Help!  I have a litter of 10 (5 dog & 5 bitch) nearly 7 week old puppies.  I have just had an experienced friend come and give me some advice on which bitch puppy to keep as a potential show puppy.  I am devastated to hear that there aren't any! It is this bitches last litter and I was desperate to keep a daughter of hers as her temperament and character is so special.  One puppy is not far off but do I risk keeping her and the 'fault' not rectifying itself or be very brave and let them all go?
I would appreciate some advice - at the moment my heart is ruling my head whenI know it should be the other way round.

I know you cant mention breed, as its against TOS, but, I would say, it would depend how major the fault is.  If it is something that can be outweighed by a good quality, then I would risk it. 

for example (I am gonna use my breed, so it kinda flows)
If I had a dog that had a not so great tail set, but had awesome movement, I would keep it. 

I dont know if its the same in the UK, but here, everything is broken down into what each part of the body is worth.  So for example
Movement: 30 points
Head: 10 points
and so on.  So if the fault is something that is worth very little in the spectrum, then I would keep the pup and hope that it is something that it can grow out of, or change.  (Depending on the fault)

But if it was major faults (like movement being wrong) then its sad to say, but they would all go to pet homes. 

Well...we all know there is no such thing as the perfect dog !! They all have their "faults" so it would depend on how bad this fault is , personally I would not write off an entire litter at 7 weeks !! This is just one persons opinion , others might not agree with them , look at how we all go to shows where one judge loves our dog and then at the next show another judge chucks the same dog out without so much as a second glance. Follow your instincts , if the "fault" was so glaring , wouldn't you have noticed it yourself !!

> Follow your instincts , if the "fault" was so glaring , wouldn't you have noticed it yourself !!

and depending on what the fault is it can be worked on (ear taping etc). at the end of the day shes going to be your pet first and foremost- though i appreciate how much you'll have wanted a show girl- if you really want a pup from your girl you need to pick and hope.

i'm sure you'll enjoy her either way :)

My daughter and I went over them all on Sunday with a critical eye and we were surprised and the lack of 'something special' that we had hoped for.  We had picked out one bitch we thought was a possible but today it was pointed out to us that her front feet are not straight and this does show in her movement.  There is a chance it may correct itself/improve so will keep a close eye on it before making the final decision.  Main problem with others is length of neck - which again can be quite a glaring fault!

Hard to say with out knowing the breed, or even if I did how lines develop. Necks can come and feet straighten. How experienced (and successful) is your friend? If the best isnt good enough then dont keep it, unless you have space for a passenger.

Development in puppies is notoriously difficult to predict as so many things can change and be breed specific eg markings etc.... but an experienced (and good) puppy picker can tell quality when they see it.
A pup with that undefinable 'something' will stand away from the litter and would make it worth the gamble of running on a pup with a slight fault.
I would think that an other couple of opinions may clear things up for you.

She is very experienced and shows successfully and I do trust her opinion - which must count for a great deal.  This puppy would take me up to my maximum number to keep here comfortably so that is a consideration too.

toolz - I agree that you should be able to tell a pup with 'something' and none of these have.  She looked at my previous litter from this bitch and her excitement when she found a 'quality' male puppy was so obvious - today there was nothing like it - think that really says it all.
Another opinion being sought from another experienced person within the breed.  As previously mentioned - when my daughter and I went over them on Sunday - we were not overwhelmed by any of them and as this litter was going to be for my 'special one' even I am surprised I couldn't find too much to praise about them.  Very unfortunate - but life is sometimes like that!

> Very unfortunate - but life is sometimes like that!

Too true !
I went to see a litter for someone recently and had to suggest that she sell them all. Nothing very wrong but all very ordinary... it's such a terrible thing to have to say when all that time and planning has gone into producing a litter. I suppose it depends where you are in your breeding/showing plans. Some would be happy to just produce a bitch :-) but at £24 a class at ch shows, no one can afford to just 'take part' any more.

have you chatted to the studs owner about who their pups develop? for example if they tend to have dodgy feet that they grow out of? i assume your girl didn't have them or you'd remember but if you bought her rather than bred her maybe check with her breeder to if its something that crops up in the line and grows out of the pups

today it was pointed out to us that her front feet are not straight and this does show in her movement.

I wonder, can you make the feet straight?  Like actually put them straight???

Cher, sometimes does an east to west thing with her front feet.  Its about pure laziness on her part, not wanting to have to move from side to side if something beside her catches her eyes.  But when I say "stack" she corrects her feet.  And if she is just standing around the house, 9/10 she has straight feet.  But outside, its reverse, 9/10 she has crocked feet.

