Right where do I start!
Today my male dog tied with my bitch, I can tell you all that this was an accident, thought we was being so careful in keeping them apart, but accidents happen.

Now I do NOT want a litter, so have booked her into the vets for the special injection just incase the tie has taken, BUT I would like to know whether, as I was planning to spay my bitch whether I could just have her spayed instead of the injection???  She has had a litter about 4 months ago, and so you can understand why I do not want this the protential litter, so how soon after her season has finished do I need to wait for the Spay? She is 4 years old
Thank you in advance and please do not bite my head off about this, I am doing the right thing as in not wanting my bitch to have another litter so soon after her last, and I had already decided to have her spayed as I do not want to breed from her again.
Thanks xx

i doubt anyone will bite your head off, it happens, you are trying to fix it. the injection should work but i think you can spay at this stage (you'll get a definate answer from someone soon).

don;t panic, there is nothing you can do right now and either the injection or the spay will stop it. breath deeply.

Hi When I had an accidental mating I asked the vet if would could get my girl speyed and was told I would have to wait another 4 weeks then she could be speyed at the same time as aborting the puppies.Needless to say I opted for the injection and had her speyed 4 months later.

:) thanks Astarte,
I sorry I did not mean to sound rude asking people not to bite my head off, but I am one that has sighed at people when they say 'accident mating' but those people still carried on and had the litter anyway!

I have just spoken to my vet who says that should would not recommend my bitch to be spayed while in season as it can cause continious false pregnancy due to the hormone levels at the time of spaying and could also cause life threatening bleeding????

She wants me to go ahead with the injection, one of Friday and the other on Sunday! and then wait 3 months before spaying???
Has anyone else had their bitch spayed during a season? just after?
thanks again xx

> Needless to say I opted for the injection and had her speyed 4 months later.

why needless to say?

My vets refuse to spay a bitch unless it is mid way between seasons, they say it is too dangerous. So I'd inject and spay later if I was you. The risk of spaying during a season is haemorrhaging due to the increased bloodflow to the womb.

It isn't supposed to cause the same problems to spay a pregnant bitch as to spay a non pregnant one re: the hormones - but spaying a pregnant bitch is going to be riskier - larger blood vessels etc. If it was me I would get the injections done then wait to spay. Do you know which injection they are planning to use? There are 2 different ones - if I was you I would discuss with them which one's going to be best too.

When my girl had an emergency c-section back in June, my girl was spayed at the same time, and yet when another of my girls had a c-section and I asked for her to be spayed at the same time they said it was too dangerous and the blood vessels were delicate during pregnancy and wouldn't recommend it.....strange how two vets (same practice) said completely opposite.

I had one of my bitches spayed by choice when she had a C section following her third and last litter, as I was going to get her spayed anyway.

Gemini,
I had the same happen to me last year, mated Tues (to dog I wanted but wasn't health tested as too young) injection Fri Sun. It didn't work! We had her scanned as she was very clingy etc 4 weeks post jab and she was confirmed preg, we had the litter as I had intended to breed her later, the preg ended in a emergency c sect and I decided to spay at the same time (didn't think it fair to put her thru another preg after that one :-(), luckily I got the pup I wanted from the mating (dog was screened clear at end of preg). I still wonder whether the injection had something to do with the birthing problems caused by very large pup(the one I kept!).
Hope your outcome is better :-) My dog is booked in for Suprelorin implant in 2 weeks!!
Angela

Thank you for all your rplies,

Angela, that is very worry that you had your bitch injected to cancel the pregnancy but still she had a litter! I am so worried, I can't sleep properly at the moment, if the injection does not work then what do I do then?
My bitch had a litter in May, I kept a pup from that litter, hence the reason for having her mated, but if the injection does not work and she is pregnant, this will not be good for her.
Oh dear, HELP!

A friend of mine also used the injection and it didn't work. 2 puppies, one deformed and a giant puppy and an emergency c-section resulted. Not really sure what to advise!

I was going to say a friend of mine two accidental matings both jaged and both had to have C- sections with one large pup in each litter. This was different bitches. Both of which have had healthy big litters before with no problems. She thinks the jag killed all the pups bar one and this was able to grow to big to be delivered.

