Hi All,

I've not posted for ages, so hi all first of all. 

I have a rescue Rhodesian Ridgeback, who is 6 and we've had him since he was 4, and a Sussex Spaniel who is 6 who we've had since a pup.  Until a month or so ago, we had a Doberman, who left with the lodger beginning Aug.  A new lodger has moved in, but it is a friend who is round permanently anyway.  He is brilliant with the dogs.

Over the last three months approx, every morning, there is mess in the lounge.  Both wee and poo, well I say poo, what's left of it!  They get let out last thing at night at around 12 o clock, and the lodger opens the back door around 6 ish in the morning, so they are not exactly waking up with their legs crossed.  The other night, I took them upstairs to sleep with me, and they slept until 10 in the morning (bliss) without asking to go out at all.  During the day, I work part time, and leave the back door open.  Again, I come back to mess.  Every now and then, we get a 'spray' wee, which is obviously the RR, (unless the SS is standing on a chair) but it is usually the SS.  We thought that when India (the Dobie) went, she would be better, as India used to pick on her dreadfully, but she continues - regardless of whether the door is open or not. 

They are both so much more settled since India's departure, and many people have commented on the calmness in the house now, so can't understand why they dogs are still dirty? 

Any help would be gratefully appreciated,

Thanks, Clare, Pumba and Betty xx

Hi,

It sounds like maybe they've been feeling pretty unsettled, especially if the Dobe was picking on one of them.  Then (even though for the better) their routine has changed again.  If they were fine when you took them up stairs could you do that for a while to break the pattern of them going indoors at night as it may have become a bit of a habit aswell. 

It might help them feel a bit more secure being near you at night, at least if they do need out you will hear them.  It might also be worth getting a DAP diffuser or getting them a DAP collar each again which might help them feel a bit more secure as changes can be unsettling.  DAP is a synthetic appeasing pheromone and can be really helpful for some dogs in situations like this.

I would also go back to basics a bit - If possible keep the doors shut so that they differentiate between going in the garden and indoors as sometimes with the door open it can all just be one big area to them.  Go outside with them each time for toilet breaks and praise them lots when they go outdoors :-)

Edited to add, also just wandred what you are cleaning up with, avoid anything with amonia in it as this attracts peeing in that area.  If there is any lingering scent it will encourage them to go in the same place again.

Hi Karen,

I think you might be right, Betty just jumps on any band wagon going, and Pumba is the one that cannot tolerate change in routine (bless him) and will scent anything that looks scentable! 

Will start taking them upstairs again, they used to sleep with me (spoilt puppies) but I moved them downstairs when my baby was born just over a year ago.  They adapted to that in a matter of days, which I was really proud of them for. Also, to differentiate between outside and inside is also a good plan - in the summer, with the children, all my doors are open, but as it's getting cold, this wouldn't be a bad thing for them, my finances, and my carbon footprint. 

Will also look into DAP.  You have suggested some superb things. 

I thought it might be separation anxiety, but I have just gone from full time to part time, so can't thing that is the reason, unless they are checking my hours, and noticing they are in different shifts (ie: 9 - 5.30 with a lunch break at home to 9 - 3 coming home then).

Thanks for your advice Karen,

Clare :-) 

Hi Clare, my dogs sleep in the bedroom with me and everything is fine. If they need out due to, erm, upset tummies shall we call it ;-) then I hear them. However, if I leave the bedroom door open then I can almost guarantee that I will get up in the morning to a present :-(

Dogs like routine, and any change, even though it's for the better, can upset them. Give them a bit of time to adjust, and hope that things improve for you.

Update on the poopy poops.  They now sleep up with me, however, there has only been two nights where Betty (the Sussex) hasn't wanted to go out.  This can be anything from an hour after they've just been let out, to 4 o clock in the morning.  To this end, I'm now falling asleep at work!  I'm now thinking that clearing up mess in the morning is preferable to being woken up at 4 in the morning and having to stand waiting for Betty to have a wee, have a nose, have a sniff, and 15 mins later, come back in.   My friend suggested a cage, but Betty will howl and howl, and with two small children, a lodger, and neighbours, that isn't really do-able.

Also, does anyone know the name of that amazing cleaning product that eliminates dog odour without leaving an amonia 'reminder' for the dogs?  I was recommended some once, and it smelt like bubblegum, it was lovely! 

Going to have 40 winks whilst the boss is out..... LOL

I'm now thinking that clearing up mess in the morning is preferable to being woken up at 4 in the morning and having to stand waiting for Betty to have a wee, have a nose, have a sniff, and 15 mins later, come back in.

Don't just let her out by herself. Put her on her lead, accompany her out into the garden so you can heap praise upon her when she performs and then bring her straight back inside again and put her back in her bed. Out in the garden at 4am on a cold, wet night is not a favourite place of mine but  there isn't really any alternative if you want to housetrain her successfully :) Leaving her to do her own thing is not going to help matters - you need to be able to make sure she has performed and most importantly heap praises upon her for having done so. With a bit of time spent doing this now you will reap the rewards :)

Do you mean the one that also comes in cherry and pineapple and you dilute it. I f so I will find the ebay link I have used for it.

I think you're right Harley, but I'm just so exhausted (other marvellous happenings in my life are keeping me awake also) so have left the dogs downstairs again, and betty howls for 15 mins and settles down now.  I still get up to a tiddle and a present, and the first night they were downstairs again, we had 5, yes 5 presents!  So although it sounds dreadfully lazy training-wise, the 4 hours sleep I manage to gleen of a night I am trying to hold onto at present, because if I continue to fall asleep at work, I will be loosing my job, let alone my patience.  When things settle down a bit, I will follow your instructions and I have no doubt they will work (have been told the same but with bacon added to the praise), but for the moment I am going to have to look after myself, or I will be fit for burger all.  :-( 

Thanks for the message :-) 

Clare x

Not sure of the other flavours, I mean scents.... but that may well be the one.  If you could let me have the link, that would be brilliant, then that will take out the 're-scent- option. 

