Hi all

Well I have read the thread below this with interest and would be glad of your comments on my situation.

I have just retired from work and already have two dogs who I had as adults.  One was a rescue dog who needed a bit of housetraining but soon got the message.  On Sunday I acquired a sheltie pup who I have called Isla and she has just turned 12 weeks  old.  She is my "reward" for slogging away full time at work all these years and I would like to do some obedience/showing with her if poss.  I got her from a very good breeder and she has a fabulous temperament and she is as bright as a button apart from ....... toilet issues.  The breeder said she was paper trained and for the first day or two she seemed to wee on it but things seem to have gone downhill.  At night she sleeps happly in a crate in our bedroom but usually wakes us about 5 or 6am.  By that time she has usually both weed and pooed .  I put paper one end of the crate - maybe I shouldn't?  But what a mess if I didn't.  In the day sometimes  I put her in a puppy pen I have put up in the sitting room if I can't supervise her - she doesn't seem to mind this.  Occasionally she wees on the paper in there but not usually.

Like the lady in the other thread I am spending hours with her out in the garden quite often with no result and then five minutes later there is a poo in the house.  She wees more often in the garden than poos.  In my house unfortunately there is carpet everywhere  apart from the kitchen. So I have started to confine her to the kitchen with access to the garden.  However it is very difficult to shut her in there away from the other dogs and me (unless I am in here like now on the computer (down one end of my long kitchen).  At the moment she is asleep in her bed beside me.  As soon as she gets the chance of going into the rest of the house she disappears - she is like quick silver - and lo and behold I smell the smell and find another poo.  I am spending ages in the garden with her to no avail and have achieved very little in the way of housework or doing nicer things with Isla than this wretched housetraining.  In a word we are not moving forward!!  I have got newpaper by every door but she seems to be going backward.  She is totally adorable but until I get her housetrained I can't get on with my life or hers!!

What should I do??  She gets on well with the other dogs - oh and the other thing is she doesn't seem to poo in the same place twice, it is random.  Just seems to have no idea about the great outside!

Snowflake

Snowflake, you will get a lot of good advice on here from people who've had many dogs.  But as we were going through this with a young puppy exactly a year ago it is still fairly fresh in my mind.  When I look back it seems as though that stage just flashed by but in reality it takes much longer than one would hope to get a reliable dog indoors!  It's a difficult time too because it's so wet at the moment.  Oddly enough I recall that those of us with dogs seemed to get a faster response time outside whilst the bitches would do exactly what yours is doing and take ages, if at all.

One piece of advice that I didn't need, as mine was quite regular, was to remove any poo from indoors and place it in the garden near where you'd like her to go.  You can pick it up again quite promptly but the scent may trigger her response in this place again.  It seems this is why a very good biological cleaner is important indoors.  Take her on a lead if necessary to this place and just stand there - take care not to engage in anything interesting til she's done.  When she's finished have a short play session as a reward as well as praise and a treat

You are doing the right thing to enclose her in a safer area (try a baby gate too) whilst you get this sorted, and you may just need to find activities to do in her room so that she is not so cut off from you.  You may also find your kitchen has never been so clean, your emails up to date, and the laundry all done immediately!!  Every time my pup woke up and stumbled across to see me I'd rush the poor boy outside for a wee come rain or shine, it paid off but I did feel a bit mean.  It sounds a bit daft but it can help to make a note of her timings.  All the puppy books say go outside immediately after eating but week by week we found that he could 'hold' a bit longer and it was better to wait a while so that we could guarantee success outside.  We used a trigger word and lavish praise.

A little regression is not uncommon, just as you think they've learnt something you discover they're not ready but that's normal.  Just hold your nerve for a while and give this time over to her.  Welcome the sleep deprivation, the midnight treks into the garden, the early mornings, the snail eating, the smell of cleaning fluid - it really doesn't last too long and the next thing you know they're a teenager!!

If it was me I would stop using the paper indoors. I know some people do paper train their dogs but it can be confusing for some. On the one hand you are telling them that it is ok to toilet indoors - I realise the idea is that they only go on the paper but that can be very hit and miss as you are currently experiencing - but on the other hand you are trying to stop them going indoors and wanting them to go outside. It may just be that your puppy has become confused and is getting mixed messages as to where is acceptable and where isn't.

