Can anyone help please?

Every few weeks Oscar starts to smell really bad. It's not a normal doggy smell but an offensive disgusting smell. It gets so bad we can't stand to have him in the living room with us in the evening! :-(

In the past I have always booked him in with the groomers and he comes back smelling lovely and the offensive smell disappears for a few weeks. Just recently I have decided not to visit the groomers so often as due to the cost and the fact that I quite like the shaggy look :-) but the smell soon came back. This time I took him to the vet who found that his anal glands were full, so she emptied them and the smell disappeared. She said that if the smell returned it would be his glands again and to bring him back. She also said they should empty on their own, but sometimes they don't if the stools are soft, and that if it happens regularly to find a food with a higher fibre content. That was a fortnight ago and the smell is back.

The problem is that Oscar always has soft stools. They start of normal, at the beginning of the day, but get softer each time he empties his bowels. He does about 8 poo's on an average walk, sometimes more, and he's always been like that. By the end of a walk they are only small and also very soft/runny. They used to have blood in sometimes too but this has stopped since he's been on his current food, Gusto. I'm thinking about adding fibre to his food (brown rice?) to see if that helps but I'm also thinking about asking the vet about removing his anal glands. I don't want to have to visit the vet every couple of weeks to empty his anal glands. What else can I do?

Adding bran and brown rice to the diet can certainly help and is worth trying. Removal of the glands can (but doesn't always) lead to incontinence if the nerves are accidentally damaged. You could always get the vet to show you how to empty them yourself, to save a vet visit each time.

Thanks JG :-)
I'm not sure I could go down the gland removal route if incontinence is a risk. I'll try the bran and brown rice first. Any idea how much I should add? I'd imagine just around half a teacup full. Would that be about right?

> I'd imagine just around half a teacup full.

Maybe half a teacup if you are using brown rice but I have never tried that one.  With bran, nothing like as much, just a teaspoon on each meal if twice a day of a couple on a single meal, maybe increasing a little if needed.  Personally, I would just be looking for a complete with a higher level of fibre.  My dogs have always steered clear of the problem on a diet of at least 3% fibre but I guess if you have been juggling foods already to suit you might want to stop there.

Thanks Isabel.

> With bran, nothing like as much, just a teaspoon on each meal

Eeek! I'm glad I asked.

The food he's on at the moment is 3% fibre. Are there foods available with a higher percentage of fibre?

I have tried quite a few brands of dried food over the years, but not for some time, and I didn't really consider the fibre content when looking at other foods. I'll definiately look into it again.

One of my dogs has "issues" with her anal glands.  After years of using wheat bran for added fibre I switched to oat bran and found it to be far more effective for her.    (Abby is a Cairn so I only add a level desert spoon to her dry food in the morning and then moisten it with a bit of warm water. ) 

However - if your dog is pooing as much as you say then I'd suggest a switch to a different brand of food entirely.   It may be that he is not tolerating one or more of the ingredients well.    Eight or more poops on an average walk is the sign of something being amiss with his digestive system.   Some it may just be the way his system works, but some if might also be diet related.

BTW - poos are harder in the morning because they have sat in the body longer and more of the water has been reabsorbed. 

> I switched to oat bran and found it to be far more effective for her

Thats interesting.  I shall remember that or try to :-)

> Eight or more poops on an average walk is the sign of something being amiss with his digestive system.   Some it may just be the way his system works, but some if might also be diet related.
>

Thanks Cairnmania.
I think you're right and I'm going to have to try him on some other foods. I'm not really sure where to start though and I really regret not making a note of how he was on different brands previously. Now I can't really remember what he's had before and how he was on each one.  I only really stuck with the Gusto because he put on weight with it and, initially, he did poo less.

How long do you try each food for before deciding if it suits? And over how many days should you make the switch? I think previously I've done it over 4 or 5 days but I'm wondering if it should be more?

Thanks again.

Sorry....back again!

just found this from another thread.....

