hi, this seems like a really silly problem, but i think ive over socialised my pup! not sure if this is possible but anyway. as a young puppy i did everything right, took him everywhere with me, took him to 2 sets of puppy school, basic obedience, also ringcraft as im planning on showing him. he met friendly dogs at both these places. he was also well socilaised with my mums gsds, and my aunts spaniels, both live within minutes of me so handy. i also take him to work with me, as do around 20 other staff members. he gets walked daily with all variety of dogs, from cairn terriers to large labs and lurchers. the problem is, he loves other dogs too much and thinks they are all his friends, he doesnt seem to read canine body language very well, and assumes every dog likes him. he plays extremely rough with dogs and doesnt wait for an introduction, just charges straight in, jumps over them, runs about mad etc. this is fine with my families dogs and several of my friends who have large robust dogs, but hes doing it to all dogs, hes now knocked several small dogs and a bitch gsd over, and almost hurt them, all dogs belong to people i know who have been very understanding. hes 35 kg and 6 months. even when another dog tells him theyve had enough he continues to jump at them, sometimes pulls their tails to get attention. this is all done on friendly terms, he isnt aggressive in the slightest but i worry he will really hurt another dog. a few of my friends with smaller dogs have now made their excuses about not walking with us, and hes had a few bad encounters with strange dogs. ive got to the stage i call him back when i see another dog coming, as i fear he will either leap at the wrong dog and get a really sore face or will really hurt them.
i had hoped that by now he would have had a wee nip from a dog and learnt his lesson, but he hasnt taken the warning. i know that hes only a baby and i dont want to be harsh on him, but i dont know how to get him to play gentler.
sorry for long story but just wanted to hear from people that have perhaps been in a similar experience.

Oh gosh he needs to take a wee walk with my Cilla, she'd sort him out :-)

Cilla takes no messing from cheeky young upstarts and is terrific at putting them in their place with the minimum of fuss.
Can you find someone with a mature, sensible, super-confident, well trained dog? You don't want one to 'nip' him though, a confident dog has other ways to communicate their displeasure - far more effective.

I don't think it's due ot over-socialisation, more that he hasn't had a chance to meet the right sort of dogs.

I agree with Toolz, if you can find the right sort of dog. My oldest girl is extremely tolerant with the pups, but she will tell them off if she thinks they have gone too far. (she's onyl done it two or three times) and they all get on great with others, so I am lucky really.

he has been walked several times with dogs that you have described, he just doesnt listen or take a telling. its almost like he doesnt understand canine body language. a radiographer at work has a terrier x lurcher, quite small, and he dislikes pups, my boy goes up to him, the wee things has hackles up and teeth bared growling, and my pup bounds and leaps at him, the dog then grabs the side of his face and hangs on, my pup is screaming, they are quickly seperated and my boy runs away with tail between legs, and after i checked him to make sure he wasnt badly unjured ( he wasnt) i thought, well maybe this is good, maybe learnt a wee lesson? no, within seconds, he was back up and trying to play again. there were three other dogs around at the time, all willing to play, for some reason he ran back?
another girl at work has a large greyhound sized mongrel, who has growled and told him in no uncertain terms she doesnt like him being near her, he almost sees it as a challenge to get these dogs to play, and darts around jumping around them tail wagging!

Could it be that he reckons your (natural) concern for him after his tellings-off to be reassurance that he was right? Have you tried backing up the scolding by ignoring him for a while?

when hes playing with my mums dogs or friends with robust dogs i do ignore him and try let the dogs sort it out The time i expressed concern for him was only a few weeks ago, he had been doing it for months before that. hes been like this since i got him, and im glad hes friendly, having owned a dog before who hated all other dogs its a relief!
to be honest, when hes playing with other dogs he ignores me, his recall and training are 100% when its me and him, but put a dog into the equation and he forgets about me! its weird though, at training classes and ringcraft he seems to know not to play with the other dogs, unless they come in for a sniff and then he decides they must be up for it, but even when taking treats and distractions with me on a walk he prefers other dogs if they are around.
one time, he was playing with a young lab and when i walked in the other direction he went with the lab owner! talk about being offended, i eventually had to go get him after it became clear he wasnt in a hurry to come back! and its weird, hes a right mummys boy when its just us, follows me everywhere in the house.

