My friend has a 5 month old puppy who has just been diagnosed as suffering with severe hip displacia. 

The vets suggest that the kindest option might be to have him put to sleep.  What would your reaction to this be ?  Do you think it is the kindest option, or are there other options that my friend might be able to consider?

He has been told that springers often don't exhibit signs of pain, even if they are feeling them.

He has been back to the breeder, but the breeder didn't want to know - even told him it was due to the food he'd been fed etc. Grrrrrr...  the breeder was recommended to my friend, but unfortunately, to those 'more in the know' the breeder is not one who should have been recommended.

My friend is very upset about this, obviously, as his whole family adore the pup.  If he does have to have him put to sleep, he would like to offer a home to another pup as soon as possible - do you think a good breeder would understand this need, and do you know any good breeders that you can recommend ?  In addition to English springer spaniels he may also be intersted in a Welsh springer spaniel, or even a cocker spaniel.

Thanks for any advice or suggestions or recommendations.

If the hip dysplasia is severe then euthanasia can be the kindest option. It really depends on the dog and how he is, and the vets who have examined him and his owners are best placed to see that. Some dogs have 'bad' hips that don't cause them a big problem, and if they get muscle built up round them (obviously they would have to be careful in a growing pup) for support can cope well with them, though they do get arthritic. (Hydrotherapy can help a lot but they would need to discuss with the vets whether it was appropriate.) Others really struggle. There are surgical options like hip replacements and TPO, but they are big surgeries and can't be done till the pup's a bit older, and the question would also be whether they would want to put what is an active breed through the rest until he's old enough then a big op - they need to consider recovery and outcome too. Just throwing some ideas in as the best option is going to depend on the how the dog is etc.

Hope that makes some sense as brain is rather fried at the moment so what I am writing aint coming out how I want to say it. I think Hannibal may have been here....

Some more thoughts - in terms of future breeders. Advise them to go through the breed club for whichever breed they choose who will or should have members who follow breed club recommendations re health testing, responsible breeding etc. Eng Springers should be fucosidosis tested, eye tested for CPRA,GPRA and MRD and following that experience hip scored too - below the breed mean which is 14 http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Breed_Mean_Scores_-2008.pdf (all the testing is for the puppies parents btw). I don't know if any springer breeders check elbows? Have I missed any tests?

Welsh Springers should have eyes checked for G & HC - and be hip scored - don't know if there's any other testing, and Cockers as well as eye testing should be checked for familial nephropathy and I have a feeling there was something else. So basically they need to look into the health testing of the litter parents and make sure it has been done and the results are satisfactory.

Both these links have some more info on hip dysplasia.

http://www.recoverysa.com/hip_dysplasia_dogs.htm

http://www.abingtonvetreferrals.co.uk/hip_dysplasia.htm

If you scroll down some info on HD and hydrotherapy

http://www.mascottshydrotherapy.com/ailments.htm

Breed club site for English Springers

http://www.englishspringer.org/

Breed club site for Welsh Springers

http://www.wssc.fsnet.co.uk/

Breed club site for Cockers

http://www.thecockerspanielclub.co.uk/

Too much information. :-D :-D :-D

He has been back to the breeder, but the breeder didn't want to know - even told him it was due to the food he'd been fed etc.

Were the parents hip scored with good results? If not, the breeder is being very irresponsible indeed. :( Is the dog insured? It is possible to do hip replacement surgery, although I have no personal experience of it and know it isn't always an option. I have a dog with severe HD myself, he is 12 now and doing fine on just medication -but he didn't show any symptoms until he was 6 years old and that could be the big difference. Whether he showed actual PAIN or not though, he couldn't hide the fact that when he got bad, his hindlegs just didn't work, so he couldn't get up after laying down for instance. I'd have thought even a dog that was good at hiding pain could not hide anything like that -and failure to walk properly, getting up etc to me would mean the dog was in pain to some degree.

If it was my dog, I'd at least try medication first to see if there was any change. My Dandy could not walk at all for a while, now he can go for walks and has done for years. To start with he needed Rimadyl from the vet, these days he's only on Glucosamine with Chondroitin bought from health food shops, it's working really well for him. :)

I hope there can be a good outcome for this poor pup.

