I wonder if anyone can help me? I recieved a Cocker Spaniel puppy for my birthday 2wks ago. With it came the papers , but they were photocopied and don't have a KC Reg Cert No with it. How can i find out it this is original please?

To my knowledge the only one who would have that is the breeder and who ever brought the pup should have been given the pedigree papers and a transfer of ownership docs, do you have that at least?

Dont want to worry you but I would wonder if it was actully a KC reg puppy as when we got ours we had the full set of ped, transer of ownership and also kc reg reg cert no How much was paid for it do you know?

Its just photocopied docs were always something I was warned off when seeking a KC Reg pup :(

Thanks, i don't know how much my nephew paid for it but i believe it was a few quid. All i have is a piece of paper with the GGGG Parents up to the present parents on it. So you believe the papers are not right? Seemingly on the paper her GG Parents were Champions as was her GGGG Parents.just wish i knew what to do.

Forgot to say. the KC REG No is not on the top of the paper

That document you are referring to is simply the pedigree which a breeder can handwrite, produce by computer etc, and of course might choose to photocopy?

A pedigree can be written even for a crossbred litter or ones that are not registered, it is a simply a family tree, but without Kennel club registration the details cannot be verified in any way.

Some breeders will pay the Kennel club to do pedigrees at the same time as they register the puppies.  The Kennel Club registrations are forms that only give the parents names, and will show what health tests they have had, and who the breeder of the litter is, and will have the kennel Club logo..

This document is the only real proof of the dog being purebred.

What about there being no kc reg no?
does that make a difference as you cant register a dog on champ dogs without having that first can you?

and do you have transfer of ownership docs so you can change the name from the breeder to yourself?

What you have is a photocopy of her pedigree - that's not a problem. Lots of breeders write out just one copy and photocopy it for the rest of the litter - it's an awful lot of names to write out!

What you should have is a Registration Certificate that has been signed by the breeder and that you also sign to transfer her ownership from the breeder to you. (Example here)

You could always contact the Kennel Club and ask if a litter was registered to the sire and dam.

thank you for replying. i'm very greatfull for your information.So this paper that i have i should keep it? Can you also help me on how i go about finding out if her parents,grand parents etc are truely champions?As it says it on the papers.

No I have no such certificate like the example you have shown me.So i take it she not KC reg. Is that a bad thing?Or should i try and reg her?

I have no transfer of owneship documents. Just the paper of her pedigree.Thanks for your help well appreciated

You cant register a puppy unless both parents were KC reg, so no you cant KC reg her.

It just means that she wont be able to be shown in the show world but apart from that there is no hinderance apart from she may not have had revelant health tests done, if she is a lively robust puppy now she will probably be healthy for the rest of her life. but it might be worth mentioning to who ever brought her and see if you can get the address and go back for a refund or if your happy with your pup regardless of KC reg and dont want to take her back as youve bonded or dont want a refund, keep on how you are and treat it as lifes lesson ready for the next one BUT you will have to get her health tests done when she is old enough IE Hip scores or whatever it is the breed requires to ensure her health 100% these can be found under the breed standard on the front page on CD under guided search - your breed..... :)

i would ask your nephew who the breeder is and contact them initially (i know it is difficult because your nephew obviously means well) and ask them for the KC registration, if there is one.  Also ask if either of the parents has had any health tests i.e optigen for FN & PRA kidney disease & blindness.

The information i have received has been tremendous. I can't thank you all enough. My puppy is a Cocker spaniel and I Love her so much even though i've just had her a couple of weeks.She's had all her injections and she's fine, very happy and playfull. This site is a terrific one and the people who are in it are very helpfull. THANK YOU again

No worries hun :)
I just sent you a Message with a email address of a brilliant breeder of cocker spaniels , please get in touch and Im sure allll will be cool babe and he will have all the advice you could ever need about this gorgeous breed. :)

I can see 100% why you dont want to part with her and who could blame you and whats done is done, I wish you both all the best in the future :)

It might be worth googling some of the names on the pedigree and seeing if they are cocker spaniels and if they are champions.  This might point you towards a false pedigree or could give you confirmation that your dog has champion lines.  I did it for my staff out of curiosity and it is amazing to see the traits she has taken from certain lines in her heritage.

You cant register a puppy unless both parents were KC reg, so no you cant KC reg her.

To be fair there is NOTHING to say the parents are NOT registered. However only the BREEDER can register this pup of course -not anybody else.

> if she is a lively robust puppy now she will probably be healthy for the rest of her life.

If only this was true. Sadly most of the hereditary conditions that affect Cockers are not obvious in an 8 week old puppy so while we all hope this is a healthy puppy, you can't really say it's a probability without knowing a whole lot more.

If hev180 wants to find out more about her pups background, the Cocker Spaniel Club will probably be able to help with verifying the pedigree info etc

I spose if she was sold to your nephew as a pet with just her pedigree and it was made clear she was not KC reg then thats fair enough, but if your nephew was led to believe she was KC reg then i would definately contact the breeder. Some breeders lead unsuspecting new owners into believeing that a pedigree means they are reg...ive known a few people who thought there dog was reg and it wasn't.
If you dont want to breed or show tho then it sounds like you have a lovely little girl. I would agree with the others tho and get some health checks done when shes older...just to be on the safe side. After all we all want our babies around for along time :)
Enjoy your bundle of fun :)

Jane S just to clarify you said this in your post regarding what I said about the pup probably being healthy if she is a robust puppy...