i had a simlilar  problem as you with my younger bitch.
kept her as a pup with her mum, she was the same way
with her, wouldn't take telling and push the boundarys same as you
describe getting told off, running away, then forgeting and doing the
same thing again !!!
solved this by teaching her to 'leave it'  started with food etc.
and built up to every day things she now knows when i say leave it or
no more she calms down most of the time (rolleyes) but, she is manageable now.
hope this makes sense and helps you

suz1985
I must say....he does sound just my kind of dog. He may be naughty and thick-skinned but he seems to treat the world as his personal playground:-)
Look on the bright side, many poor dogs go through their life in a permanent state of fear, your chap goes through his with a great big grin.I know which I'd chose.
Training (you'll get some great tips here) and time is what's required... it's my answer to most things but I find it's true.

Would you be able to manage his introductions to other dogs, rather than leaving it up to another dog to chastise him?

By this I mean perhaps getting him to sit while the other dog sniffs him, or even just to stand still in a controlled way. If the other dog then makes some play gestures, let them play and if that gets too boisterous stop the play. If the other dog on first introduction doesn't wnat to play then move your dog away or entice him towards you with a treat or praise. No need to reprimand because he's not showing aggression. But you may be able to help him better assess the other dog's reactions to him.

If he gets badly told off, which is a possibility if he is just barging in the whole time, it could all end in tears at some point.

It might be an idea to do this on a long line so you have some control at all times. Perhaps you could get him to behave in a controlled way around other dogs and then play a really ecxiting game with him yourself. This way he doesn't see other dogs as the ultimate in good fun.

My dog told off a young (7month) Lab that bounded right into his face- he was on my knee at the time. The owner was upset and said that her dog was only being friendly. I replied that I understood that but that his behaviour would be seen as very rude by most adult dogs and this is why the telling off was severe (no contact just a big display).

You say that your dog is 6 months, in dog terms he'll soon be out of puppyhood, very soon he may get told off, but rather more aggressively than you would like. I think you've got to be the dog parent and show him how to beahve.

Hope this is helpful.

My male pup has been the same, he's 11 months old now and it seems as if it's finally sinkning in that he must pay attention to what the other dog wants ie. they don't all want to play rough & have a huge pup bouncing all over them.
I have an old male dog too, I was told by many (including a behaviourist) too not interviene with them playing as the old dog would teach the pup some manners. There was no chance of this, and after 4 months of leaving them to it the harder the old dog put across a 'no play' message, the harder the pup played, in the end I was sure that either the old dog would get squashed in play or the pup would get bitten, so I started to step in, the pup would be told 'nicely' (he knows this to mean be carefull) as soon as he started to wind up, if he never payed attention to me, he would be taken away from our old dog, this method sunk in quicker than the old dogs warnings, very soon the pup learnt that if he wanted toplay with our old dog, he had to be gentle about it. Now the pup is controlling himself in doggy play, he is able to pick up on the old dogs warnings when he's had enough.

Your pup will get there, it's great he loves other dogs, he just needs to learn the rules and if he isn't learning this from other dogs, you will have to teach him.

Mastifflover,
I agree. For reasons mentioned in another thread I think leaving it up to other dogs to teach/chastise pups is not always a great idea. If they are the same breed you may be in with a chance but between different breeds there is so much room for misunderstandings in terms of differing breed body language, size and general demeanour.

I really feel it's best if we teach the dog how we expect them to behave around other dogs. Now if my dog approaches another dog in the park that I'm not sure about I can say "be careful" or "no" and he'll check himself or turn away (well so far so good, there but for the grace etc..LOL). Ditto if it's a pup, I tell my dog to be careful and won't allow him to clomp all over a youngster. Yesterday he met a 9 week pup and actually lay down and rolled over on his back to play with the baby aaahh.

