I collected my gold cocker puppy last Saturday and have had a hectic, tiring, but fun-filled week. His name is Morgan and he's a little cutie. I had spent the past 3 months excitedly telling everyone and counting down the weeks til he was born and then til we could take him home. The excitement must have rubbed off on the whole family as when we arrived they were all there bearing gifts. He now has a huge basket full of toys. He shouts (very loudly) from his crate at 5.30 every morning - roll on winter!:-)

Have you thought of asking one of these excited relatives for a dark cover for the crate?!:D
LynnT (at 4 weeks, and counting till collecting my bc pup)

A nice large towel works wonders for darkening the sides and most of the front of a crate :D :D :D :D And in the wintertime, it keeps the drafts off the occupant :D

Oh Shirl, you must be thrilled....my pup was (IS) very vocal, likes to hear her own voice I think....

Keep us updated of his progress..

Natasha

Is that a thing with cockers that they are naturally noisy and have to be the centre of attention at all times otherwise they sulk, yes of course i am talking about Buffy (the terrible ) or is it just mine that does that :D

Hi Metpol

I think its a cocker thing...the pup, if she is not centre of attention, she will do something to make sure she is...at the moment its chewing plugs...she's chewed through 3 leads this w/end and i've had to replace the plugs...she will electrocute (Sp?) her self one day..

Natasha

Why don't you tack the leads of the T.V. and video etc. onto the top of the skirting board with cable clips. We have done that and there is no danger that the puppy can chew them then. If the item you have plugged in is not there permanently, only plug it in when necessary.

Hi Debbie

That's a good idea...I was thinking about getting a big plastic tube to cover the leads in...the plugs are alway (unplugged) when not being used..and she just chews them anyway...we had another one this morning..:D

I've only just seen your message and just wanted to say, I know what you mean about the first week. I picked up my Buff Cocker pppy on Sunday and this week ahs been, as you say, hectice tiring but fun!!! Chester crys from his crate about the same time in the morning and I think I'll try the blanket thing. Also he crys when he's done a poo and wee on the paper in the front as he likes it cleared up as soon as!!!! Shame he doesn't worry about that when he's peeing on my carpet!!!
Good Luck
Hazel

P.S If you get any goodsa tips on cocker puppies let me knwo!! I'm still very novice at this dog thing but love it all the same!

Hi Hazel,

If it is a buff then I presume your pup is an American Cocker. Please ask me any questions you want about them. Are you in the Uk or elswhere?

Gwen

Chester is an English Cocker Gwen.

Fiona
x x x

Gwen - I thought the same too - I can only assume it's a gold baby.It could be a light gold/red hence Hazel referring to it as buff.

Hazel - buff is an American Cocker colour - not English. Is your baby a red/gold?

Pam n the boys

Pam - I think some of the books from the USA can confuse people, just being titled "Cocker Spaniels", and then talking about Buffs!

It is amazing how few people (outside of the dog world) realise they are 2 distinct breeds! I have just found a pup for a lady who has been looking for over 12 months for a "Blonde Cocker" because she met one on holiday in Canada.

However, as behaviour patterns between English and Americans don't vary so much when they are babes the original offer of help/advice still stands, Hazel, if you want it. (I have 8 six week old pups here at the moment, so imagine the potential chaos!)

Gwen - very true. When I was buying books for our first - as you do;) - my lad picked one up that was for American Cockers - still bought it cos he thought they were soo cute:D

Pam n the English boys - :D

PS Gwen - I bet your puppies are sooooo cute and irresistable - I'd love it if you could send me a piccy - privately - thanks

Hi Pam,

Sure, no problem, just finishing of a film tomorrow to get developed! I have a litter of blacks at the moment - Ambrose is the Daddy and Bianca the mum, is a "Dexter" daughter (if you remember Dexter!) 5 boys and 1 girl! I am sooooo (just for emphasis!!!) excited about 3 of the boys!! Then there are the 2 pug pups, 1 boy, 1 girl - so exciting, as we have been trying for over 2 years to acheive pugs, just 2 days younger than the 'Yankees".