> You can buy a 800 gram bag of lamb mince in Tesco for £1.68 , a bag of potatoes and a bag of frozen veg. All blended together for provide an excellent dinner for her.  A breed of your size would get 2-3 days out of this mixture. Even say 2 days that would be approx £1 per day !!!!!!!!!!!!! cheaper than your complete food and a guaranteed safe diet if as you say she is alergic to everything else.

Do you think this could be worth a try?

I also found this on the Burns website...

> Some veterinary surgeons recommend the removal of troublesome anal glands, but removing the anal glands surgically is akin to a household doing away with its dustbins and keeping the household rubbish under the bed!

> Anal gland problems are usually blamed on lack of roughage (fibre) in the diet but in fact the problem tends to be seen most in dogs fed on indigestible foods which produce bulky faeces anyway.

> In fact, if the anal glands fill up and cause trouble it is possibly due to low-quality diets which create an excess of waste matter in the system. It is also possible that anal gland disorder can be due to dietary intolerance.

So I think finding the right food could be key to solving this.

Switch from old food to new food gradually over a week to 10 days. 

To see if switching diet really makes a difference you need to give the new diet a try for at least a month.

In terms of which foods to try, I would pick one which is as far away in terms of ingredients from his current or previously tried foods as possible.  So I would be inclined to use a food with no rice or wheat.   And one with a less common source of protein, like fish.   Any treats also need to comply with the new regime.

BTW, Abby's digestive system works very quickly too.  She poos more often than my other dog; both are Cairns and fed exactly the same thing at the same times.   Her record was 4 poos in a 25 minute walk.  And, they were always soft.  However, that was when I was feeding her the rubbish food used by her breeder (Purina Puppy Chow).  Things did not improve a great deal when I switched her to Science Diet; a more expensive but IMO now not the best choice in foods either.   She got a lot better when I switched to Arden Grange.  Poos much less frequently and more firm.  That said, only about 50% of my dog's diet is manufactured dog food, so even at that level diet can have a pretty major impact.   Anal glands were still an issue, even though I was adding wheat bran.  As said earlier, I switched to oat bran and she didn't show any signs of problems for nearly 6 months; which is amazing.   Could be she has a slight intolerance to wheat, although there is no other reason for me to believe that's the case.

Thanks for your reply. :-)

Can I please ask another question....unfortunately, the more I'm looking into foods, the more confused I'm getting.

You say only 50% of your dog's diet is manufactured - what else do you feed?  I was thinking of feeding home cooked food and using a good dry food as a mixer, 1) to keep costs down and 2) to keep the meals interesting and varied.

Would that work? Would the home cooked food unbalance the dry food? And is it necessary to provide variety?

Sorry for all the questions. Thanks in advance :-)

Besides the Arden Grange dog food my dogs get for their breakfasts, whatever my husband and I eat for our evening meal is on their menu as well, as long as it is healthy for them (so no onions, foods high in fat, or the like).  Any meat or fish we have in the evening they get; as well as any of the veg or potatoes.  My two do not have food allergies, so I will also give them small amounts of pasta (wheat) or rice.  No junk food, ever.  My dogs are small so it's not a bother and I rarely cook anything especially for them.  They get what would otherwise be small amounts of leftovers or would end up in the rubbish bin because it's too small an amount to keep.  On the rare ocassions when I cook especially for them it's most likely to be an egg or I'll open a can of Pilchards in tomato sauce.

On "balance" - I balance their diets better than I do my own!   They get a dog multivitamin every day and a couple of times a week I give them a bit of extra calcium (I crush a portion of a calcium tablet from Holland and Barret).  I expect neither the vitamn or extra calcium is necessary - but it makes me feel good anyway. :-)  The only imbalance I worry about is calcium because I do not give them raw bones; which is the reason for the bit of extra calcium.

IMO the whole notion that you are going to "unbalance" a dry complete is based on the assumption that we're all too ignorant to figure out how to give our dogs a complete and healthy diet on our own.  Plus, it works for the dog food companies to try and convince us we should only feed dog food.  We can be trusted to feed ourselves and our families a balanced diet without resorting to a "complete" diet ourselves in a box or can - but somehow that's impossible for dogs?  I don't think so.

