I very rarely judge but is it me, but when someone starts moving around their dog when you are viewing it standing it really bugs me?  I just find it really detracting from the whole dog as the people are running around it supposedly making a better view for me.  I'd rather they just stood still at the front of the dog and if I want to view every angle then I'm the only one who moves around.

Is it just me?  When the owner does this the dog starts moving round with them also. 

Just a bit of a bug bear of mine!  I was judging at a ringcraft class on Wednesday and someone was doing this and I just asked him to stay still as he getting banging into me!!

Hi Diane - could it be they do handling?   As this is a key thing in handling i.e. not to get between dog and judge :)

I am not sure I agree with it being just junior handlers who do it.  My daughter does handling and she knows not to do it in the breed ring although she has got a very annoying habit of thrusting food under her dogs nose when she wont keep her tail up emphasing the point that she is not doing it. :)

Moving around, I always thought, was to hide something.  If you move to the back of the dog (judge that is) and the dogs rear isnt the best, you move the dog, so the judge HAS to focus on the best parts of the dog.

Here, there is a wonderful moving Crested PP.  But you never see it stacked for more than a couple seconds.  The topline sags a bit, so I believe the handler is trying to make sure the judge doesnt see that. 

Hi - actually I only suggested that it might be that they do handling - don't forget there are adult handlers too.  And as at ringcraft might have been practising handling skills - purely a thought that's all :)

My 9 year old came in the breed ring this weekend as I had two dogs in the same class and I told her to make sure she did keep to the golden rule as didn't want her to get muddled in the handling class later - an older handler probably would be able to separate the two as you say.

I have to say it drives me nuts too.  I admire young handlers & their ability to show a dog, but I'm a bit confused as to why they have to do all these patterns etc.  It doesn't happen in the real world & when people fidget in the breed ring it detracts from the dog.  I think moving around your dog whilst being accessed by the breed judge is almost as bad as wearing flappy clothes  when moving your dog. 

I feel sorry for the dog that has to stand there whilst these daft two legged things do a merry dance round 'em ;-)

I have to agree about the silly patterns.  I am sure there is a reason why but the general is up and down a triangle and round in a circle.  And how often have you ever been asked to show a dogs teeth?  The judge does it well in all the breeds I show anyway.

And another thing I am quite curious about is why some breeds have to be stacked ie boxers, rotties, beagles and so forth when they are all quite caple of being free stood. 

Does sound to me like someone has been "handling trained" rather then "showing trained" and therefore has been taught to shadow! :) (However a good handler you would not notice move yet you will see the dog where-ever you look for whatever angle! ;)

>When the owner does this the dog starts moving round with them also.

Now thats just poor training!

However if you are trying to look at the other side of the dog is not not curtious for the handler to move out the way for the judge can see?

>I'm a bit confused as to why they have to do all these patterns

There is a reason for all these patterns! :)  Under MOST judges the judge will be looking for a competant handler who can prove they can handle their dog to it's best advantage HOWEVER I've sure if you have ever watched handling classes there are a number of excellant handlers in all age groups who handle to near perfection so how do you split such handlers?  Well you have to look at how well controlled their are in their pattern work which is where T's L's and send-ons (within circuits) come in.  A good handler will be able to control the dog in all manners while performing such patterns.  Now this is only one school of thought.  There are many idea's people have in handling and some of them only include the triangle, straight up and down and the circuit. :)

As for showing teeth, it's another way to asses the handlers ability to show the teeth to the judge.  A good handler will lift the dogs head so the judge can see the teeth and will turn the head to show each side, while keeping their fingers, thumbs and hair (and heads!) out of the way.  Again some people believe the teeth should be showen in a certain way, in the certain order, some of us don't care aslong as we can see the teeth clearly.

In handling classes the judge should not need to touch the dog or go over the dog, they are purely assinging the handlers ability. :)

I've been asked to show the dog's teeth in the breed ring. And yes I do think the handler should move - but only to a minimum, surely in a handling class they would be just as annoying flapping around bumping into the judge? I did an adult class at a companion show yesterday and after making her cut from the initial large class we were all asked to do Ts or Ls, also we were sent round the ring and the judge sneakily moved outside the circle to see who was watching! :-)

In handling classes the Handler should always move away from the judge, so if the judge approaches the head of the dog on the same side that the H is, the H should move to the rear of dog then wait- if judge continues round dog H move to the opp. side of dog then if necc. continue to head & back to original position. If done this way they should never obstruct or get in way of judge. To help prevent dog from moving round at same time H should slacken the lead so there is no pressure to pull dog round, simple verbal command at the same time.
Re showing of dentition, I personally prefer H to show mouth so that it helps to prevent any infection being passed on, also some judges look as though they are peeling a banana it is no wonder the dog does not like it. To show bite and full dentition is easy, using the thumb and middle finger only, support the jaw with one hand -using other to gently lift flews from just behind the base of nose.Woth practise it can be done quickly clearly and most importantly no stress for the dog.

