for
eg. They can go over.
I would not be in a hurry to mate your bitch again. Give the poor
girl a break!
Nutkin

Hi Nutkin. Yes you did sound rude and for your information my bitch is 4 years old next month. She is a very welcome addition to the family and is very fit and well. The two litters she has had have only been small 1 litter of 5 and the last was 4. You should'nt jump to conclusions because no one has mentioned mating her, I was asking about seasons. She would only be mated if she was in perfect condition.
spanner

Has your bitch had any upset recently? Have you moved house or something similar? As has been mentioned stress can effect the cycle in a bitch in much the way it can in a human female.

If it was my dog I'd take her to the vets to get her scanned, just in case she could be pg and chat to the vet about what's happened.

It's probably nothing and she's fine, but it's best to be on the safe side :)

Fiona
x x x

PS - Expect her to come into season whilst you're at the vets, us girls like to be awkward :D :D :D

hi Fiona she has been full of energy and she is happy she is not showing any signs of being unwell at all.she is never willing to mate, so there is no way she could have got caught and she has always been on time . Thanks any way.

It sounds as if she's just being a typical girl then - we like to keep people guessing :D :D :D :D :D

Fiona
x x x

You can't blame Nutkin for jumping to conclusions Spanner - the title of your post is "breeding" :-)

Jane

Hi jane the reason I put breeding was so i would get advice from other breeders.

Hi Spanner I am so glad I did not reply before now .
I am afraid I would have jumped to the same conclusions as Nutkin. :)
It is the written word again , so it is important to explain things a bit better when posting then none of us will be in doubt as to your question.
Nutkin has a good heart and loves the dogs . she just worries . some posters have asked questions to that effect and expected us to agree with them it is ok to breed from a bitch untill she drops.
Seasons in dogs are not always reliable I have a bully bitch that has not come in for 18 months now, and another that had a six month season has not had one since last september.
If the bitch is happy in herself then I would not worry . However a swab will put your mind at rest .
Oh by the way Spanner just because a bitch does not readily accept a dog when mated does not mean she wont change her mind next time round.
I once had a collie bitch who never came in season and never liked a dog near her.
So you can imagine my surprise one day to hear a bit of noise in the garden and go out and see my 8 yr old bitch in a tie with my collie dog , result one puppy .
I had to get permission from the kennel club to register him as she was over the age for breeding .
This was a bitch that had been diagnosed barren .
I really would not be surprised if your girl was in pup if she was in the way of a dog mating her.
However if a dog could not have got at her then I am sure all is well

Best Wishes
Mari

Mari,
So did you rename your bitch, Sarah after Abraham's wife???? :D :D :D She really decided to be a 'mommy' late in life :) Thanks for telling that tale, I found it very 'interesting' :)

Spanner,
What breed of bitch do you have? Just curious to know, hope you don't mind :)

toodles

Welcome to the forum Spanner :-)

>>for your information my bitch is 4 years old next month.

So correct me if I am wrong, but she has still had two litters well before she was 4 years old then?

yes Leigh she has had two litters small litters she is well looked after she is my baby are you saying this is wrong.she lives in the house and is very much part of the family. Which is more than i can say for a lot of breeders

I was told off for wanting one litter from my bitch who is just 5 yrs old. I wdn't start breeding from her until she was 3 anyway so this wd. have been only her second litter if she had of had proper seasons every time and noone wd. have batted an eyelid then. My vet, her orig. breeder and many others were so pleased that we had managed it at long last. All of my poms live until they are at least 14 so surely she's not even middle aged yet. We've only ever seen 2 seasons but I'm sure that she must have had colourless ones before.

I do think as others say, it is hard when you are putting things in writing and one slightly incorrect phrase can put your message totally different from what you wanted to say. I must admit that I wdn't have a third litter at the age of 4, but as you said you were not asking it for this reason.

If we all had the same feelings this site wouldn't be so brilliant!!!

Hi briarlow you are wright I do not want a litter a the moment I was living in hope that she would miss a season to make life a little easier as all five of my dogs live in the house,I have not known this to happen once they are having regular seasons.see ya!!!

Guest I would take her to the vet for a check over and if there is a chance she has been mated get her scanned.

I know a very good breeder Ithat always keeps a reseve fund from her very occasionally puppy sales to help with any cost for the bitch that she has bred from.