You could unbalance a package complete diet if, for example, you added a load of extra carbs and no proteins, or vice versa.   Feeding dogs a complete manufactured dog food with complete raw or cooked homemade diet keeps everything in balance.

In terms of variety, I have always fed my dogs a variety of food.  I think it helps insure that their diet is balanced and healthy.  And at least in my experience, if that's the way you start off with them it makes them less picky and not more picky about what they eat.  

Thank you Cairnmania :-) I really appreciate the time you've taken to reply.

What you've said about unbalancing a food makes perfect sense....so I'm going to try it. I'm going to find a good food without wheat as you've suggested and his breakfast will be wheat free too - initially anyway. When I picked him up as a puppy he was being fed weetabix and milk for breakfast (!) and I've read elsewhere on this site that that can cause a wheat intolerance and I'm wondering if this could be his problem. He also has quite dry flaky skin which I always put down to him swimming - but now I think it could be his food too. Fingers crossed......

Thanks again :-)

My puppy was fed weetabix and milk and guess what - he's gluten intolerant :-)   Fingers crossed but he is improving though

Hi Fred's Mum :-) It may have been one of your posts that I read on here.
Can I ask how you found out about the intolerance? Was it just what you noticed yourself or is there an intolerance test of some kind?
Can I also ask what you feed your pup now?
Thanks :-)

I found out as he had horrendous diarrhea pretty much the day after i brought him home from the breeders.
I worked on a process of elimination (along with my fantastic vet) and seeing what foods upset him.
I now feed him on a gluten free kibble from Oscars. He does get treats but when buying packets i have to check that they are gluten free...in Tesco i just chuck food into the basket for myself but when buying food for Freddie i have to stand and inspect the packet for hours to check its ok :-) ;-) :-)
Ive slowly inroduced food and he is not as bad now with gluten although i do avoid it for obvious reasons. They dont have quite the same catastrophic effects as before but i dont want to risk it!
I have no idea if there are intolerence tests for pups. My process worked fine but if you had a dog with severe allergies i imagine it would be harder.

Thank you :-)

Oscars food is one I've been looking at as my neighbours dog has it and looks good on it. It's nice that it's delivered as well.

How about trying Oatabix instead of the Weetabix to help add fibre?

Hi Anndee :-)
I think you may have misunderstood. I was wondering if his breeder giving him weetabix had caused a wheat intolerance. I haven't been giving him weetabix. Thank you anyway :-)
I'm just in the process of changing him to a JWB food - which so far he seems to be enjoying. The smell had disappeared but seems to be back again this evening. I'll see what happens over the next few weeks.

I was told gratted carrot helps
did help mine
or i just give them a carrot

To anyone who might be interested.....
He has been on solely JWB for a week now.....and so far (fingers crossed) I'm :-) :-) :-)
The smell has gone and he smells better generally, his coat is softer and has lost the greasy sheen, his stools are consistently firm and there is much less of it, and even his breath seems a little sweeter. He has lost a little bit of weight but I'm not too worried as a few people have commented on how well he's looking. So thank you all for your help :-)

Hi all,

My pup also had anal gland problem and unfortunately had to have them emptied and have antibiotics. Vet told us that some dogs are more prone to this than others so will be keeping an eye out in the future.
in response to the fibre content in their food i wonder how my pup will fare today as he managed to escape from his secure (so i thought!) part of the kitchen whilst i was at work and has consumed at least 7 weetabix, 1/4 box of cheerios and a few helpings of porridge oats and chocolate ready brek!!  I came home to a very thirsty english setter and one very messy kitchen!! needless to say i decided not to give him any lunch!! let's hope he doesn't suffer too much from all the additional fibre!!

>let's hope he doesn't suffer too much from all the additional fibre!!

Let's also hope that the chocolate doesn't have a bad effect on him either.

I heard of a lab that did this with a box of cereal and died of bloat.  So watch him carefully!

Still not sure how to tell if he had bloat and how quickly it would happen after this afternoon's binge. As I mentioned before I haven't given him any lunch or treats at all since but he did have dinner at 7. he's been lead walked in garden quite a few times as he had an active afternoon yesterday and we knew he'd be tired today anyway.