Anybody seen this??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7659353.stm

Just heard the story on radio 1, the owner has been charged & bailed! Sounds horrific..

Blooming heck!!! What a strange vicious dog!! Feel sorry for it in a way though, dont feel sorry for the human though, she should get what she deserves, a vicious dog like that just let loose!! Jesus that could of been even worse if it hadnt been shot! (Thats the bit why i feel sorry for it, just dont like harm! lol)

Hope the baby was ok, it doesnt say does it...

a dog named 'asbo' - says it all to me really :-(

That sounds terrifying :(
Seriously hope that baby is OK.

I have to say I don't know much about the breed but I was very supprised about just how vicious it was.

I know any dog can be dangerous but to behave like this it has either got to have something medically/genetically wrong with it or else it's treatment at home leaves a lot to be desired.

Those people were incredibly brave and lucky to be alive.

> I don't know much about the breed

I am not at all sure what breed it is.  Perhaps a cross breed.

> I am not at all sure what breed it is

One site said it was a Bull Terrier

It certainly does not look like a bull terrier.

It looks like a crossbreed to me.

Arh but which bull terrier, english, stafford, american pit, Although I do tend to agree its looks alot like a cross breed.

> It certainly does not look like a bull terrier

Gosh you're right, didn't look at the picture. 

Only 10 months old, should still be a puppy at this age and it has attacked before.  Something just not right.

Something just not right = the people who own the dog and are meant to be responsible for it's behaviour, training and well being. Poor pup, at least now he doesn't have to live in confusion and mistreatment any longer.

Just read on one report that the owner is 12 years old. Can you believe it.

The link Isabel put up said the owner of the dog was a 12 year old:
"Today Mrs Oduro, whose son knows the 12-year-old owner of the dog that attacked him, said: 'This should never have happened. The dog was obviously dangerous after what it did to my son."
This poor 10 month old pup was owned by a 12 year old, had attacked a 14 year old child previously, the police gave the owners the chance to controll the dog and they allowed it to escape and go on this awfull rampage - people like this should NEVER be allowed to have another dog.
I really hope the parents of the child that owned the dog are stamped on by the courts. This was completely avoidable, the owners were aware the dog was capeable of this.
I hope everybody that was bitten makes a full recovery, how frightening that must have been and well done to the people who risked thier safety to try to stop the dog.
What a horrible thing to happen :(

It is not possible for a 12 year old to own a dog.

>the police gave the owners the chance to controll the dog and they allowed it to escape and go on this awfull rampage

This is how it is being reported but we don't know this was exactly the case.  Perhaps the police had insufficient evidence to do anymore than warn or advise at that point.

> Perhaps the police had insufficient evidence to do anymore than warn or advise at that point.

Good point. I wasn't having a go at the police though, I am dumbfounded that knowing thier dog had allready attacked a child the owners allowed it to escape, the word 'responsibilty' is obviously not one they are familiar with :(

>It is not possible for a 12 year old to own a dog.

Why not? A puppy could be registered in the name of a newborn baby, although the parents of that baby would be considered to be responsible for it. The person buying the dog must be over 16 years, but that person could then legally give the dog to a younger person.

>although the parents of that baby would be considered to be responsible for it.

That's what I mean.  I don't think even by 12 a child could or should be responsible for an animal.  Even if they can perfectly manage to look after it's needs it would still be the parents responsibility to ensure that the child was competent and be responsible for the welfare of the animal and the rights of the public to remain safe from it.  That how I feel.  I'm not sure quite how the law sees it but like you say they cannot buy a dog before 16 so that does seem to be recognised.

Looks like a pit bull cross to me which is what it's described as in some articles. I know that people argue against breed specific legislation but I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that I agree with it. The problem with pit bulls and dogs bred to fight no matter what pain they're in is that when you do get a bad one then it's very difficult to stop. Of course any breed can bite, but most breeds would run away if being beaten with sticks. My Mr Beastly for example is very keen on small animals, but will drop a rabbit at a raised voice.