Pam

Perhaps a neighbour also heard you say that you had had two litters from a three year old bitch and decided to give her a little holiday at the vet's <g>

Christine

Hiya,
I did say that I hoped it did not sound rude what I said.
It was under the heading of breeder. Its very hard to
convey just what we mean by writing down.
I thought you wrote 3 not 4 years old.
Thanks for the other comments to back me up Jane S
and Mari.
Under this heading I thought your were expecting to breed
from your bitch.
Mellow about Spanner:)
Nutkin

Spanner what breed is your dog? The reason I ask is that if she was a small dog, eg a terrier, it would not be so bad if you had first bred from her at about a year old as these kind of dogs are fully mature by then, but if you had a big dog, like a GSD, they are still pups at a year old and it would be very wrong to breed them at that age. Also, no bitch should be bred from more than once a year, no matter how fit they are, I appreciate that you love your dog and she is your baby, but breeding is a serious matter, and there are some real monsters out there who use dogs like machines ( not saying you are one of them ) and if you take offence at what I am saying I really don't think you should be breeding at all.

Hi bear she is a lab she was 20 months when she had her first litter and 36 months when she had her second total pups 9. I take breeding very seriously. see ya

You asked me if I thought you were wrong to breed two litters from your bitch before she was 4 years old. Yes, in my opinion I think you were wrong to breed from a bitch that was under two years of age, small litter or not. Is 5 puppies considered to be a small litter in lab circles? As a serious breeder, I take it your bitch had all the recommended health checks: hips/eyes (and do they check elbows in Labs too?) before she had her first litter?

I must say I agree Leigh. Our breed clubs code of ethics recomends that no bitch should whelp before 2 years of age, and there should be a minimum of a year between litters, and no more than 4 litters in a lifetime, and that a first litter should be whelped before 5! My breeds bitches are around 20kg as adults and full height around 8 to 10 months old!

Now if this bitch had a litter at two and then 3 years old not so bad, though I would have thought a Lab should be closer to 3 before a first litter, being half as big again as my breed.

The youngest I have had a bitch whelp was two weeks after her second birthday, as this bitch was terrible at not eating (appetite usually improves with motherhood), she had and reared 9 pups, but has not had a litter since (2 1/2 years) and will only have her second litter (I hope) next summer, when she will be 5 1/2!

I have had a bitch have a litter in succeeding years (14 motnths apart) but then had a break of 3 years before her third and last.

Hi leigh you think it was wrong well fair enough thats your opinion ,we are have them, and yes i have done all the checks recommened and more. A litter of 7 or 8 would be the normal size. As i have already said i take it seriously.But i do not understand what you keep going on about as i have already said, i did not ask about season with the intention of breeding her, as i explained earlier. I think its a case of lets pick on the new guy.Well thats fine i can take it. kind regards spanner.

You're not being picked on for being "the new guy". So don't even worry about that. :rolleyes: Nothing personal at all, except the subject of breeding and canines is very controversial, regardless of the locale. You can easily determine this from just reading some of the past postings on here. Do a search on "Breeding" "Puppies" "Stud" or related topics. You'll see what I mean. :)

There are some very firm, sound, educated, and experienced opinions on this board in regards to recommended breeding ages and amounts of litters a bitch should have, especially if the owner really "cares" about their pet. I have learned quite a lot in the 5 or so months I've been on board (heh heh, pun intended, guys ;))

I didn't have any interest in breeding, still don't. But I have gotten a firm sense from those here online that just because a bitch has her first, second, or even third 'season', it does not mean that she should be bred. Some human girls are now starting their periods at age 10-11, it's basically the same level of physical maturity that a six month puppy has--especially a larger breed. We consider teenage pregnancy a bad thing, why not a teenage dog???? What's the difference?

Why is there such a rush to breed so young anyway? Making money? Wanting to have a replacement pup? Recoup an "investment"? Improve the breed with proven temperament and soundness? The last is the most important and can easily wait on maturity.
jmho, take it as you will.
toodles

I don't think 20 months is too young for a first litter, I have heard it should be on a bitches third season, which I assume it was in the case of Spanner's bitch?
I mean, is there really a HUGE difference between 20 and 24 months?
Maybe we should give Spanner a break now! She obviously loves her dog and has not done wrong by her.

Hi bear thanks for your kind words no dought you will of thrown a spanner haha! in the works now. I can see this topic will go on some time yet. Thanks for your support.spanner.

This is too young for a breed as large as a Labrador! Most folk agree that two is a good minimum age, and this is written into many breeds codes of ethics. If 20 months is OK, why not 16 months?

