There's another dog programme on ITV1 at 9pm tonight, which looks as though it'll be more interesting and possibly more balanced than the last one. At least it's being done by someone who actually likes dogs!

Oooo I didnt hear about that one. Will be watching intently!

Hopefully it is more balanced, but lets face it nothing can be worse than the last one.

Think it's more about wild dogs etc. with a bit about "family" ones inbetween.  As you say Martin Clunes definitely seems to adore our four legged friends!

Why do the message topic about the bbc1 program being locked each time?
I thought that encouraged quite an interesting  read. At least it made people recognise there ARE problems that need addressing within pedigree dogs, and got people discussing it. I thought that was the idea of having message boards. I am hoping like everything else in this country our freedom of speech has not now gone too!

they have probably been locked becuase they went so far off the original topic or were going round in circles without being productive or because they were getting too large.  If you have a particular point you want to make about  'problems that need addressing within pedigree dogs', then you can start a topic with that as the theme. 

I already had my say on the other ones, but i was enjoying reading through the others comments and ideas.

Nice for them to do a sensible doggy program.  Maybe ITV are after Crufts :-D
I will be watching along with my mini wolves

Emma

Maybe ITV are after Crufts

:) :) :) :)

it was very good and next week how we have turn dogs to working abiltiys,

Fantastic ......more of this Martin Clunes is so good at what he does.:)

The pedigree dog documentary could only be made by people whom love dogs (Mark Evans clearly loves dogs, another vet was nearly in tears at what she saw being cruelly inflicted on her canine patients) espesh as it focussed on certain breeders and officials whom clearly couldnt love dogs, being as they put their own eugenical, unethical, money making ego before canine welfare.
Martin Clunes was great, his love of dogs was up their with all involved in the making of the Horizon documentary.
Both brilliant shows

Please keep this thread on topic ie for discussion of the Martin Clunes programme. Everyone has already had their chance to have their say on the Pedigree Dogs Exposed documentary.

I so enjoyed the programme tonight on itv. I think MC is such a good guy to talk about the dogs and there ways..loved seeing the dingo's that pup was adorable. Even seeing the working terriers doing their job- I thought was interesting even though killing was involved, things like that aren't shown as people frown on dogs doing what they were breed to do nowadays. Can't wait for next weeks episode.

How great -a POSITIVE programme! :) I found it fascinating to look at the dingoes, they reminded me of my malinois -down to the black markings on the tail! Martin Clunes seemed to enjoy himself SO much as well which made it all so much better.

To be fair the OP had put;

>At least it's being done by someone who actually likes dogs!<

so a response to that is not entirely hyjacking a thread a wrong the direction (?) The poster did go on to comment on the Martin clunes programme (which is more than the more prolific/ serial 'hyjackers' do!!) ;)

Really good & interesting progams & next week is working dogs. :-)

Martin Clunes wouldnt have been the first person who sprung to mind as a dog lover, but he seems a big softy with his three.
Also didnt realise it was a series until i saw next weeks preview.
Werent those wolves beautiful, although i dont think i would like to stick my head between 2 dogs having a tiff let alone 2 wolves

Emma

> To be fair the OP had put;
>
>> At least it's being done by someone who actually likes dogs!<
> so a response to that is not entirely hyjacking a thread a wrong the direction (?)

My request to keep on topic was a general reminder in view of several posts on this thread so far ;-)

Werent those wolves beautiful, although i dont think i would like to stick my head between 2 dogs having a tiff let alone 2 wolves
They were amazing..........the sound they make is magical and that chap who seemed to be part of their pack was well...amazing himself!
To think our pets are what, 95% wolf, genetically, yet all look so very different to each other.

The 'ratters' were great, and the kill was shown in a very 'undramatic' way which was good, although MC made me smile when he said he saw one get away and said nothing ;)

So looking forward to this series. I'm hoping that some 'balance' will be restored showing people all over the world with their wolves/dingos/dogs.

The taxidermy (?) of the dogs although a bit ***spine shivvery**** was wonderful to see all the different breeds, and with some the difference in them from then to now.