Hi,
I have an ESS who was diagnosed with HD at around 6 months. Initially I was told I'd never be able to walk him far and certainly never off lead, that he'd never be able to run after a ball, and generally do all the things that Springers love. It was a nightmare trying to contain a young energetic springer! He was a possible candidate for an op but was too young when first diagnosed so it was a case of 'wait and see'. He was put on Metacam and Cosequin capsules as well as a few courses of hydrotherapy (covered by the insurance, phew!) to help develop his muscles enough to support his hips. After talking to lots of people (our trainer was very helpful) I basically decided that it wouldn't be fair to deny him the joys of being a dog in order to preserve his hips, although I obviously didn't want him to be in pain. After the hydrotherapy we gradually started to build up his exercise each day, allowing him longer and longer off the lead. Sometimes we over did things and had to ease off for a bit, but on the whole he was pain free (appeared to be) and comfortable. It took about 18 months to build him up to the point where we could take him on lovely long walks with no ill effects. He's 6 (almost) now and I can honestly say that I can't remember the last time he needed Metacam or appeared uncomfortable. He used to 'bunny hop' but rarely does that now, and I honestly believe he's not in any discomfort. I know his hips may not last him as well as I would have liked, and I'm prepared for that, but I know that he's thoroughly enjoyed the years he's had so far.

When I contacted his breeder, he really wasn't interested either. He said I'd walked him too much and that it was my fault.

I'm sorry to hear about this pup and hope there will be a good outcome.

On reading this please note BUNNY HOPPING IS NOT A SIGN OF HD !!  My Spanish bunny hop and have good hipscores.

Really?
No need to shout! That's is interesting though. My vet definitely told me that bunny hopping was a sign of discomfort. Maybe it's different for different breeds or different ages, or just to particular individual dogs.

Topsy

Curious to know is the springer from working lines or show?

There is a need to shout it bugs me how many people state on sites that bunny hopping and lying down like a frog means that they have HD.  Think your vet needs to update his theories myself!  The only way to tell that a dog has HD is by x-raying.

Bunny hoping and lying down frogs legs style doesn't necessarily mean hip dyspasia as neither does lameness or stiffness but it can be one of the signs of HD.  Some dogs pace and bunny hop through lazy movement but some dogs bunny hop when they are in discomfort in thier hind quaters.  Some dogs like JRT and SBT lie legs out behind quite commonly but again it can be a sign of loose joints so if someone noticed those things along with any onther symptoms that they awere worried about then it would be worth being checked out.

This information came from one of the top ortho vets in the south who operated on my dog who had double HD.

To the OP, I would advise them to follow their vets advice and then to seek a second opinion so they can have two opinions on which to base their decision.  There is so much that can be done for most dogs with HD.  There are a few cases where it is kinder to let the dogs go peacefully, I hope he isn't one of those dogs and he goes on to have a long and happy life.

Well maybe it's fair to say that bunny hopping can sometimes be a sign of pain or discomfort. I really don't know myself as I didn't spend 7 years studying veterinary medicine, unlike my vet.

> lying down like a frog means that they have HD

funnily enough every dog of ours EXCEPT the one with HD does/did this :)

My boy lies like this all the time. He has a 3:3 hip score.

>> lying down like a frog means that they have HD
> funnily enough every dog of ours EXCEPT the one with HD does/did this :-)

And mine never lays like that and he does have HD

I have had a dog with severe HD, who eventually had both hips replaced, and never looked back. I currently have a dog with HD who manages very well on Metacam (an anti-inflammatory) and lives a perfectly normal life. Also HD can improve a little with maturity. I would ask for a referral to an orthopaedic surgeon to evaluate the dog. BTW has he had x-rays to confirm the diagnosis?  HD can ONLY be confirmed by x-ray. Your friend would then need to take the x-rays and the dog to the orthopaedic surgeon.  I am frankly astonished that a vet who is not a specialist in this area would be suggesting a 5 month old puppy be pts.

I think that to put this puppy to sleep without further investigation would be appalling.

BTW HD happens regularly even with parents with fantastic hip scores. No scheme has yet to really have any effect on it. The KC asked for DNA samples from HD affected and non affected dogs about three years ago now, to see if there was a genetic marker for HD. Results not yet known. So please don't automatically assume this dog is badly bred, and HD can be influenced by surroundings/food too, as far as they know.