Have you managed to order your doggy tent yet?

Gwen

Gwen - look forward to seeing the puppies - not got the tent just yet. Wrote to Marlin for a price - HUB were very expensive. I'm not desperate so will wait a bit. Was looking at some in the USA - just the same pricewise:(. You'll have to let me know how you go on with yours when it comes.

Pam n co

Chester is an english cocker, he is buff coloured which i can only assume has been bred in. he may officially come under gold as thats the english version but he's registered as buff and is far too light to be gold/red!! Thanks for the offers of help evryone!

Hi Hazel,

That is so interesting - Chester is an English Cocker and is going to be registered as Buff! Dont want to be controversial, but if his registration hasn't gone yet (and I think I saw another mail from you in another area asking for name suggestions for hi KC application) it might be worth asking your breeder if she could register him as "Gold" or "Golden" which is an english Cocker colour. He may look quite pale, but the colour "Buff" officially covers all shades from Silver to deep red in American Cockers, as does "Gold" cover palest gold to almost copper in English Cockers. It is a sort of official desigination rather than an actual description. Did your breeder describe him as buff? and if so you are sure he is an English rather than an American Cocker? I know one cocker spaniel who was 2 years old and the owners didn't realise that he was American not English until they took him to a new grooming parlour!

He is going to be registered this week. The breeder gave all the new owners a week to think of a name and then she's registering the whole litter at the same time. He was described as buff and I assume he will be registered as biuff. Going from what you say, does it matter if he's registered as buff and english?

Hi Hazel,

It is a little strange for an English Cocker breeder to describe a puppy as Buff (help me out here, Cocker people) Whilst the KC breed standard (The basic "template") for the breed, describes the colours allowable for Cockers as "Various", Buff is definetly not a term ever used in English Cockers, purely in Americans. And whilst a "Buff" American and a "Golden" English Cocker might be exactly the same colour standing side by side, a knowledgable (I am not saying your breeder is not knowledgeable - maybe he/she has another breed, and breeds Cockers as well, and is just learning about them?) you would never register an American as Golden or an English as Buff, its is one of those "just not done" things.

Several Breed clubs are lobbying the Kennel Club so that only officially designated colours for the breeds are used on registrations, as many less informed people put all sorts of fanciful colours down, which kind of "mucks up" the breed record supplement, (and deeply offends the purists!!!)

So, it doesnt stop your boy being English, but would just make his paperwork look a bit odd, and as it hasn't gone off to the KC yet, why not have an appropriate colour entered. (And you could always ask your breeder why he was described as buff in the first place?)

Gwen

I agree - buff is not usually used colour for an English. The difficulty is that there is not firm colour terms for English Cockers and you do see some strange ones popping up in the Breed record Supplements. While orange Roan is a common term, you also hear of Lemon but less often - in the BRS you see Apricot!!! and others. So the KC will probably accept a buff registration.

Personally - if it were me - and this is where it comes down to how you feel about your breeder and if you want your dog for show or pet - I wouldn't want a Cocker labelled as "buff". It would be gold/red. With the exception of black/black and tans - as far as I know, you are never 100% sure exactly how dark or light an English might be. What might look like a very light coloured puppy now may turn out to be quite a bit darker as he gets older. My blue boy has turned out very dark indeed - this was always likely looking at his pedigree - but others in his litter were lighter.

I wish they would come up with a definitive list of colours - it would make things easier.

Pam n the Blue and Orange boys

not a cocker but my Golden reriever bitch is down as Cream and she is quite dark gold - mixed colour litter and I wanted the name Phoebie and when Lynn sent in registrations with some litter cream and some gold they put the wrong colour on her papers - never tried to get it changed though ( don't think it matters in this case ??)
Sara :)

Hi Sarah, I don't think we should even start looking at Golden Retriever Gold/Creams, it always stirs up a hornets nest! (especially amontg the old timers)

I agree with Pam, purely from a 'correct form' point of view, it would be preferable to have an appropriate colour recorded. I cant think why a breeder would describe an English boy as buff, Hazel, because as I explained the term "Buff" does not only apply to a very pale dog (who would be a "Silver Buff" American) but goes right down to as red as an American can get (I had one almost as red as a ruby cavalier, she was still a "Buff").