Fabulous programme!  I love Martin Clunes in anything, so MC and dogs..........they couldn't lose in my eyes!!  The wolves were amazing but I couldn't look at the terriers 'ratting'. ( no problem with terriers, just hate rats!!! :)  )  I don't  like to see stuffed animals of any kind but I noticed that the taxidermist's name was 'Bruce Fogle'.......any relation to Crufts' 'Ben' I wonder?  :)

we going off to tring to see the taxidermy of dogs,just to how different over the years the type of breed has change.

i thought the wolf man looked like a wolf to long hair bit dirt around the mouth,but a great guy know the wolfs ways for life.

i will say both tv progamme bcc and this one are very good for both side of the story of dog breeding and ability in how we are changing the dogs to work along side us or just be a pet dog,

but the whole picture first is to breed healthy dogs, the wolf or the dingos in wild would die if they had any health problem,we did only saw the healthy one out in a pack hunting and feeding and a young pup on his own suriving,

I enjoyed it. loved seeing that black wolf 'enforcer i think' jumping up at the pen it was just like a dog. Or as he said dogs are just like wolves! Would the role of enforcer/mediator be assigned by alpha or would they somehow naturally develop? Enjoyable programe. Not a fan of the rat shaking! lol

........It seems that Bruce Fogle is Ben's Dad!!  Should have guessed really!  :)  :)

I didn't know that Bruce Fogle did taxidermy.  He used to be a vet and also of course writes books on dogs etc. 

Umm going from saving dogs lives to stuffing them after they are dead :)

I don't think Brude Fogle does do taxidermy...I think he was just there to comment on how breeds have changed over the years due to selective breeding, using the stuffed dogs as illustration of his point. 

>I didn't know that Bruce Fogle did taxidermy.

He doesn't! They were looking at a Victorian collection of stuffed dogs, in Tring.

The museum in Tring where the stuffed dogs were filmed has exhibits over 100 years old. I went a couple of years ago and it is really interesting to see how a large number of breeds have changed. I think it is safe to say that Bruce Fogle was not responsible for the 'stuffing', merely commenting on the changes. I thought the programme was excellent and Martin Clunes was a natural. I look forward the next programme.

Oops.........sorry, thought they said he was the taxidermist!!  :)  Shows what my attention span is like!!  :)

> eugenical

Here is a definition of Eugenics, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics which is a philosophy regarding people not animals.

The very ideas behind Eugenics are in fact those used by any animal breeder using selection, and is what should be happening.  Nothing unethical about choosing the best and healthiest specimens to propagate the next generation, the opposite allowing uncontrolled breeding is actually most unethical, and the main cause of canine misery and suffering around the world.

Just want to add my appreciation of the programme.
Loved it, MC is an okay bloke with no pretentions, made it even better.

Kareen ;)

Bruce Fogle is a vet, has been around for many years -quite often making silly comments about dogs (he once wrote in Dogs Today about considering breeding from one of his Golden bitches despite her having a really bad hip score, as just one example), this time he was comparatively restrained, LOL.

I would rather have Bruce Fogle than his irritating son!!

Great to see dog programmes on TV, but for those who study Serpell and Coppinger on the evolution of our dogs, puts another angle on the fantastic captive wolves .........also that in the wild, free living wolves that travel hundreds of miles to find a mate. So not inbred in small groups at all. Great stuff, always liked MC, even moreso now.

Absolutely wonderful, MC was really into those wolves LOL    He has an obvious rapport with his own dogs too :-D

I knew he'd be a natural for any presenting work at Crufts :-D

I started to panic when Bruce Fogle appeared on screen, thinking it was all about to go pear-shaped, but he was actually quite good :-)

My own little 'wolf pack' loved it too - really got interested at the howling :-D  and our littlest 'wolf' was fascinated by the dingo singing to the piano - I think she's got ambitions to become a singer :-D   Their favourite bit was the ratting - they had to sit to quivering attention for that :-D

Yes an interesting and well made program, I too have been to Tring museum it is an overflow{or used to be} of the natural history in London, 1 blip I noticed I am sure i heard him mention salukis , however he was infact standing in front of one of the 2 very early afghan hounds that are in cases there one is named Shahzada, I  think that was the dog shown, NOT an early Saluki.   http://www.afghan-hound.net/pics/shahzada.jpg    I am only being hyper picky as affies are my breed. and I hope that dingo didn't have to live it's life on the end of a chain as we saw, it was still on a lead when it went inside and howled to the piano. Loved the little terriers making very short work of the rats how very efficient and quick they worked.