Going off on a tangent slightly, but as a means to explain how people can end up with these dogs. On another forum I visit, a rescue based forum, there is a litter of Irish staff x pups. Now we all know that Irish Staff means pit bull, so the pups ad has been changed to say staffie x pups :-( In this way innocent people can find themselves with the wrong dog. Staffies have a wonderful reputation with children, I personally would not trust a pit bull cross with any.

Shocking and terrifying for all involved whether injured or witnessing events :(

The dog in the photo on looks like a cross of some sort (IMO it is similar to that of 'pit bull type') and is according to reports only 10 months old - still a pup despite size, strength or behaviour.  It's previous attack on a person was reported as having occurred in May - so all of 5 months or so at that age and regardless of breed a very young puppy - perhaps, if reports are true, this is why the police did not take the earlier reported attack further ...
All conjecture of course.

That some reports are referring to the dog as being a "Bull Terrier", to many this will naturally conjure up a picture in the mind of an EBT - a breed that could well do without unwarranted adverse publicity :(

Of greater importance right now of course is that please God everyone hurt will be OK, especially the baby - there seems little reported so far as to the extent of this poor little one's injuries.

> I know that people argue against breed specific legislation but I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that I agree with it.

I agree too. 

:::passes Isabel a tin hat too

I kind of think that I agree with some elements of breed specific legislation ... except, where does it stop? And would it ever be policed anyway?

If the reports of all these Pit Bulls and their crosses which already should not exist in the UK are true (and it's not just marketing to increase price), then what's to say that any further legislation would go to solving the problem?

M.

I personally would not trust a pit bull cross with any.

The thing is,the pit was once one of the most popular pets in the states for all the same reasons staffs are here now.A well bred pit would be bomb proof with humans as this quote explains..

The best fighters were celebrated and held up as heroes for their courage and fortitude during battle. At the same time, a very strong bite inhibition towards humans was encouraged through selective breeding so handlers could lean over into the fighting pits and pull their battling dogs apart without worrying about receiving a redirected bite. Partially because of these breeding efforts to which culled out "man biters", Pit Bulls became well known for their loving devotion and trustworthy nature with humans.

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/breed.cfm

Making this dog illegal has resulted in bad breeding by idiots,sold to idiots and crossed with anything "hard" looking.Who's to say the Staffy won't be next?

The item does not say if the child survived. Did I miss that? Does any one know?

I have never had fear of dogs but there is a definate group of people who are training their dogs in a definate way. I find it frightening.

> definate group of people who are training their dogs in a definate way.

I would say they are selectively breeding for disturbing characteristics - not sure how much "training" goes on.... certainly not for what normal people would want to train anyway!!

> A well bred pit would be bomb proof with humans as this quote explains..
>

I am sure there are some lovely ones.  They certainly seem to raise feeling of great devotion but the point made above is the dangerous potential these dogs have because when they are bad they are all but incontrollable and the damage they can do is considerably more than the average dog breed.  Perhaps, in the way that other dangerous species other than dogs are, they should not be considered as suitable as pets.

> Who's to say the Staffy won't be next

It is in my area? The fav is a staffie x pit bull all walked by  "chavs". The dogs run riot every where if you comment you are verbally abused!
Their attitude is " it's my right innit" ?? Sorry you have to live here to understand it is a very definate "class" emerging in our society they care for no one or anything but themselves all on the dole just taking from us all and giving nothing back.Any comment is met by verbal abuse. alah Vicki Pollard/Tate style !!
Thankfully I am more than capable of giving a good "gob" full back.

I totaly agree,these dogs are like having loaded weapons in the wrong hands.It's just very sad that a breed known for it's affection towards humans has been turned in to the latest devil dogs.Making something illegal though just makes it more apealing to certain "types" :(

The trouble with selecting the APBT as deserving of the DDA is that all bull breeds and all terrier breeds could so easily fall foul of the same law - after all they traditionally had the gameness and tenacity bred into them as well as being, as a minimum, *manageable* with humans (many indeed being fantastic with humans!).