Thanks,

Clare x

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4x5L-ODOURFRESH-professional-DISINFECTANT-DEODORISER_W0QQitemZ330278233548QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item330278233548&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Found it!!!!   Wonderful!!  Now looking for a DAP plug in, or collar. 

Crossed fingers and some sleep filled nights, then I'll be well away.  :-)

Thanks all :-)

The problem with not taking her out, although I do appreciate you are exhausted, is that she is now learning the wrong message ie she can, and so does, toilet indoors. It is really hard to get up to take them out when all you want to do is sleep but if you do adhere to that routine she will get the hang of the idea that the only place to relieve herself is outdoors in the garden. It does take a while but once they have learnt that outdoors is the only acceptable place to go then you will enjoy the benefits of years of uninterrupted sleep and she will enjoy the benefits of having a less stressed out owner :)

Our GR was a pup during the colder, wetter months and I spent many an evening and the wee small hours of the night trudging up the garden with a very excited puppy who thought I would love to play a game or two with him, be thrilled at the sight of him chasing leaves, moths and shadows when all I really wanted to do was to fall back into bed and snore my head off :) But it honestly didn't take very long for him to learn that he was out there for one purpose only and play was not on the menu. Within a few weeks he was completely housetrained and we were all able to catch up on our much needed sleep and also able to enjoy getting up to a clean floor and a happy puppy, which meant us humans were happy as well :)

I appreciate what you're saying Harley, I truely do, but at the moment, logistically and financially, I cannot afford to loose my job, so falling asleep at work is not an option.  :-( 
She was perfectly housetrained before we had lodger changes and a mean dobie to bully her, and I think it is a stress/spite thing with everything going on, and me putting them back downstairs.  Saying that, we only had one tiddle this morning, so she may be getting back into the swing of things on her own.  As a dog in herself, she is 6 years old, she is very mischeivous, and a bit of a monkey (if somethings knocked off the table, it'll be her, if something has been eaten on the side, it'll be her - she is very wiley with the use of chairs as a stepping stone) so think this messing is short term, from the other's advice too, rather than her reverting back to pre-housetraining days. 
When things have calmed down in my personal life, if she is still doing it, I will be out in the middle of the night with her with pleasure (lol) but am hoping that the calming effect fairy will be flying over us both before too long. 
Thanks again, Clare :-)

The one that smells like bubblegum is Odorkil fron Animal Health company. A friend used it recently when a stray tom got into her house worked wonders!
Angela

When my son in law returned from Africa he thought crate training was cruel and that his african dogs would howl way too much for his comfort let alone the neighbours. His dogs were a 6 year old and a two year old street dog. He is now a complete convert to crate training.

To start with I put the crate in a quiet corner of the kitchen or room the dogs will stay in, I cover it with a blanket so it looks like a small den. Dogs like these secure little places to tuck themselves away. I give each dog time to get used to the crate, and treats or stuffed kongs encourage them to think of the crate as a nice place to be. Then for a few minutes at a time I close the door when they have the treats and finally I find by increasing the time the door is shut the dog just accepts this as being normal. I always give a treat when they go in the crate, which is their signal that we need some time out.

Hi,

Sorry you are still having troubles.  Did you try yhe DAP collar?  Have you considered that with her needing to go that many times in a night while she was up with you and still having accidents that there could be a medical cause?  It would be worth a vet check and taking a urine sample along with you.

I can understand why you decided short term that having then up stairs wasn't going to work, but it has just been another change in their routine, I would decide on a routine and stick with.  Whatever is going on she certainly isn't toileting out of spite, dogs just don't work like that, no matter how much it feels like it when you are frustrated :-)

It may have become a habit in which case you need to break the habit, by getting up to let her relieve herself, which is obviously not a great solution for you at the moment, is there someone that could share that task with you. 

It may be that she is stressed in which case something really needs to be done to alleviate that stress, as if that's why she is having accidents she must be fairly stressed and she can't be left indefinitely just messing out of stress, it is unlikely to improve on its own and may progress to showing other stress related behaviours.

Either that or it may well be something medical, I would want that possibility ruled out first.

Good luck.

Hey all.  Thought about the crate option, but Betty's howling is just painful, and Sussex Spaniels can howl for England.  Crate training at 6, when she's been spoilt rotten I think would have an adverse affect. 

Didn't try the DAP collar, because I saw another thread on here, and it didn't have great reviews and they aren't cheap, so thought I'd try other methods first. 

Thought about the urine infection side, as not only was there mess, the urine was getting increasingly strong (maybe dogs - like children, have to 'go' and then can't stop themselves going for a number 2 whilst squatting?), anyhoo, have given her some antibiotics over the last 4 days, and have had 2 wees only!!  The howling has stopped when I go to bed, (albeit she does try and squeeeeeze through the lounge door when I go up still), so maybe just the little bit of spoilt comfort, coupled with the antibiotics has done the trick? 

Unfortunately, it's just me, 2 small children, and 2 stinky dogs lol, so no one to share any of this with, although my lodger has seen me getting more stressed/worried/tired, and had the baby so I could take them out without prams, stressful time in the car etc, which is a task in itself, so with his help, and just the 5 year old on walks, things are getting better. 

Thought about maybe reducing the number of legs in the house, but couldn't pick my favourite between the dogs and the kids :-)))))) 

Thanks again for all your continued support and will keep you updated.

Clare xx