> For reasons mentioned in another thread I think leaving it up to other dogs to teach/chastise pups is not always a great idea. If they are the same breed you may be in with a chance but between different breeds there is so much room for misunderstandings in terms of differing breed body language, size and general demeanour.
>

I am convinced that leaving my dogs to sort it out between them actually encouraged my pup to play even rougher :( The old dog (lab cross) was giving signals showing that he did not want to play(althoug subtle, even I could see them) but the pup totally ignored them (he pays attention to them since I stepped in), it got to the point that my old dog growled and snapped at the pup, making contact with his face (no marks left, just a warning), as my heart sank you could see pups face light up as if he was thinking 'at last, he's gonna play properly with me' and dived at the old dog for a rougher game.

My old dog is no push-over, I thought he would have no problems teaching a puppy the boundries, but it came to be that the pup was no push over either, he just enjoyed rough-housing and took every telling off as play :(
With my intervention things are great, pup is still a bit pushy, he'll invite oldie to play with a few huge play-bows, weather the invitation is ignored or accepted pup will romp up to oldie to try to play, if oldie doesn't want to play, he'll turn his head and pup will romp off and find something else to play with :)

> Yesterday he met a 9 week pup and actually lay down and rolled over on his back to play with the baby aaahh.

how sweet :)

thanks for all replies.
toolz - i know what you mean, and i am happy i have such a friendly outgoing puppy, he really does think of the world as his playground, and everyone in it is his playmate in his eyes!
with regards to the leave command, he does know this, and will leave food, items off ground etc, and if on the lead, will listen reasonably well to it if a dog approaches, the problem is if he is already off lead he completely ignores it, and me to an extent. i dont want to have him onlead at all times, and like nothing more than seeing him happy playing with other dogs, but he is too rough for some.when playing with friends "robust dogs" after a few minutes of rough play, he generally will settle down, and run alongside them, it seems to be in first few minutes of play he is so excitable. i dont know how well i can keep his attention during these moments. with regards to obedience with him, he is a breed not traditionally know for it, and he actually does pretty well, he sits, stands, downs, rolls, paws, leaves, drops, stays in all positions, and has great recall, all until another dog appears! its so frustrating, and he comes back to me after playing. if i call on him during a 2 second break in play, he often will come straight back, but if hes in middle of play forget it!

Hi suz,

You have had some reallly good comments already. One of my dogs has lost her recall (she is severly noise phobic and didn't walk for a long time so lost what her recall was lol!) when distracted and is a huge rabbit hunter. She has a lovely recall if you catch her during a break - as I have read yours does.

Pesto my dog absolutely adores squeaky toys however rabbits still win over the toy. However squeaking the toy always makes her take notice of me which gives me the chance to get the command in. She recalls and gets her treat and if she wishes we have a tuggy game with the squeaky toy.

The squeaky toy always stays with me and is only used as an attention grabbing toy and a reward - never something she gets to run around with or else it becomes boring for her.

Not sure how toy focused yours is but thought that I would post any way in case it would help you.

All the best
Anna

I think Freelancer is right. You have to get control of this large pup now, before he terrifies another smaller puppy for life and he is getting out of control. Iit is not up to other dogs to do this, they will know his strength and get worried by him, my boy is elderley and having strokes, he is weak compared to the strength he once had, and my nightmare would be to meet a pup like yours that might take him off his feet. Im sure you understand this and thats why you are seeking help.

You have to say this is not acceptable behaviour. What I would suggest is, as he is working great in the classroom, find a training class that holds its classes in a field and start working and working him, in the field. Then continue this same work on a walk. Walks seems to equal one thing, this non ending powerful play, yet he behaves well in a working environment, so combine the two. Firstly I would find a training class in a field, I think they are great and too few about. If you cannot find one, work him yourself outside, every day, maybe with a friend from class, if not alone. He has to use that brain every day. Make it fun, but make him listen to you and work him, he is very bright. Then transfer that energy into walks, training all the time you are walking.