How old is your baby boy now? The colours can 'develop' quite dramatically, right up until the puppy coat has gone and the adult hair is in, so dont rely on his staying as pale as he is now - that is one of the fascinating about cocker babes (both kinnds of them!) If you only want your boy as a pet, then I guess it does not matter what is on his paperwork, if at any time in the future you wanted to show him, and more especially breed from him people might be a little quizzical over his strange colour designation.

Gwen

In Wolfounds the most common colour is brindle. This can vary from a very light cream brindle,, through red brindle, right through from light to dark grey brindle and black brindle, yet most breeders just register the colour simply as brindle.

Unfortunately, there are some Cocker breeders who deliberately call a colour something fanciful & then describe it as "rare" :-( In my post to Hazel below, I mention the Manchester breeder who advertises "rare buffs" (definitely English Cockers not American Cockers) - she also has a stud dog which apparently produces all colours, including "rare buff" - the mind boggles!! There is nothing to stop breeders doing this at the moment as the KC will accept any colour at all for Cocker registrations (including apricot, champagne, brindle, you name it :-) ) The Breed Council have submitted a list of "standard" colours to the Kennel Club & this is currently awaiting approval. Assuming the list is approved, then only registrations using the standard colours will be accepted - might be in for a long wait though :-)

Jane

Oh dear, rather like the "rare" colours in mis-marked great danes! I had no idea this happened in Cockers too, they always seemed such nice, straight forward colours. Is this person using the "rareness" to inflate prices, or simple as a 'sales aid'?

Someone was advertisng a 'rare, pure white American cocker " a couple of years ago. They were asking about £200 over the normal show puppy price. Turned out to be a parti-colour with absolute minimal markings (just one or two ticks underneath) so was in fact a mis-mark!

Gwen

I'm not sure - she is charging less than the average price from a "good" breeder (but I don't know whether the pups are KC reg or not) so it's either pure ignorance or she's using the "rare" tag just as a sales aid. She's not a member of any breed club so is outside the jurisdiction of any Codes of Ethics (such as they are!)

Jane

Jane. the KC will continue to accept any colour at all for registration even though the standard includes a list of 'acceptable' colours. Nonsense, but that is the Kennel Club for you.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth

Cna't understand then why anyone would use anything other than the colours listed inthe standard! Now if the standard just said any colour you could understand novices making these fau pas!

Maybe some of these breeders have never read the standard, huh??????

Its funny, isn't it, the KC computer can throw out names that infringe on other people affixs, etc, but they cant write a little bit in the programme for each breed which would reject 'odd' colours. And they are not at all helpful about it - I had to query a Cavalier puppy a few years ago, who had not been able to make its mind up about being blenheim or Tri - it was a blenheim with 1 black ear. I rang the KC, all the breed clubs, no one seemed to have had it before, some were in favour of putting "tri" as it was 3 colours, just not in the proper places, some blenheim, no one could say - I think in the end we setlted on blenheim and black, which is not in the standard, but did describe this boy. (Although come to think of it my above proposed programme would have rejected this too!)

Could be ignorance, could be for rarity value (buy my rare blue with pink dots hound, you won't get one elsewhere) or it could be political. The brindle Basenji enthusiasts were registering their brindle Basenjis long before the colour was accepted into their standard, some even won top honours although it was not an acceptable colour. It has, of course, now become part of the standard.