When I first saw it, I had talked to her breeder about it.  She told me, that training her to have her feet straight will correct the issue, and that pins like to cut corners whenever they can.  Hense the East/West feet. 

Is the person who assessed your litter experienced in assessing pups of the same breeding/lines?   Different lines develop at differing rates and this may make a huge difference ;)

eg. (and I'll talk about my last litter as I too wanted a bitch to show) I had two bitches, the differences were 'nit-picking' I had to mark them to tell them apart, one of the bitches just kept catching my eye, but the other one seemed to be the better (marginally) she was also the bigger bitch.  In the end I took photos and was able to 'size up' the smaller bitch and suddenly they were even more alike, the smaller one was just as 'nice' and looking at the finer points was better, altogether she was more 'balanced'.  She wasn't as obviously 'pretty' tho ;) however she was more typical in look, if rather plain looking compared to the other one (think Disney!)   I preferred the character of the smaller bitch too, less bolshy and pushy, more 'thoughtful' and less worried by change.  Several breeder friends were invited to choose their preference (without consulting ;) )  - We all picked the smaller bitch!   She's 5 months now and I'm thrilled with her and she's a lovely little mover.  I still don't know if she'll ever win any prizes, that depends on how she develops, what judges we get and who she's up against, but I'm happy with her and the way she's developing :-D

I was told that although 6-7 weeks is the best time to choose most pups in our breed, sometimes leaving it a week or two later or even longer if poss, will help you see that certain something.   I would think this holds true for most breeds

I know you can't state the breed, but are you able to state the fault? 

I know you can't state the breed, but are you able to state the fault?

She said the fault were the front feet not being straight. And the others its the length of neck.   Just to clarify for you Dill

As others have mentioned, you need more than one opinion.  Within every breed of dog, exhibitor breeders have different ideas on what faults they can live with and what they cannot.

Fingers crossed for you.

Definitely you need more than one opinion. If the girl you like is just a bit loose or wide at the front, exercise once she's old enough to run around, and road walking once she's old enough for that will help to some extent. Also it depends just how fantastic a show dog you are hoping for - as long as her legs aren't hopeless and her movement is 'ok', you can still get placed at shows. My girl has a plain doggy head and is a bit big for the breed, she'd never go to Crufts, but that doesn't mean we haven't had a lot of good placings at open shows and companion shows, including some BOB!

I wouldn,t write her of pureley because of her feet.
I remember when I first started training Inga and looking at her feet they apeared to be at ten to two,even though she was never shown a lot she had absoluteley sound true movement as she grew her feet came right and if you,d seen her tracks in mud or snow they were as straight as tramlines.
I,d keep her a bit longer run her on and see what happens if your not in a rush  many an ugly duckling has turned into a swan.

Crespin
I thought there might actually be a really bad fault ;) the 'faults' stated can be because a pup is young, these things can be rectified with growth and exercise - unless the necks are really bad ;)

Really pups need to be assessed as pups, they aren't going to have the proportions of adults, there may be hints of what you're looking for, but no more.  This is where someone who knows the breeding and how the line develops is a great asset when choosing a pup. 

I have a dog here who was passed over as a show dog as there was a puppy fault which may or may not have rectified, it was something often seen in pups ;)  Said dog is now a champion, qualified for Crufts first time out, CC and BOB second time out with a Breed specialist and was shown in only 11 Ch shows! - not bad for a throw-out :-D

How did the pup this person picked out of the last litter turn out? If she was spot on then she is probably likely to be right now. I think if you are not sure and keeping one would take you to your max then sell them all.

babz - She was spot on last time - and this pup would realistically take me up to my maximum number.  I haven't found a home for the pup yet and will be standing her daily to see if there is any liklihood of it sorting itself.

Will not keeping her end your line or do you have a half sister or Mums sister still of breeding age.

If the former I would keep her and when breeding from her make sure you choose a stud who does not have the fault in his line.  Often breeders end up having to keep a bitch for the liens even if it doesn't come up to expectations, it is taking one step back hoping to move forward in the next generation.

I have found myself in a similar situation, the bitch I kept for the bloodlines has not come up to scratch so I am keeping a up from her Mums second litter, which takes me to my maximum. 

I now won't be able to keep another pup from either bitch (20 months and baby pup) until time takes my oldest who is only 11 years old, that may be another 5 years.

This means I will be a long time without a real show dog if pup doesn't make the grade, as my two show girls are 5 and 9.

I have a full sister - 15 months younger who has produced some nice pups in her time - I do have 2 of her daughters from seperate litters - one in particular is very nice indeed.  She could possibly have one more litter - will need to give it some serious thought re potential stud. 

Then I would let the pups go as you can get the same breeding back another way.