Unfortunately the more powerful bull and terrier breeds are abused by thugs - should they (the breeds!) all be banned / neutered / muzzled and leashed at all times or should we not be encouraging the neutering and incarceration of the pond life that exploit these dogs?  (I know the one I'd opt for :-D )

> Making something illegal though just makes it more apealing to certain "types" :-(

I think the level of enforcement probably needs to reflect that.  On the other hand it's a great excuse to get round their house and you never know what else might be turned up :-)

> or should we not be encouraging the neutering and incarceration of the pond life that exploit these dogs?  (I know the one I'd opt for

Well said. I know which way I would vote.

> you never know what else might be turned up

Probably stuff with a high street value. ;-)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3159263/Dog-shot-dead-by-police-after-attacking-four-in-London.html

This link said it had bitten 4 people during its straying episode.

Edited to say see the other link says that too, just saw bit about baby, brain is not in gear today.

>> Well said. I know which way I would vote.

Same here.
Breed specific legislation is not imo the way to go. 

I'm afraid that I agree. Once you ban one breed they'll just move on to the next.

Sharpeis and Akitas are getting very popular round my way. More worrying are the mixtures appearing: a sharpei/pit cross being one. That's a mix I find very scary: all the wariness and guarding instincts of the Sharpei added to a fighting breed.

I understand that there are significant problems with thyroid related aggression in Akitas. I've recently seen quite a lot of uncastrated male Akitas and they don't look friendly or under control. You have to suppose that they are also going to be used on a Staffie or similar. Dogue de Bordeaux and Ridgeback to Staff/Pit crosses are also in vogue.

Heaven help us.

Reminds me of this

http://www.dogpeople.org/Perro%20De%20Presa%20Canario.JPG    Unfortunately many people who would buy a dog like this are not going to be the responsible type :( :( and the pup's name points to just that :(

Agree that breed specific legislation is not the way to go. 

Full prosecution of people in charge of a dog found to be out of control and dangerous and a possible charge of GBH or ABH occasioned by said dog (or similar)  would be more appropriate IMO

Funnily enough (or not), I'm seeing a Shar Pei revival around here at the moment. Hadn't seen one for years and now have seen a fair few pop up. Luckily all with sensible owners so far (particularly luckily as one male looks a bit nasty and is VERY solid indeed.)

M.

reply to bilbobaggins, my paper this am said 'baby, around 1 year old is 'in stable condition' '

> Once you ban one breed they'll just move on to the next.
>

Perhaps we need to be radical and ban a whole raft of breeds and anything like them. 
My problem with approaching it along the lines of dealing with irresponsible people, the deed not breed approach, is we need to wait until they commit an irresponsible act which might involve a baby being mauled.

This is slightly off topic but one i felt i had to put on here.
I have nothing against the breed at all which i speak about, in fact i actually really like the breed in general.
I was sat with my friend by the river(this time my dog was on his lead and tied to the bench, so no jumping into the water antics today).
I notice this young lad, must be no more than about 18yrs old. I see him walking his dog who is walking to heel and being much a gentleman of a dog. I notice that the dog is muzzled, great i think, at least they are doing something about a dog which has problems while out in the public.
This young lad then stops by us, only 2-3meters away. He then tries to point out my dog to his dog(i am keeping a close on eye on this as i'm thinking this doesn't look right) Anyway the dog refuses to look and from what it appears has had some form of training to 'leave' other dogs alone. This boy then moves his dog around so that he gets eye contact with my dog. Well his dog starts squaring up to my boy. His dog starts to growl. OMG i'm thinking, you better stay where you are or you'll get yourself arrested there and then by me and my friend.
He then moves away saying to his dog 'he would eat you alive'. My boy was laying on the ground watching, but never made any form of attempt to do anything with this dog. I'm not sure what my dog thought, but i was proud of him not reacting in any way and also of my friend who is the first person to jump onto someone doing something wrong.