The bitch was mated at 18 months old, why the hurry? Six moths later she would have whelped at 26 months. Thre are 6 years available to breed if you take a starting age of 2 (and 6 litters from a bitch is the most allowed, and i would hope most people wouldn't have that many litters unless it is a breed that has ones and twos!). If it was the time of year that suited, waiting until the next year would only have made the bitch 2 years and 8 months old!

>>I think its a case of lets pick on the new guy

Don't be daft Spanner, you asked for my opinion and I gave it. Just because it didn't agree with your own does not mean I (or anyone else) was *picking* on you :-) We just like to get a feel for the people who post on the forum. Unfortunately, that is human nature don't you think? ;-)

Spanner, no one is picking on you because you are new rather because of what you have written, you ask about a bitch being late with a season and then go on to tell you you have done your homework as regards to bitches and breeding. Why did you ask in the first place if you have it all in hand. Just sit back and wait until you can help one of us with your experiance. Ja:)kie

Hi Spanner , can I ask if you show your dogs or are they worked.

I just wondered as I like to know the reason why people have bred their dogs.

Pam

Hi jackie I was asking for other peoples advice out of intrest to learn on other peoples experiances because no one knows it all, it dose not matter how much you know everybody can learn more. spanner

Could not agree nore or even more, dam fingers are at it again. Ja:)kie

Hello there spanner,

Was just being nosey on this link and would like to reassure you that if the other guys on the forum appear to jump at you, it's because they all care so much about their dogs.

When I joined recently, I was forced to ask myself some questions about the type of dog I was interested in adopting. And although it feels weird to defend yourself in such a way, I found it incredibly useful. I followed advice that came along with some probing enquiries and changed my mind.

Everyone does have their own views on the board, but that's what makes it stimulating!

Can't answer your original question, I'm afraid, though!

Julie x

Thanks juliet. spanner.

Hiya Spanner,
As everyone has said before me, no one was picking
on the new guy.
I suppose because in my breed which is Weimaraners
we do not breed before the age of two years of age.
In fact if anyone does this, they are very much frowned
upon. Most people prefer they are three.
I had a lady call me this evening wanting to use our stud
dog (Yes he is hip scored). Her bitch is not two until
October and I said that I would not let her use our dog
until she is two. Now I most probably have lost a stud
fee, but we try to uphold a principal as in our breed they
do not mature enough before two years of age to have
a litter.
I know that in some breeds for eg, the toy breeds, that some
people breed after one years of age as they say they mature
quicker. Now I am not experienced in small breeds so I
cant say either way.
I agree with you that no one knows everything, and we all
have room to learn. I am sure even the most experienced
breeder would agree with that.
Nutkin

Hi nutkin I also had someone wanting to use my stud two weeks ago and i said no ,i told her we would speak again when her bitch had been hip scored. spanner.

Spanner, wonder if your ambition is to be 'Spanner in the Works'?!!

I think all of us here with medium-large size dogs would never consider mating a bitch under 2.5 years old , and only after all relevant hip/elbow/eyes/heart checks were clear. You can, however, (I think) make a case out for mating smaller breeds earlier, but personally have never quite seen the logic of it.

Have you kept stock for yourself out of these litters?

It would be nice if you kept us all posted - don't be scared off, as we're only here to help

Jo and the Casblaidd Flatcoats

Hi jo flatcoat we have been through all this I dont know how many times.Hips /elbow/eyes/etc yes all done,have you been sleeping? you will have to take it up with bear as well now because i have got some support at last! you will have to bear with me as to smiley faces etc as i have only just started to use a p/c and have not got to grip with it yet.spanner.

Spanner,

I asked earlier about how you measure your dgos quality , do you show them? Work them?

How do you know how good they are?

This is just a general question that most breeders on here have answered many times.

Pam :-)

Hi pam missed your earlier question,we work them each puppy is bred for health,intelligence,temperament and working ability.most of our dogs compete in obedience and hunting trials. I never have to advertise my pups for sale as i always have a waiting list, people wanting another pup have always come back to us.I would say that speaks for itself wouldent you.Anyway must get packing as we are off to Ireland to do some hunting and fishing etc.spanner

Spanner thanks you have 100%.

I am in my opinion against people breeding dogs unless they are tested and measured properly against either showing or working. I am pleased that people are happy with your puppies.

Everyone on here as you will have clicked always has the dog and future dogs best interests at heart 100%.

Have a nice trip .

Pam :-) and her 2 Westies