Sorry to cause you more worry :-( I rang my vet earlier to confirm which was used they will ring me back later-(think they're worried I'm gonna sue or something). I'll let you know later.
One thing to note though was the vet did warn me that the injection she had would restart her season, something to bear in mind if your dog is determined. Vet said they had never had a pregnancy following the injection before.
If the injection didn't work then you could have her spayed esp as you have planned it anyway, my bitch was spayed at the same time as c-sect so she was technically still preg, she was fine. Alternatively if you could home any resulting pups ,your bitch has recovered? from her previous litter and there were no problems with the pairing (health tests/too closely bred)and you can spare the time needed then she could have the litter. Far from ideal but the situation is far from ideal. Fingers crossed you won't have to choose.
Take care
Angela

I am very sorry to sound ignorant but would it be that bad for her if she had the pups?  I believe in the lesser of two evils and believe in mother nature.  I don't feel it is right to abort babies of any living thing.  Suppose our dogs were feral and in the wild and this mating had occured, would that mean certain death for the mother or complicted births or any problems?  Just like domesticated cats can be "wild", so can our domesticated dogs if given the chance.

I am not saying to deliberately breed dogs like machines but if it's a one off chance, I don't see what the problem is.

Please enlighten me!

> I don't feel it is right to abort babies of any living thing.  Suppose our dogs were feral and in the wild and this mating had occured, would that mean certain death for the mother or complicted births or any problems?

Ah but in the wild wild dog bitches, feral bitches, dingoes  & wolves only have one season a year so it wouldn't happen in the wild, especially if they were living in a pack(& not just straying).In the wild the mothers suckle for a much shorter period & the puppies are totally weaned off @ about 4 weeks of age & are fed regurgitated food by the pack. Lots of primitive breeds like Basenjis, Canaan still only have one season a year.

Having a full litter back to back can shorten the bitches life, after all it does take a lot out of a bitch having a litter.

> I believe in the lesser of two evils and believe in mother nature. I don't feel it is right to abort babies of any living thing.

These are NOT "babies" they are fetouses & cannot live out side of the bitches body for many weeks yet.

How many pups did she have in the May litter? If it was a small litter it may not be so bad for her to have another litter so close to the previous. Is the boy closely related to your girl?

> One thing to note though was the vet did warn me that the injection she had would restart her season, something to bear in mind if your dog is determined

This sounds like it may ahve been Delvesteron, I think Alizin a newer drug is more effective and does not prolong/re-start the season, so it is important to know which the Vet used.

I also know someone who had their bitch jabbed (the older product) and she went on to whlp one pup with it's insides out (dead) and one live bitch.

Oh My Goodness!! all these posts, thank you for sharing your experiences with me.

Her last litter in May she had 9 pups, 2 still born and 1 had cleft pallett and was PTS at 2 hours old.

I really want to do the right thing, but what is the right thing!?

I do have the time for a litter, as I do not work, and do have a waiting list for protential puppy owners, BUT I am so concerned about my bitch going through pregnancy and puppy rearing again, don't get me wrong she was a brilliant mother and had no problems with the births, she was a star, but I just feel it is too soon to put her through all of that again.

And the other thing would be getting a bad reputation, I do not want to be thought of as a puppy farmer, who does not careless about her dogs, I love my dogs to death.

Oh god, what do I do???

May have been mesalin in that case which is the older one - alizin the newer one is meant to have fewer side effects and can also be used later into the pregnancy. I know with the mesalin they say it is 95% successful (ie in 5% of cases they will go on to have pups despite the injection).

Dont let her have the pups, she has already just had alitter, go ahead and get the injection its the best for her.

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/virbac_limited/alizin/-34905.html

http://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Intervet_Schering-Plough/Mesalin___Solution_for_injection/-29073.html

Personally if I had a bitch I would not let her have mesalin - but that is just me. If I was you Gemini I would research all the options so you know about them then discuss with your vet which is going to be the best and safest. :-) It's hard when you're on an internet forum getting bombarded with different views.