I was shocked by this boys behaviour and right now i am thinking why didn't i say anything, well like many others i wasn't prepared to get myself into a situation unless i had to in order to protect my dog.
Why oh why would you try and incite and wind up your dog who obviously has aggression problems hence the muzzle??? Poor dog!!! If i had been your average person then the rap this breed have would of exhasberated(sp) many a persons thought on it.

> Perhaps we need to be radical and ban a whole raft of breeds and anything like them. 
>

What breeds did you have in mind? Considering how many pits and pit type crosses are around after having them banned for over a decade how on earth would this be practical?

While the BSL seemed a good idea in the start, how has this helped in any way? We do still have Pitbulls in the country, though you don't come across many purebred ones like in the States. I have seen a website in which some guy is crossing Staffy's with American Bulldogs to make them Pitty like.
The other breeds of dogs which come under the DDA, tbh i have never seen, nor am i aware that they were ever a popular breed of dog in this country(correct me if i am wrong here).
Where would you start? I really do think that with the way the KC is going now with trying to make all breeders have the relevant health checks on their dogs before mating otherwise they can't be registered will start to assist.
Soo many people who want a pet will be looking and waiting on this to see what happens.
If we continue to educate and perhaps have another programme go out about the good points of breeders once its all up and running(if it gets that far) then maybe we'll stop these BYB and PuppyMills.
This in turn may actually assist in breeding more even tempered dogs and then the owners can be better regulated(i hope).
Maybe in time future dog owners will have to take a test they pay for before any breeder will even consider allowing them to get a dog/pup...

All the if's and maybe's
I'm living in a dream world here, only can hope and pray something good comes out of the KC.

>What breeds did you have in mind?

I dare say the police could advise the Government which breeds are giving them cause for concern.

> Considering how many pits and pit type crosses are around after having them banned for over a decade how on earth would this be practical?

I seem to remember following the ban initially there were hardly any about which leads me to believe then when the police decide to put their weight behind something it is possible to make an impact.  I don't suppose it would be easy but the alternative of waiting to deal with the aftermath of incidents such as these is not too easy either I would imagine.

Er after the ban is when we started seeing the macho crosses :(
StaffyxBullmastiffs
RottiesxBullmastiffs
NeosxDogues
American Bulldogs
RottiesxDogues

etc

plenty of those about, as well as pitt lookalikes - there's a man in our town who has always had large staffs which look like pit bulls - and their colouring is definately NOT staffy colouring.  I always see him with at least one bitch who has recently had pups :(   No idea where he lives, or when/where I'll see him next, but I can't believe the police have never seen him.

> Er after the ban is when we started seeing the macho crosses :-(
> StaffyxBullmastiffs
> RottiesxBullmastiffs
> NeosxDogues
> American Bulldogs
> RottiesxDogues

These were not on the banned list and is why I wonder if we need to make it much broader.

> 'in stable condition'

Poor little mite.

A broader ban on certain breeds.. imo will just make all those breeds go 'underground' as it were.

Just like in the 90's, didn't work then, wouldn't work now.  imo of course.

Someone suggested perhaps a ban on a broader spectrum of breeds, so although you have said the police could advise, what would you advise?  It was, after all, your comment / opinion.
I'm interested in how or why you think that would work.
I'm in agreement with you in some respects re: deed not breed, it could be suggestive that one has to wait for a 'deed' to happen before any action is taken.

>What breeds did you have in mind?

I dare say the police could advise the Government which breeds are giving them cause for concern.

My own opinion is that there must be alternatives.  Compulsory microchipping, DNA testing? 
I don't believe we can target one or more specific breeds though.
People will just find ways around that.
As a very responsible owner of a bull breed I'd like a solution as much as anyone.