Joan
take the rough with the smooth

Yes I know Joan - that's the point I was making :-) At the moment the Cocker Standard does not include a list of acceptable colours which is why the Breed Council have applied to the KC for this to be changed. Some breeds have already been successful in persuading the KC only to register puppies from a limited colour range as per the standard - hopefully this will also apply to Cockers in due course

Jane

Just noticed this discussion and agree with Gwen. Morgan is now 11 weeks old and although he is still quite light in colour, he has become slightly darker over the last 3 weeks. I would still describe him as gold rather than red but he has changed a bit. Still gorgeous! Just got photos which were taken the week we took him home and he has gotten soooo big too!:-)

Hi Hazel

I know you are in the UK as I remember you posting before when you were looking for a gold Cocker puppy :-) There is a breeder in the Manchester area claiming to breed "rare buff" English Cocker puppies - sadly there is no such thing. I'm sure you have a pale gold puppy - hope you have lots of fun with him :-) There are lots of Cocker people on this board so if you need any help, just shout!

Jane

Hi Jane,

Has anyone actually seen the parents of the "rare buff" cockers, it isnt that one parent may be American, and the othe English is it? This would certainly make them quite"rare", (of course, it would also make them cross breed too!)could explain the colour description, buff, and would probably clear him with advertising standards if anyone queried the matter!

Hazel, what area are you getting your pup from? Maybe your breeder has seen this add and is a bit confused?

Gwen

I did a little detective work on the stud dog this person has advertised (the one that produces the "rare buffs" - he is several generations "pet" breeding (ie no recognisable affix) but does go back to reasonably well-known English Cocker lines (blacks & goldens) in the third/fourth generations. This person does not have an affix herself & the bitches she breeds from also don't have affixes, so not so easy to check the breeding out. I would love to see a photo of a "buff" English Cocker too, just out of curiosity if nothing else :-)

Jane

You never know - they might catch on (LOL). Seriously, does anyone on the board know a dog/puppy from this person? It would be very interesting to see a "Buff". There does seem to be an awful lot of "dodgy" puppy places over in the North West (and some excellent ones too, of course). We just have 2 or 3 over here in the North East that are easily recognisable as puppy farm/dealer. Obviously, we also have our fair share of 'back-street breeders too". I know one guy who breed Cavaliers on an allotment - poor little poppetts never get to see the inside of a house!

Hope I haven't put my foot in it but having just read Hazel's other post about naming her pup, I think she may have bought her pup from the person I have been talking about - it's quite some coincidence if it's not the same breeder. No offence meant Hazel - I'm sure you have a charming pup, it's just he shouldn't be registered as a "buff"

Jane

Jane i have just had a look at your web page what lovely dogs you have and the coats on them are great whats your secret, Buffy always looks so scruffy even when she has been trimmed and brushed, although her coat still needs to grow and thicken up any suggestions, she came from a pet home who couldnt cope with her anymore so i took her on and the breeder doesnt live to far away so thats handy especially for the finishing touches to her coat when i need it, as i am still a novice at the coat trimming bit.

Thanks v much Diane :-) I don't think there's any real secret with Cocker coats - just a lot of hard work :-) Some Cockers are naturally blessed with good, easy to trim coats & some have more difficult coats which often look scruffy no matter how hard you try. Ours don't look perfect all the time - they have plenty of scruffy moments too :D I groom the show dogs daily so that no matts have chance to develop & am constantly stripping any excess hair from the top coat(say 10 mins a day) as if you leave it, it gets much thicker so harder to do. I think Buffy had a season not so long ago & often this results in patchy, sparse coats - the bane of anyone showing a bitch! I've heard good things about this Fit & Fertile powder (see previous threads) for growing good coats but haven't tried it yet - might be worth a try with Buffy

Jane

Hi Jane, Interesting to hear you groom the Cockers every day - just illustrates one more difference between the English & Americans. I haven't used Fit and Fertile yet here, but Mike used it on Arabella after she had the pups, and the results have been outstanding!
Gwen

Gwen

Again - this is an area where you find people differ in their grooming as in other breeds - I have had my head chewed a few times on here for suggesting that long haired dogs should be groomed daily:D. I, like Jane, do my boys every day - well almost - only miss the odd day if I'm out or somethiong like. The handstripping is done almost whenever they sit with me, they always leave a few hairs behind in a little pile. Sometimes you can see the look in their eye that says - Oh My God woman - leave us alone - :D lol.