Please ask her to investigate further.

Kat

Yes, the pup has been X-Rayed - I wouldn't have said he had hip displacia if he hadn't been x-rayed.  The vet is a very good vet in a practice where there are more than one vet, and they have discussed the pups x rays. The vet is looking at all possibilities and has suggested that pts may be 1 option, he has not said or recommended it as the only option. 
I note your thought that you have felt a need to put in bold letters, but what is my message here doing, if not attempting further investigation?  My friend is obviously doing so too so please don't be judgemental.

Thank you for these links - I will go through them and pass them on.  Can't comment on any of them yet as haven't had time to read them just yet lol.

I'm not sure to be honest ... does it matter?  I'll ask my friend when I see him next week if you think it matters.

Thanks for that, and for the information given by many others of you - I will wade through it all and pass it on.  It is most appreciated.

Topsy, I hope your friend manages to help the pup.
Just a point.
When you reply to every thread, they all come at the bottom, and we dont know which message you are replying to.
So can you Quote the message you are replying to IE

>                                  Thanks for that, and for the information given by many others of you

But without the gap so just put a > in front of it - like this (edited to say you dont even need to worry about the gap, you just need to put the >
on the same line as you want grey!!

>Thanks for that, and for the information given by many others of you

Or put it in italics
Like this
Thanks for that, and for the information given by many others of you
Copy paste and the highlite the bit you are replying to and then click the i above the messge box
HTH
(and sorry mods for taking it completely off topic!!!)
Lea.

Then people will be able to see what you are replying to.
Or

You are welcome. :-) Let us know how things go with your friend's pup. :-)

Our lab is now 8 and when she was 3 months even standing was a problem for her due to hd, our vet recommended hydrotherapy and within a few weeks she was standing, and within couple months was walking properly. we continued with weekly sessions for a couple of years, whilst she grew and now she goes once a month. Out of interest I had her hip scored which came back at 96.  Megan has other health problems but she still goes for her walks and plays with the others although sometimes when she has played too much she is a bit lame for a couple of days.  Only in the last year has she started on medication again for pain relief.  We did consider hip replacements but with her other problems and after speaking to the specialist decided to go down the hydrotherapy route.

Tracy

> The vets suggest that the kindest option might be to have him put to sleep.  What would your reaction to this be ?

That was my reaction Topsy - sorry it is how I felt :)  and I can't help how I feel. The vet is looking at all possibilities and has suggested that pts may be 1 option, he has not said or recommended it as the only option. Sorry but from your original post it seemed to be the only option your friends vet has offered, as you do not mention any other options in your OP.


Although there may be more than one vet in a practice and they all may be very good, they are not necessarily orthopaedic specialists, they are the animal equivalent of GP's.  I am surprised and a little dismayed that they have not already offered an orthopaedic referral already, but perhaps that was one of the other options you didn't mention.

> Yes, the pup has been X-Rayed - I wouldn't have said he had hip displacia if he hadn't been x-rayed.

You would be surprised how many initial diagnoses of HD were made prior to x-ray.

I am sorry if my post sounded offensive, it was not intended - more just horrified 'in the moment'. I can only say I have a lot of personal experience with HD (unfortunately) so do feel a little qualified to share my feelings here.

I had a GSD with appaling HD once.He was six months old when diagnosed. He was put on very very limited exercise for six months then began a gradual prosses of building up the time he was allowed to walk, his weight kept down and by 18 months could walk all day with no ill effects, running for limited periods, his choice of distance. He lived a good life, I lost him at 14.5yrs, a great age. He enjoyed his life and I enjoyed having him around so do look at the options, HD may not neccesarily mean the end, carefull management can sometimes overcome HD. Oh and by the way he Bunny Hopped all the time! never had another GSD that did it. His hips fused and it was the only way he could get a run going!
Aileen
PS Just to say he was castrated at six months but given half a chance would mate any bitch willing...and with great gusto!!!

I go on about hydrotherapy quite a bit but people i know with a 3 year old lab with servere HD does it and they cannot believe the difference it has made...