Persevere - you will get there :)

Hi Snowflake,

I'm sure you are cleaning thoroughly but because of the carpet this may not be quite thoroughly enough. I would recommend a good scrub with normal washing detergent, rinsed with cold water, followed up by a dab of surgical spirit -this breaks down urine and faecal enzymes and the tell tale smell that leads pups to soil again.

Unfortunately this must be done each and every time and wreaks havoc on ones hands- do try to wear gloves- not to mention the carpets. You might consider, for now, putting down a small tarpaulin in key areas like your bedroom. This will help with potential damage to carpets.

I would also advise setting your alarm to say 4.30, and seeing if you can get her down and outside before she performs in the crate. If she does it outside it goes without saying that she gets the treat of all treats. With any luck you can slowly move the time you wake up bit by bit. The treat has to be so wonderful that she makes the association with going outside.

Aside from this, use baby gates to limit her access to the rest of the house.

Another thought is does she join the other dogs when they go, and could you make a point of praising them so she might join in? Anything to make her think going outside it great.

Ghastly for you, I know, you'll be sleep deprived as well as having ruined hands. Chances are you've thought of all this already, but thought I'd give some thoughts anyhow.

My enduring memory with all the pups I've had is what amounts to dermatitis from all the cleaning afterwards.

By the way, Shelties are a fabulous breed, so clever. I had one as a kid and I'm sure Isla will bring you much joy

Hi...yes i remember it well,standing outside waiting for pup to go for a wee, then only to come in and find they were doing it on the carpet or newspaper as it was then. but my last 2 pups i found very easy to train with the new trainer pads sqaures that you can buy at PAH or pet shops,they are waterproof and save alot of mess, moving them nearer the back door every day. Good Luck.

You need to be one step ahead of your pup and remember as soon as pup wakes up it will need a wee so before it can walk just a few steps whiz it out to the garden and stay with it, when it goes praise using words like clever girl.  Always use the same words when they perform as it will help you get them to go on command later in life.  I wouldn't use the words good girl as that gets confusing when you praise them for other things.
Also remember when your pup has a play they will want to go for another wee so straight back out to the garden and stay there with pup until she has been.
After eating pup will need to poo so out you go.  if you see pup sniffing and circling between these times whiz straight out as pup needs a poo.
I personally have never used pens etc as I like the pup where i can see it at all times so there is no chance of a mistake.  I try to have the back door open at all times in the early days too so pup can get out if it wishes.
Be prepared to rush out in rain and wind and to get very wet when you see pup needing to go as you don't have a second to spare.
If you put yourself through this for a couple of weeks you won't have another problem and pup will soon be housetrained.
Just remember everytime pup goes in house because you were not watching closely enough is a little set back as pup must get into the habit of going in the right place.
If you have an accident indoors, don't tell pup off in fact don't even speak to pup, turn your back on it and ignore it and clean it up without a word, dogs hate being ignored, but when they go outside go overboard with the fuss and praise using your chosen words.

Well things may just be improving ....

Last night we had to go out.  Previously I have not left her for more than about an hour and only twice  (in her puppy pen which is large).  However last night we had to go out and leave her for two hours.  We couldn't get her to poo before we sent despite every effort so when we returned there was wee and poo on the paper in the pen although she seemed relaxed and happy in herself.  I gave her a bit of supper - very small as I know I should now cut out the last meal as she is 12 weeks.  After she ate it she went out to garden and did a poo and a wee.

This morning  I awoke about 6.30 before Isla and took her immediately downstairs and into the garden and bingo!! A big wee but no poo.  She came in and I made myself a coffee and had a chat to her as I do. Then she nipped outside and did a big poo. Yay!  I have to say since I had her last Sunday I have been on my own coping with her and the two other dogs as hubby works huge long hours in London.  However he got home at a reasonable hour last night and of course it is now the weekend so I think having an extra pair of hands helps.  Also my Westie who is 9 has been very jealous and miserable which hasn't helped and the Jack Russell x won't let poor Isla play with a toy without pinching it so the whole week has been very stressful!!  Maybe easier with just a pup and no other dogs?  Although I do think she has settled so happily because she likes the company of the other two dogs - she was used to living with other sheltie puppies and adults at the breeder's after all.

Anyway perhaps 12 hours have passed and I haven't had a wee or poo on the carpet so it has to be a move in the right direction!  Aside from all this Isla is a complete delight - not only is she beautiful but her nature is so loving (good job given the hard work entailed...)

Will keep you posted and at least I know I am not alone!

Snowflake