If I dont groom mine very very regularly - they do get matt's which can be very difficult to tease out. Buddy is an orange has a different texture coat to Jasper, my blue boy. Buddy's coat matts very easily under his armpits and he hates having it treased out but his coat needs very little stripping. Jasper's coat is much easier to brush but harder when it comes to stripping as it does need taking out from all over him. Probably because he is such a very dark blue - totally black all on his back and head.

It's interesting, if I interpreted your post correctly, that you don't need to do American's every day - I'd have thought they needed brushing at least daily.

I have tried Restore and Moor Gold before - but saw no obvious results.

Pam n the boys

Holly gets brushed at least once a day. She's still a bit skittish so I try to brush her for 5mins at a time 4 or 5 times a day. That way all of her has been brushed by the end of the day.

I'm still waiting to be able to strip her :(

Fiona
x x x

Hi Gwen

I find, as Pam does, that if I leave the grooming for more than a day then I have matts to contend with, specially if it's been a wet day or if they have been out in the forest picking up assorted bits of vegetation :-) Do you not have to do this with the Yanks then? I wonder if it's to do with coat texture - some of ours that have coarser textured coats don't mat up so easily whereas the softer, finer coats can be a nightmare :-)

I'm definitely going to order some Fit and Fertile now - Arabella certainly looks in stunning condition :-)

Jane

Hi, Jane & Pam - If you combed out an American in full coat every day you would lose so much coat you probably couldnt go in the ring for weeks! The routine varies very much depending on colour (and texture of course) but a full bath and blow dry every 5 days is pretty much the norm for our gang in coat. Of course, everytime they go for a wet or muddy walk (and yes they do go to the beach or through muddy fields regularly, contrary to popular belief!) we have to bathe and dry too. We dont untangle or de-knot at all between baths - find it damages dry hair too much. With the partis it can sometime be essential to do the whole bath/dry thing every 3 days to keep the staining out, certainly on the run up to a show. Have just advised someone with one of our pups (actually now just over 12 months) that in order to take all the puppy fluff hair out of his side and tummy coat he should be combed through daily with a fine tooth comb.

Not on commission from Keith Shea, but we were considering offering Arrabella as his 'poster girl" (LOL - just kidding)

Well I'm sorry but offence taken! I came on this board to ask some simple questions as I'm new to all this. My cocker is a pet but I may show him. The way I see it is that if the kennel club registers a puppy in a certain colour then why get all controversial. Surely the health and well being is much more important. Thanks for all your comments but I do believe that when "slagging" a breeder off you should be in receipt of all the facts. Do you know of anyone that has had a puppy from this breeder you talk about that has had health or physical problems with the pup or sent the pup back for any reason? If not then surely this must say something? I realise you have to be careful but I believe I was when looking for a breeder and for a puppy. I didn't pay any more than I was quoted by other breeders so I don't feel I've been ripped off. I have a lovely puppy who has a great personality and temperament, I'm sure I'll have years of fun with him.
Feel free to reply with any more comments!
Hazel

Hi Hazel, Sorry if you were offended, but to put it in the simplest possible terms - English cocker Spaniels ARE NEVER termed Buff, that is a colour which is only used for American Cockers. This sort of thing is common in many breeds - and looking at a bunch of "pale gold" dogs of different breeds, they would be correctly termed for their own breed as Golden (Cocker) Buff (American Cocker) Yellow (Labrador) Gold (Retreiver) Apricot (Pug) - they might all look the same identical colour, but the correct terminology for each is not interchangeable. If you are possibly interested in showing, then getting used to the 'doggy' terminology is all part of the fun. I think, when this started, no one had any idea that your puppy might have come from the person Jane mentioned. I simply suggested that in case you were interested in showing (and even ultimately breeding) you had an opportunity to have your pup registered as his correct colour before the reg. form was sent. As long as you are happy with your pup, and know it is fit, healthy and well reared, then that is the most important thing. However, if your breeder has sold you your pup described as buff it means that they either are not at all knowledgeable about the breed, or are deliberatley trying to mislead in some way. As you will have read in some of the above posts, it is not unheard of for some people to wrongly describe dogs, in an effort to get more money or make them more interesting to potential buyers. Again, as explained above, because the KC will register a pup as almost any colour under the sun, it does not make it an acceptable description fo that particlular breed.

