We have two wheaten terriers. The older dog we got as a puppy two years ago from a highly regarded breeder, and she had had a whole battery of blood tests, eye exam etc etc etc. As it was our first dog is many years, we were really happy that all this care had been taken.

When we got our second puppy, a few weeks ago, we also went to a reputable breeder, who had been recommended by the first breeder and whose litters have done really well in the show ring. I had assumed that all breeders would do the same tests on their litters, and so never thought to ask the question until a couple of days before we went to pick the boy up. The breeder very calmly and fairly explained that a number of years ago they had made the decision not to test their puppies, as blood tests and eye exams in puppies just a few weeks old are unreliable, and put the pups through considerable distress. Re the eye exam in particular, there is no problem of blindness in the breed and so there is a question mark over whether retinal folds should be a concern.

I was quite shocked by the answer, but I do trust the breeder (who didn't put any pressure on us) and we had already fallen in love with the puppy, so we decided to go ahead and take him. The puppy has had his routine check-ups and the vet is happy he is a healthy dog, though clearly these would not show up anything in his blood or genes. I am now getting worried as to whether or not we have done the right thing.

We keep our dogs as pets. We do not show and do not plan to breed. Therefore, I am not concerned over whether or not they could be a carrier of any condition, only if they may be a sufferer. Our contract with the breeder states that if we discover that there is an inherited condition within 12 months, we could hand him back and get our money back (we get less for the longer we keep him), but we would never do this as it would feel like giving up a child because they were ill.

My question is, were we idiots to take a dog knowing that it hadn't had any blood tests, even though we went to an established and well known breeder? Also, would there be any benefit in getting blood tests done ourselves? I don't really want to go down this route, but it would be interesting to hear people's views.

Were his parents tested for all these things?

It depends if the things being checked for are congenital.  For example eye testing my breed as pups would be pointless as they would pass as the problems we very rarely get come on after several years.

Re blood tests I take this to mean DNA tests for a specific inherited condition?  If it is available then I think they should be done if there is any chance some of the pups could be affected, but if genetically based on parents status (both clear or one carrier and one clear) this was not going to happen, then I can understand a breeder not doing them if it was going to be difficult, involving travelling far or timing for group tests wrong etc.

If the blood tests are just for a general MOT then unless the litter were showing signs of Ill health then they would be a bit OTT and overkill in my view. 

> as blood tests and eye exams in puppies just a few weeks old are unreliable, and put the pups through considerable distress

IMHO Nonsense!
The pups would have to be of very suspect temperament to be distressed by these.

> We keep our dogs as pets. We do not show and do not plan to breed

In that case I would not think that testing at this time would be of any help to you, unless of couse you want to take the pup back.Since that doesn't seem to be an option for you then IMO I would just get on with loving the pup and enjoy it. 

http://www.wheaten.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&id=34&Itemid=11

I was looking to see what tests were done - but the relevant pages appear to be down - might be worth checking back later on the site as reliability depends what the test is. :-)

Thanks for everyone's comments. That link has actually been down for about six months(!) but I think the only important test is for RD/liver function. I understand that tests for this on mum and dad can only show if they are sufferers (they are clear), but not if they are carriers, so the test really has to be on the puppy himself. The other tests they recommend are really for dogs that are to be bred from, as they are not currently problems in the breed but are being monitored (eg. retinal folds that could in theory lead to blindness).

I know in my breed one certain eye test cannot be done until the earliest 14 weeks as they can get true results before then.  Don't know whether it's the same for this breed though?

I know Wolfhounds get tested for liver shunt - if that's the liver thing that's being tested for this is a wolfhound link about it.

http://www.cornovi-iw.co.uk/livershunt_page.htm

http://www.vetprof.com/clientinfo/juvenilerenal.html

This says that the renal disease in SCWTs is thought to be recessive and says gene markers are being worked on for it, to develop a DNA test presumably. So I would imagine the blood test in that case would be for kidney function and might not show anything unless the pup was severely affected. Your best bet might be phoning whoever is health secretary\ co-ordinator in the breed club as they should be best placed to advise you. :-)

With Border Collies the parents should have had all the DNA tests done & the puppies should be screened for Colombas that are not related to CEA & BAER tested for hearing(as should the parents). Only puppies that have one parent that is a carrier for any of the conditions that there is a DNA test for will DNA testing for that condition. Both parents need to be hip & elbow scored well below the breed mean score

DNA testing done on puppies is just as accurate as those done on adults

You have lost me a little (well a lot actually!) - I thought we were talking about Wheaten Terriers, and that it appeared there wasn't an available DNA test for RD yet.

I think I've got my answer. Nobody has slated me for getting a pup that wasn't tested and being silly enough not to ask before we fell in love, and that was what I was worried about.

My understanding is that the gene for RD is recessive and the only test available will only show positive if the puppy has taken the gene from both parents. If a dog has only one gene, then it will be a carrier only and will not show up on a test. Hence, just because both parents show clear, a breeder might still want to test a litter.

Thanks guys for all your help and tips.

For a wheatens their are no DNA tests as yet for any conditions.  This was the same situation in dachshunds only a couple of years ago, until then we were using eye exams to look for issues.  Most of our dogs came back clear or carriers from the DNA, with only one affected.  However all had pasted eye exams well into old age.  So personally dont think that eye exams in a puppy can find anything other that serious problems from birth which any vet should pick up.
Only thing I recommend is keep an ear out for new tests for your breed and volunteer some doggy DNA that was more conditions should hopefully be spotted sooner from DNA.

But congrats on the new addition, wheatens are such lovely dogs

Emma

Glad you've found out what you wanted. :-)