YES the second the howling started my Rotty was up, with her quizzy head going from left to right, thought she may join in.....she loved the programme too LOL!!!

great to see a pro dog programme for once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My two dogs plus the little terrier we are looking after for the weekend were too tired to even cock an ear.
A 3 mile walk/run for my boys, a companion show and a little guest was exhausting. They have even declined todays walk!!!!

MC's face when the wolves responded to his calling , scepticism replaced by pure emotion and awe.

Really enjoyed it, though Kwame felt the need to join in with the Dingo on the Piano lol!

It was a lovely programme but did he have to say that we are developing new breeds all the time and then talk to the owner of a goldedoodle? Probably being a bit over sensitive but they are not a new breed!
Eavie

Trouble is as I see it, a few years ago any cross matings be it accidental or on purpose were simply called crossbreeds, which is  exactly what they are of course, even if the mum and dad are pedigrees of different breeds. Now however it's become a more popular money spinner to make up new ridiculous names like sprocker, labradoodle, cockerpoo etc, I know a lady not long ago spent an arm and a leg on a cockerpoo, money which have bought her a  genuine pedigree!! {however I guess thats what she didn't want} Personally I don't believe in calling them "new" breeds.

Loved the programme, thought MC was great, loved his black lab :) , not that I'm biased. Loved the wolves, what a experience that must have been.

> however he was infact standing in front of one of the 2 very early afghan hounds

I thought it looked more like an Afghan than a Saluki - too much body coat for one thing!

But the incredulous awe and delight on MC's face when the wolves howled was a joy to see!

It was a very good program.

The problem i had with it was the idiot with the wolf pack.  I'm sorry, but I find him irritating - he is claiming to have learned so much about wolf pack structure and behaviour, but how can he?  That pack is not a natural pack and never will be.  Firstly, as I understood it from the program, he rescued the entire pack as orphaned pups.  So from day 1, they would not behave as a normal pack (typically made up of breeding parent pair, young pups and older pups).  Secondly, they are captive; they do not have to hunt, so social behaviour from that regard will not be the same as a wild pack.  Thirdly, as they were raised by a human from very young, they will not behave as wild wolves do - unless there were adult wolves not mentioned in the program at the park (and I'm not sure on the likelihood of adults accepting strange pups), they would not have had adult wolves to learn their behaviour from, only Ellis.

If the program wanted to explore true wolf behaviour, they scould have consulted better sources - the ranger, for one, or someone such as David Mech.

>The problem i had with it was the idiot with the wolf pack.

He irritates me too, but in the programme about him that was broadcast about 2 years ago, he only had 3 males in his 'pack' that he'd reared almost since birth - it showed him holding a cub whose eyes were barely opened, yet was howling along with him. Since then it appears he's doubled the size of his pack and, riskily, introduced at least one female.

To be fair to him he's spent a lot of time travelling abroad visiting and studying 'real' wild wolves and is a source of genuine knowledge of canid group behaviour.

I think they were needing to see Wolves up close, thats all. Made fascinating TV, and lovely to watch.

And as Coppinger/Coppinger said...you can't tame the wolf, but you can the Dingo. Hence Coppingers' theory of the dog makes more sense that its a hybrid of Wolf/Jackal/Dingo... Not Darwins theory of the Wolf alone...all superceded by now extinct species altogether.

Loved it!! 

> To be fair to him he's spent a lot of time travelling abroad visiting and studying 'real' wild wolves and is a source of genuine knowledge of canid group behaviour.

If that's true, then to my mind, that makes his claims on studying wolf behaviour with this 'pack' all the more unsound - surely he must realise that he can't take anything he learns from them as an indication of true wolf behaviour?

Damn, damn, damn, I missed it. Does anyone know if and when it is being repeated (pray)?

BTW Newf3, the 'other' programme wasn't anti dog!  It was anti a lot of things, but not dogs :)

Yes go to BBC website and you can watch the whole programme, and its a series.

> Damn, damn, damn, I missed it. Does anyone know if and when it is being repeated (pray)?

You can watch it on ITV Catch-Up : http://www.itv.com/CatchUp/default.html

Do you mean the ITV website ;-) as the program was on ITV :-)