As no one here has anything at all to gain from all of this, and I am sure that I am far from alone in saying that I would much rather you stayed with the board so we can all become friends (I am new to this board too, although not to dogs as a whole). All the advise has been aimed at helping and informing. It is unfortunate that your breeder may have come in for some criticism befoe we knew it was your breeder, however, surely better to know that you may have been mislead a little when there is still time to fix it. Everyone here seems to have loads of knowledge and info. to share, I am sure you will gain lots by joing in and listening.

Hazel

I'm sorry if you have taken offence & no-one has said that you don't have a happy,healthy Cocker puppy - simply that "buff" is not & never has been a recognised Cocker colour (no matter what colour your breeder chooses to register him as) I have been contacted by your breeder where she clearly states that she only breeds pet quality puppies so I think it highly unlikely that your puppy will be good enough to show - if you want to show a puppy, then you should buy from a show breeder I'm afraid. Your breeder does not do any health screening of her Cockers ie eye-testing or hip-scoring (she is of course free to contradict me on this point but I can find no evidence of her screening her stock for hereditary problems) I'm sure if you have been reading this board for any length of time you will see constant reference to the need for breeders to screen their dogs for any known hereditary problems in the breed. Cockers as a breed have a number of hereditary problems as I'm sure you are aware if you have done your homework on the breed.

If you are happy with your puppy & your breeder, then that's great - no problems. However, please don't be under the illusion that you have a Cocker of a "rare" colour because you don't & I still question the experience & knowledge of any breeder who chooses to describe their puppies in this way. I am awaiting evidence from your breeder of the existence of "buff" as a distinct colour from red/gold & should I receive it, then I will of course eat humble pie.

Jane

PS As you have faith in your breeder, then you surely won't need this board to answer your questions anyway as she should be more than happy to give you all the advice on training you will need - that's what good breeders do :-)

Thank you Jane, Gwen and Pammy for all your comments. I should have said earlier that I didn't buy Chester for his "rare" colour as you put it, to be honest you could call him pink and I still would have got him. I have wanted a cocker for years and I've seen this colour before and have searched high and low for it. I was told it would be a gold and thats why I was asking for gold's a little while back. But the thing is, Chester is the colour I wanted, I think it's lovely and like I say, call it what you will, he's what I wanted. I appreciate what you're saying about the colour and the lack of show breeding in him but I did just mean that I would do some small dog shows for fun so I think I'll be ok with that.
Although he was advertised as buff the breeder has offered to register him as gold if I want. She has also offered me full support for his ongoing well being and has been extremly helpful. I like to come on here though too as you can pick up other tips and sometimes it's quicker than trying to get hold of the breeder. If I have any specific questions on my pup then I would go to her.
I think it's probably best to put this one to rest now and agree to differ on things. I in no way meant to open the huge can of worms that I have and I hope no one will snub me if I have a query in future because I do appreciate people trying to help.
Anyway, next subject!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hazel

Of course no one will snub you Hazel :-) We may not all agree all the time (wouldn't it be boring if we did!) but we all have the best interests of our breeds at heart & any comments made on the subject of your little Cocker's colour were made with the best of intentions. I am sure you will have lots of fun with your Cocker & I'm glad your breeder will provide you with ongoing help when needed, so many don't I'm afraid. Anyway, as you say, on to the next subject .........

Jane