I can fully understand your dilema Gemini, I think if you have full faith in your vet you must let  him lead you into what he thinks as the best soution for your bitch. I am sure with love care and extra attention you could rear the litter with as little strain to your bitch as possible (Forget the tittle tattlers within the breed....it will be a five minuit wonder before they find something else to tattle about, those good honest people within the breed...and there are lots and lots of them, will understand your problems.) your main concern must be for your bitch.
It looks like you have three choices: spey now and abort the pups, spay later in the pregnancy and abort the pups at the same time or have the injection, or number four have the pups and maybe ensure she has only a few to rear?  Of course you could wait for a few weeks, scan then take action if needed.
I feel sure those within the breed if in full posession of the facts will support whatever desision you make. If not, well that is thier problem and yours is only your bitches health and wellbeing.
Best of luck in whatever you do.
Aileen

Merlot, THank you for your post :)

I am so worried about my bitch with this situation, and only want the best for her.

Could you or anyone tell me, if I wait to see if any pregnancy appears, then if she is, can she then have the injection or be spayed? what is the best option if I leave it to see if the accident mating has taken place? xx

p.s I am tearing my hair out here trying to figure out the best route of action, I was supposed to start puppy classes with my pup tonight but just am not in the mood to socialise with others at the moment .

THEW!!!
I have just spoken to my vet and she has agreed to spay my bitch in two weeks time

She looked up the side effects of the injections as I told her I had been given advice about this, and she did agree that the injection although not very common can cause riskie side effects as well as not actually abort any pregnancies.

So I am now a bit clearer on the way forward for my bitch, we will be taking her to the vets next week for a Pre op and then the following week she will be spayed.

Thank you again to everyone that has given advice and their experiences on this matter, what would I do without Champdogs forum! :))

Glad your feeling more possitive Gemini, Hope all goes well for you and your bitch.
Keep us informed won't you?
Aileen

You have three choices

a  Inject with alizin upto day  52

b spay from day 30 onward - very minimal risk

c let the bitch pup

glad you have a resolution, as merlot said let us know!

> am very sorry to sound ignorant but would it be that bad for her if she had the pups?

yes, shes just had a large litter or 9 pups, thats enormously stressful for a bitch and its unlikely she will be fully recovered from it physically.

> lesser of two evils

causing a bitch pain and difficulty is not the lesser of two evils

> I don't feel it is right to abort babies of any living thing

they are not babies, they are at bes fetuses (sp) at this stage and are in no way concious, nothing is being taken away from them, if they even do exist as the pregnancy is not confirmed. at this stage if she is pregnant she could absorb the pups etc and end it herself- just as with human miscarraige, mother natures way of telling you the times not right.

> Just like domesticated cats can be "wild", so can our domesticated dogs if given the chance

cats are better designed for breeding than dogs and as MM said dogs don't naturally mate as often as cats do.

HTH

Yes of course I will keep you posted on this xx
I feel a bit of relief now, and as Astarte said in a reply to another post, my bitch has not long had a litter of 9 pups and it would be very stressful and risky for her and possiblity the protential pups if I was to let this possible pregnancy to go ahead.

I do not want to drag this discussion out on aborting pregnancies in dogs, but for my bitches sake, and of course for the possible puppies sake, I know I am doing the right thing at this time.

my dogs mean the world to me, and I would not be able to live with myself if anything happened to any of them or I carried on with the protential pregnancy and my bitch struggle or worse, or the pups was deformed or worse.

I will keep you posted. xx

You don't need to justify such a responsible action as aborting an un-planned pregnancy. Simply the fact it is unplanned is reason enough and then there is the health of your girl. Good on you for doing the right thing.

Glad to hear you have a solution. :)

I'm glad you have a solution and wish you and your girl all the best and a quick recovery for her. :)

I had an accidental mating 2 years ago, our bitch went into the kitchen for a drink and I thought our dog was lay by the side of me in the lounge, then our bitch let out such a screech I jumped up and ran into the kitchen, but I was too late! A month later I had had our male dog ''fixed''. Our bitch had the injection and thankfully didnt have puppies.
I was told if you have a bitch and a dog in the same house, its best if one of them is taken somewhere else while the bitch is in season, its mental torture  for the male dog. A dog will do anything to get at a bitch when she is in season.  :-)

So glad you have made a decision, Sorry it took so long to reply it was Delvesteron (sp?) Vet did say this morning that they have changed to a newer one, think they thought it had happened again! It was the vet that rang also not the usual nurse LOL Im sure they were a little worried by my sudden interest. So glad I didn't have any deformaties in my litter. Best wishes for you and your girl :-)

Angela

That is interesting as it was Delvesteron that my Friends dobe had and still went on to have the one live and one deformed pup.

