Hi,

I wander if any GR breeders or owners could give me some info.  I know a lady who has just had her Goldie hip scored with the aim of breeding from her lovely girl.  She has also had her eyes done.  She was delighted with the results of the hip score that came back at 8:8 which I thought would be borderline.  She said that the breed average was about 30 and had been told this by various people apparently including her breeding mentor who bred her girl.  I thought the breed average was 18?  When she said 30 I thought maybe she meant the combined score between dam and sire shouldn't exceed 30 but she said no that was just for one. Even 30 combined to me seems high as how is the health of goldies hips to be improved unless dogs with hip scores well below the breed average are bred from.

It's a topic that I find hard to be impartial about having lost a little rescue girl at just a year old due to the extent of her dysplasia due at least in part to bad breeding.  I've printed off some info for her, I just wandered if anybody experienced in the breed on here could offer any information on the breed average scores, what would be considered a good score to breed from for the dam alone and also for dam and sire combined?

Many thanks,

Karen

The average is definitely 18, see official BVA list here:
http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Breed_Mean_Scores_-2008.pdf
8/8 should not be a problem though -it's under. I'd say elbows should be done too tough!

Oh and forgot to say -you never combine both parents' score. It's each one that should be breed average or ideally less.

Breed average is definitely lower than 30!!

http://www.bva.co.uk/public/documents/Breed_Mean_Scores_-2008.pdf

The breed mean score is hard to read off that without printing it out, but it looks like 18.

Munrogirl you just click on the plus to increase the pagesize up to 100 %. :)

Breed average at the moment stands at 18, that is both hips combined. The figures 8/8 are equal on both sides which is good, I was told years ago that yes look at breed average but make sure that either side isn't 3 digits higher (if that makes sense) eg: 17/2 would not be good where as 9/9 is better. Elbows are important also to echo Mariannes post, ideally 0 or poss 1 but not 2 or 3

I thought that if sides were unequal, eg our oldest girl is 15-3, that it is likely to be environmental rather than hereditory.

Could be either really but most possibly due to an accident,twist or injury, was just repeating what I was advised many years ago about variations in either side. In a perfect world you would want as near to equal on either side but hips aren't the be all and end all and you would look at the whole package, I am in no way advocating breeding from something with high hips but generally saying that if you had a high end  bms score or an unequal score other factors need to be taken into consideration before loosing a dog or bitch from the gene pool

That is certainly my understanding from Malcolm Willis as the hereditary aspect of HD is a bilateral and you would not expect more than about 3 points difference, except from environmental factors.

Certainly this was the advice given to a friend of mine whop had two litter sister champions, one scored something like 3/4 and the other something like 3/18, and the advice was that the higher one would be fine to be bred from.

Yes, one of my girls has a score of 4:13. She broke her leg as a 13 week old pup and her litter sister came back as a 3:3. I have had 2 litters from her and she has produced a 3:5 and a 3:3. I know that her score was environmental and was quite happy to breed from her. I would not be scared to breed from the bitch in question but I would definitely use a lower dog and would really have preferred her elbows to be done as we need to start addressing elbow problems in the breed.

Hi,

Thanks for info.  I've already asked her if she was having elbows done too but she didn't feel it necessary, I think because her mentor didn't feel it necessary which along with seemingly other mis-information is a bit worrying.  However I don't know this lady well and it's not really any of my business, I just wanted to be able to pass on some info so that she would maybe realise that she can't rely entirely on other peoples information to be correct.  Thans again.

Yes, I have heard that old chestnut, 'I don't need to do elbows because I don't have a problem in my line'. My answer to that is 'prove it'. The Vet that does my dogs hips and elbows was delighted when my boy was booked in for both. He reckons there is more of a problem with elbows in Goldens than there are with hips now.

I would not be scared to breed from the bitch in question but I would definitely use a lower dog and would really have preferred her elbows to be done as we need to start addressing elbow problems in the breed.

That was what I meant by combining dam and sire scores really not that the scores should be counted togther but that should a lower score for the sire be used making an overall better hip score, didn't word it very well.