If only this was true. Sadly most of the hereditary conditions that affect Cockers are not obvious in an 8 week old puppy so while we all hope this is a healthy puppy, you can't really say it's a probability without knowing a whole lot more

I just wanted to add that I did stress the importance of having health tests done and also hunted down a very well established breeder of cockers so she could ask what tests need be done at what age so I didnt say she would be guranteed healthy just that if she is robust now its all good signs but the health tests must be done regardless to ensure the health of the dog in later life :) :)

> just wanted to add that I did stress the importance of having health tests done and also hunted down a very well established breeder of cockers so she could ask what tests need be done at what age so I didnt say she would be guranteed healthy just that if she is robust now its all good signs but the health tests must be done regardless to ensure the health of the dog in later life :-) :-)

I'm sure the OP appreciates you hunting down the details of a breeder although we do actually have several experienced Cocker people here on Champdogs ;-) You're right to stress the importance of health tests but sadly doing the tests won't actually ensure the health of the dog in later life - they just tell you what that dog's status is (good or bad) in relation to the particular conditions we can test for.

As has mentioned that is just a copy of the pedigree.  Have to say I write out all of my pups pedigrees no matter if there's one or ten!  This on it's own is suspect!

I didn't think anyone still WROTE pedigrees LOL. I always just print mine out. :)

Have to say I have bought one dog that came with a photocopied pedigree -name of a littermate tippexed out and name of mine written in! Didn't look good at all, but it was all legit, no problem at all -and I just ordered a KC pedigree when I transferred the dog to my name.

I don't think a copy pedigree is suspect at all. If the pup came from registered parents was fully health checked registered etc...I still wouldn't worry about a copy. I do all my pedigrees on the computor! they could just as easily be copies and if not carrying a registered name could all be the same for each pup. I think we can assume this pup is not reg, maybe not health checked but that was not the question...have to say I would be much more wary of it having been sold as a presant for an unknown party! Not usually something a respectable breeder would do!
Aileen

Well actually I also do mine on computers, I know not everyone has a computer but still to me a photocopied pedigree isn't really a good advert for a breeder in my opinion :)

Not everyone has a computer and/or printer ...

Yep my foundation girl came with a handwritten pedigree.  My first three or four litters of pups had each oen handwritten individually, but I know some peopel photocopied them and added the individual dogs names after.

I then did soem pedigrees on my Britehr Wordprocessor before getting a computer at the end of 2000, so only been doing computer ones since then.

Not everyone has a computer and/or printer ...

Maybe not JG but everyone has hands so I would much prefer to see a handwitten one than a photocopied one.  The only time anyone gets a photocopied pedigree off me is if they've used one of my stud dogs.

Maybe not JG but everyone has hands so I would much prefer to see a handwitten one than a photocopied one.

I have 10 pups -it would really hurt my hands to write out pedigrees for all of them. And the time could be better used spent with the pups. :) Also handwritten pedigrees are notorious for mistakes as it isn't always easy to read people's handwriting. I'd rather have a photocopied typed one than a handwritten one any day. :)

I don't think it matters what kind of pedigree your pup came with handwritten, printed or my preference a KC pedigree.

The major problem is you just don't have the KC transfer of ownership form, which obviously then spells out that the pup is not KC registered, unless your nephew has been told it is on it's way, (which occasionally happens if a litter for some reason is registered late by the breeder) I think the chances are the pup will just now have to be a loving pet, which I guess is what it came as anyway :-) and to be honest without the KC papers I think the pedigree will just have to be taken with a pinch of salt as there is no real back up without KC verification that any of it is truth. :-( The breeder can write whatever they like on a pedigree, it is only valid truth of line from the KC.

Just love your pup and don't worry about it, it was lovely of your nephew to get you the pup and perhaps he has not done his homework properly, but however you have the pup now and I am sure she is delightful.

Good luck and we are all here to help with any training issues or future advice. :-)

You've got seven or 8 weeks to write them in, wouldn't hurt that much!!  Sorry, I will keep my mouth shut now.  Just a personal preference.  I now do pedigrees on my computer with photo's etc included.

Several of my dogs have had handwritten pedigrees and one was done on a computer in a font which looks like handwriting and included a beautiful photograph too.  It's without doubt my favourite one - a bit like the good old days when the B,M&D Certs were all done with fountain pens in the most beautiful writing  :) 

For my own pups their puppy packs (with lots of pages LOL) were printed with a similarly attractive font onto paper watermarked with photos of the sire and dam but I took the easy route with the actual pedigrees and had them done by the KC.    I started off with good intentions but there were too many long foreign names :-D

I guess it's down to personal pref and also time (if any!)

> I guess it's down to personal pref and also time (if any!)
>

...and handwriting! After using a mouse for so many years my handwriting is appalling. My script is terrible so I'd have to use draftsman's block lettering to make it legible. Wouldn't be very nice - I think I'd go for a nice font and my friendly software package. :)

> I think I'd go for a nice font and my friendly software package

When were you planning on doing that then? ;-)

I write all my pedigrees, and yes, that can be a lot ;-) You should see the ones that go in the bin 'cos I've made a mistake :-) I did print one lot off, but they got wet and the ink ran so now handwrite them all.

Don't you just hate all the really long names back in the 5th generation? You have to write in really teeny writing and still make it look neat!

I think its the fact she doesnt have transfer of ownership docs or a KC reg number for her dog that makes her worry they aint real!

I got that lovely rip off ped you can get when you transfer ownership, the £28 one?
Shame it only goes up too 5 generations as Turbo has 6 and alot of champs in that generation as well, typical eh why cant they make it as many as you need?! lol

> When were you planning on doing that then? ;-)

Don't get too excited - that was strictly hypothetical :)

> Don't get too excited - that was strictly hypothetical 

It's a start. ;-) :-D And before you know it....