My bitch went on to have puppies after having a meslin injection. She had a litter of 13 in the November.and when she came in season in the April she dug through a door to get at my boy. We didn't want any more puppies so had the injection.At 3 and 5 days after mating.
Two weeks before her due date she just looked a little fat but a friend said no she cant be you had an injection done, off to the vet's for a scan, just to be sure he said no but i wanted a scan, 6 puppies showed up.
She went on to have 12 very heathly puppies with no problems !!!!!!!!

anworth, thank you for your reply regarding which injections was used xx

i have just been reading through my thread again so that i can get to grips what is going on here with my bitch!

we are due at the vets tomorrow, all the 'morden' vets will not do the spay for us, so we are going in to chat with their 'old fashioned' vet that will tell us the pro and cons of having her spayed now and whether he will actually do it for us.

i feel so stupid that this accident has happened, and i feel i am having to rush into spaying her, this is my worst nightmare!
i keep thinking of the outcome of spaying, not only being a danger to her at this time of the season, but the fact that spaying can cause dull coat, gain weight etc, i know as my other bitch had to have an emergency spay last year as she had severe pyometra, she now has a dull coat, maults like a walking hay stack and has become fat even though i have controled her diet.
oh dear, i hope this all becomes clearer tomorrow, my poor girl.

Bitches that are spayed in rescue centres are often spayed at the wrong time in their cycles, and could even be pregnant, they don't wait several months to do it.

Well, after a very long discussion with the 'old fashioned' vet this is our game plan.

We discussed spaying, she is a fit and healthy girl but still in the last stage of season so although the vet said she would do the spaying, the risks in our own opinion was too high at this stage and we felt that we would be rushing into the decision.
Then we discussed the injection, again another risk not only with the side affects, but also the percentage of not working resulting in a pregnancy with possible deformed pups and c section for my girl.

So, still no clearer of what to do, however our vet has agreed that we can wait a few more weeks then have her scanned to see if there is a pregnancy, then we will decide what to do next, this is so hard trying to know what the right plus best thing to do is!

The vet was very understanding, and really explained all our options in deep detail, as I asked her to.
so that is it, we wait,,,,,,,

Keep your fingers crossed now that she is not in pup...of course if you really wanted this litter she wouldn't be, but because you don't....well S*ds law will be at work????
Fingers and toes crossed for you here with us all Gemini, your doing the best you can in the circumstances.
Aileen and the girlies xxx

The good thing is that Alizin can be used to abort a pregnqancy up to 42 days so if you have a scan at say 30 days and she manages to get in whelp it can still be sorted and she can then be spayed after at the normal stage.

We had a scare some years back - neighbors dog (a staffy) jumped through a window - long story. We didn't see a tie, just found them both in the back garden. I didn't know if she was pregnant or not. I was going to spay at some point anyway.

Discussed with the vets about what to do and he said to wait until 5 weeks into the "pregnancy" then spay.

We did what he suggested - no side effects at all - got rid on an unwanted pregnancy (she was pregnant) and spayed aswell. (Next door agreed to neuter his dog also)

Could you not go for this sort of option? Perhaps a scan before the spay to double check?
Was good for us.

HTH x

Then we discussed the injection, again another risk not only with the side affects, but also the percentage of not working resulting in a pregnancy with possible deformed pups and c section for my girl.


Be interested to know what % of failure rate your vet advised , it is very very low.  If your quite happy for her to be spayed then why not go for the injection?  It is very very rare it doesn't word.

I used Alizan at 4 weeks the only horrible side effect of using it later was she did pass the feotous (I think I have spelt that wrong) and did go through a labour of sorts for a couple of hours.  She had no side effects and went on to have another healthy litter.  Horrible decision and not very nice for the bitch however better that than a unwanted pregnancy.  In our case the mating was on day 5 or 6 so the vet didnt think it would have taken.