Hi there,

We have an eleven week old wheaten terrier called Parker, and for the last two weeks we have been attending puppy socialisation sessions locally. It isn't formal training, but more for allowing the puppies to interact in a controlled environment, and get used to being handled, have their teeth examined etc. Most of it is basic stuff that I could do at home, but I go as in my experience wheatens can be a real handful if not well socialised. The classes are broken into three or four play sessions with chat and handling in between. There are about eight puppies in the group.

One of the puppies is a four month old GSD, which in my opinion is much too old to be there. However, he has a great personality, is really gentle, and I think the lady who runs the group likes him to be there so the other puppies (mainly terriers and cockers) get to meet a big dog in a controlled space.

My problem is that for some reason the GSD has taken a real liking to Parker, but Parker doesn't want to know. I'm really happy that Parker shows this by ignoring the GSD and playing with the other puppies. However, the GSD won't accept this and just follows Parker around, so in each play session (of around ten minutes), the first few minutes are spent with Parker constantly moving away from this bigger pup, who keeps following him, until Parker eventually turns around and growls. Then the GSD is all happy and tries to play, which winds Parker up even more and they end up in a barking/wrestling match. I want it to be clear that the GSD is not "chasing" Parker as such, just following him around all the time.

I really do like the GSD, and I know that it's important for Parker to meet bigger dogs, and I'm completely happy with all the roughhousing that goes on between puppies. However, I'm really worried that Parker will be developing a fear of bigger dogs and isn't getting the chance to play with the others. I've mentioned it the the lady who runs the group, but she just says that this is normal and Parker needs to learn how to play with bigger dogs. It did get to one point where Parker got stuck under a chair and the GSD wouldn't let him out (again, the GSD wasn't aggressive). I went to intervene, and the lady made sure that I removed the GSD and not Parker, so Parker got the impression that the GSD was going away rather than him being rescued, so I think she does know her stuff.

I have enrolled Parker into another class so that he will meet other dogs without his stalker being there, but do people think I should keep attending the original sessions? I really like the fact that Parker can be put in his place by the GSD, as our last wheaten was a bit full on and none of the small puppies could handle it. However, I really don't want Parker to end up scared of bigger dogs. I'm not worried about the rough play, so much as the constant attention from one dog.

It really irritates me as I know other people in the group think Parker is the problem, as his voice is the first one they hear. It reminds me of an article I read about dogs being labelled as aggressive when all they are doing is responding normally to "rude" dogs who won't respond to their signals and keep invading their space.

Thoughts? Advice? Wisdom? All appreciated.

This is a tough one i am sure someone will be able to help.  I own the larger size of dogs and if mine get a bit too focused on a pup at classes i tell them to Leave.  I have a young 4 month old at the min so i am taking him along at the moment.  Some dogs can get fixated on a specific pup but i wouldn't be happy if it was mine doing it.  You don't want your little one getting a thing for big dogs, he will remember this.
Yvonne

Have you spoken to the owner of the GSD and aksed him/her to move away as your not really happy with their dogs behaviour...or maybe something less rude lol ;)
We had this at our training class, a border terrier followed Turbo everywhere, eventually I asked the lady could we have some space and she didnt even realise her dog had been doing it and moved away :)

People notice more then you think at training classe so Im sure your baby isnt under suspicion as its obvious when a bog dog follows a smaller one but not the other way round lol

I would speak to the trainer and the lady and just explain your problem afer all the GSD has a problem too with pestering dogs and may one day get bitten by a dog who isnt intrested in keep telling him to go away, so why dont you help each other and mention your problem and if she does get arsey then you know youve done what you can and move classes if thats what you want but me I would discuss it and not be pushed out of a class I had paid for :)

To me it sounds like neither puppy is being OTT and both are learning doggy manners which is exactly how it should be at a puppy class. :-) If the lady who runs the class is experienced I would hope she would know at what point she or someone needed to step in - rather the same way as children learning how to behave with each other but an adult reigning in if they overstep the boundaries.

If you are confident that the lady running the class is experienced and knows what she is doing then hopefully there should be no problem. :-)

ETA - if there is anything you want clarified about the behaviour maybe speak to the lady running the class - she should be happy to explain the behaviour and why she thinks it is good and helpful for the pups to play this way and at what point she would feel the need to step in.

Have you spoken to the owner of the GSD and aksed him/her to move away

Actually, I haven't as I wasn't sure whether it was in Parker's best interests to let him handle it himself. The couple who own the GSD are a lovely pair in their seventies (I have no idea why they have a new GSD puppy as there is no way they could handle it in an emergency, but there you go) and even they have expressed concern for Parker as their dog is so much bigger, but they don't like to interfere as the woman running the classes is happy. I'm sure they wouldn't be offended if I had a word. To be honest, I would be more worried that the old dear would burst into tears and never let her dog near another puppy again.

I think if I decide that I'm not happy, then I need to speak to the woman who runs the class as the last thing I want is a face off with her in front of the other owners. If she maintains that it's fine, then I either trust her or I don't go back. I posted this thread to help me decide what is in his best interest.

To me it sounds like neither puppy is being OTT and both are learning doggy manners which is exactly how it should be at a puppy class.

I'd like to agree and I'm really not one of those owners who panics about the dogs playing rough together. The GSD hasn't done anything that would injure Parker and I'm not remotely worried that it would. It's more the level of focus on one dog that has me worried. There are seven puppies apart from Parker in the class and he never has chance to play with six of them as he spends his whole time trying to get away from the GSD, and then puppy fighting with it once he's had enough of dodging. I really have no idea how he would interact with the smaller dogs as I've never had chance to see it. :-(

> I really have no idea how he would interact with the smaller dogs as I've never had chance to see it.

In that case I would suggest speaking to the trainer and explaining your concerns would be your best bet - and maybe she can subtly arrange some way that the GSD is redirected to other pups and Parker gets a chance to interact with other pups too.

Just wait and see how it goes babe :)
If Parker is handling the expierance well and the GSD isnt being rough or too boisterous for a puppy then I would leave them be :)
Maybe chat to the lady regardless and talk about the 2 pups and maybe even have some time to yourselves in the corner of the room so they can get aquainted :)

I would suggest speaking to the trainer in that case, yes, agree; as your lad does need to experience fun and enjoyment, and how to interact with other dogs - NOT just be dodging the gsd and then ending up play fighting.

Are the pups all let off at once? as most reputable puppy trainers tend to not do this...free for alls aren't so easily controllable. We tend to let certain pups off together, usually a maximum of 3, most often 2. We do of course change which pups play with which other pups.

I assist in a puppy class and if a pup seems overly worried, we will watch and try to guide the following dog away if he for instance corners the pup constantly. Otherwise, to my way of thinking, it's a bit like saying a shy child will overcome the shyness when forced to mix with the most outgoing child - doesn't work.

However it's hard to comment without seeing :)

Is the trainer a member of any organisation?

Thankfully the GSD didn't turn up to class today. I felt really guilty as the minutes passed and I hoped he wasn't just late, as I really like the dog and owners, but the whole class felt completely different without him there. It isn't his fault he's about 20 times the size of all the others. It was so nice to see Parker chilled out and playing really nicely with the other puppies and then going off on his own to sniff around the garden, he barely barked at all (he's a terrier with a bit of spark - he'll always bark a little!!!).