Now 'walks' can be all sorts. If your 6 month old puppy was being shown next week, he wouldnt be able to hurl around at other dogs, so why not transfer your outdoor training around fetes, companion dog shows, everywhere there are people and dogs that he is on lead, getting mentally stimulated and when he is free off lead and running keep doing recall, with loads of fun and walking to heel off lead too. Teach him to 'Drop' (Lay) or 'Sit, '  Stay' on command from a distance, that is excellent too, to protect other approaching dogs. He will need really firm fair and consitent handling, every day. It will be exhausting but the alternatives don't bear thinking about. And how do I know all this? My big friendly girl was exactly the same. She is now three and still as dammed friendly, which is great! But still I have to be one step ahead. You do with bright and very powerful dogs. Hope that all helps. 

golden lady - he has been shown several times now, and is very well behaved at shows, obviously is very friendly, but completely under control, and last 2 shows were outside and he was fine.
at work he gets walked with other dogs, but generally at home i walk with just me and him and do training with him. as i said before, he will do all of the basic obedience, and if not distracted will stop on command when i tell him, will sit stay, down stay and stand stay for up to a minute with me 20 foot away. the outside training class sounds good, but have never heard of any like that around where i stay, (central scotland)
i dont allow him to run up to other dogs on a walk, if i see another dog coming i do call him back before he sees it, usually is walking with nose to ground, and i then approach the other dog with him under control, my problem is more dogs he is already playing with, dogs he knows well from work and from my family and friends. i understand what you are saying about your older dog and i am worried he will hurt a dog and people will get the wrong idea of him. having spoke to several people with my breed, they do seem to agree that the males of the breed do play very rough but it is something they end up growing out of as they mature, obviously i dont want to leave it to chance. i have spoke to his breeder and am going to go through and see my pups mum, as she is apprently very good at letting young boisterous males know where they stand without being aggressive, my breeder has a 2 year old male that was the same as him and she put him in his place.
i wonder if walking less with other dogs at work would help, and just take him on one to one walks instead training?

I think he will always need training personally, training is always a very good thing to maintain control. I use treats, ball, SIT DOWN STAY (making it a game of course)  constantly, and I used a spray collar for when she goes deaf in her adolescant years. And I can see you are working hard to get it right,absolutely you are.

He may learn to respect THAT dog that puts him in his place but that will not help him when he meets another, more timid dog.

The only one that will control him then is you.

We have exactly the same dogs, they love life, big grin on the face, and they love every dog (and human)they meet. And when we own a power house of friendliness is blooming hard work to make sure they don't frighten, intimidate, injure another dog or frighten the hell out of a human ....it only takes someone thinking it was intent. And mine like yours, has not a bad bone in her great big grinning body. But only you and I know that.  GL x

We have exactly the same dogs, they love life, big grin on the face, and they love every dog (and human)they meet. And when we own a power house of friendliness is blooming hard work to make sure they don't frighten, intimidate, injure another dog or frighten the hell out of a human ....it only takes someone thinking it was intent. And mine like yours, has not a bad bone in her great big grinning body. But only you and I know that. 

thats him exactly! i do plan to use training constantly, my mum has 2 gsds who are 5 and 6 and about as trained as well as they can be, and she still takes them to training classes as they enjoy it and it helps maintain that.
it is my first time with this breed and im just not used to a dog who prefers dogs to people, the gsds i was raised with always prefered our company to that of dogs!
unfortunately he is not toy orientated in the slightest and i use food to train him as he is very greedy and works hard for them, but he puts other dogs above treats as well.
i will continue with his training and increase it as neccessary. i have a long line for him i used when i was teaching recall, so may go back to that. was also thinking about trying to train him to whistle as he may respond better to that than my voice when hes excited if he associates it with a yummy treat?

It may be a good idea to do an exercise with him that is highly rewarding for him but excludes other dogs. How about training him to find hidden treats? You can start in the garden, if you have one, if not you can do it in the house. Scent work really exhausts dogs, more so than a long walk. Once he has got the hang of it, you could start doing it in more secluded walking areas or your park, perhaps using a tracking lead.

If you did it before breakfast you could make him hunt out a goodly portion of his meal.

I did this with my dog and can now put him in a "sit wait", show him a treat, leave him in the sit inside my kitchen while I go out into the garden and hide the treat. I then return, let him sniff my fingers and say "find" and off he goes. It can take him up to 5 minutes because he hasn't the best nose. But he loves the game. I started by doing it on lead with him. Obviously you'll have to build up using very short distances at first. Lots of parise "good find" when he finds the treat/object.

It should help him focus more on you as the best thing since sliced bread.