>bumping into the judge

Thant can't work in shaddowing as you should shadow the judge therefore be opposite - although not quite as you don't want to block other exhibits or over move but thats when it gets more complicated!

Go on, put me out of my misery, what's a "send-on"?

do they still do figure of 8?

Sorry totally gotten away from op's comment of this happening in breed ring, but will have to learn the modern way of JH soon if dh is going to get her way (to be fair, whilst bossy she's very gentle but I think I'll cringe an awful lot ;-)_

Hi Caroline - my thoughts on send on - and might be incorrect but having a go as daughters just started but it where you 'push' the dog in front of you and and slip round the back of the dog to avoid getting between dog and judge - if say the judge is stood on the right side.

Its not easy this handling you know - learning so much whilst my daughters are training! :)

Haven't seen figure of 8 in the ring yet but daughters are prepared!

I thought would hate them handling but so far they haven't done to bad and I'm not too bad stood ringside LOL!  do try to keep quiet!  But I don't make faces at her in the ring (much!)

I don't make faces at her in the ring (much!)

Is this the same Rachel I know with Gordons!!! 

Hehe, at least you're not taking it too seriously like some parents seem to do! 

Jill

I'm 'newish' to the show ring, about 3 seasons now, but I was taught at ringcraft to stand off to the side when the judge starts down the line to show my dog's face in an unobstructed view.
I have been known to stand to the side of my gal with her looking straight on for a variety of reasons - usually because she it too interested in the activity in the other rings or outside it.  This way I can block her vision and get her back on focus, or I can use my body to shield her eyes from the sun.

On the individual viewing, I make sure I'm not where the judge is.  My gal stands rock still as the judge goes over her and I use only my voice to steady her.

My ringcraft judge/s are very keen on the handler not being in the way and using what works the best to show the dog.  That's how they have trained me.  I don't move around per se, just more off to the side.
So far I've not come up in front of a judge who has found it objectionable...at least to my knowledge.

The send-on is where the handlers are asked to do a circuit and the judge will stand to the side of the ring, to keep the dog between judge and handle will involve changing to the other side so on the appraoch to the side the judge is standing you send your dog on infront of you and to the other side, keeping a flowing gait whilst going round the corner.  It's something that can be difficult to get perfectly correct and takes alot of training with the dog as unless trainned, are not keen on going ahead of the handler.  The dogs gait should not change and therefore the handler has to fractionally  slow down.

When you get to the other corner, other side of the judge the handler will need to step infront of the dog, whilst turning in the corner and arrive at the other side of the dog orrginally on, again dog still going at same speed in a flowing circuit!  It's a task very difficult with running dogs but is manageable, I do it with the setters and one of my girls (dogs) is very well trainned and used to get handlers into the flow of it. (She is also fast and quite long!!!!)

A figure of 8 is a funny one.  I haven't come across it in years untill weekend before last, when at two seperate shows on sat and sun I was asked to do one!!!!  So it still happends but very rarely!

:) :)

do they still do figure of 8?

Yes - i was asked to do one a couple of weeks ago.
It was the 2nd time i had done it so was pleased when i was told i had done it right :D phew

oh right, yes have done that before (ok many moons ago ;-) ) but didn't know it had a name.

What about where they make two handlers do up & down & then round the ring, got the bit where both dogs on inside but the going round the ring bit I was rubbish at!

Oh I'm going to be a terrible mother at the ringside, think I shall have to be restrained or crated!  But if she wants to do it I'll let her, hopefully she'll get bored & I can continue to enjoy my days out in peace :-O

As a kid the only one on one time I got with my dad was when we went to shows (mother refused to go because Father was worse than the women at bitching ) they are some of my best memories sitting in the front of the car on a big pillow so I could see over the dash and my dads praise when I won or got placed in a big class, ok and the lectures I got for screwing up !!  My parents dont show anymore and my dad was so chuffed when I qualified my boy for the first time at crufts - he and my mum had to come along to watch :)

My showings the other way round, it's only only thing we do as a whole family!  Crampped into the back of the car with my brother, the show kit between us to stop us bickering, Fallen on us when going round bends and making us bicker...

even now both of us are classed as adults we still go to shows as a family, the 4 of us! 

My parents are still proud of us when we do well and where so proud at Crufts when I handled a dog to BOB and was in the group!  They also cried tears of joy with my brother winning his 2nd class at crufts in a row (handling)

As for bitching....My boyfriend, the non show person is the worst for taking to shows!