Hello all I'm new but loving this forum.

I've been asked by another member to start this former post as a new discussion. It started off in the staffie aggression thread.

So here goes:

I suppose we ask a lot of dogs, especially in the city, where differences in body size, face shape, tail and ear length, all impact on the way dog's communicate with each other. A long muzzled, prick eared dog may not have the faintest idea what a snub faced breed is trying to say to it, unless they've had plenty of controlled and positive exposure to that breed. It's almost like cultural differences. Also dog's bred to kill, like terriers, will be far more reactive to any perceived insult than more biddable breeds like gun dogs.

I think size difference is one of the most problematic. I know dogs are not supposed to be aware of size but a huge, seven month old puppy that towers over a cocky adoloscent male of a smaller breed can easily cause offence, even though none is intended. It also causes problems between owners. Perhaps we all need to educate ourselves more about the quirks of different breeds.

As a city dog owner I feel I have to have eyes in the back of my head and have to monitor my dog's body language constantly in order to avoid trouble, which, fingers crossed, I have managed to do thus far. The only problem I have had in my very mildmannered boy, is when a young Boxer male jumped over his back in play. Mine was furious and put in a big macho, chest thumping display (he's a little terrier). No harm done but it was unexpected for me and just goes to show how much one has to learn about dog etiquette from the dog's point of view. Also some dogs are much bigger sticklers for the rules than others. Bottom line is owning a dog in the city, if you are responsible, is quite hard work as I think owners have to monitor and intervene a lot. I don't agree with the notion of letting the dogs sort it out between them precisely because of all the breed differences.

I live in a small town in the countryside, I think we have it a lot easier here than city dog-owners, as there are many different routes to walk and dogs don't end up concentrated in parks, infact the main park in town does not allow dogs.

>I know dogs are not supposed to be aware of size but a huge, seven month old puppy that towers over a cocky adoloscent male of a smaller breed can easily cause offence, even though none is intended.

My pup has been on the recieving end of snaps, snarls growls and lunges from adult dogs he's met at the vet, he does nothing to warrent agressive reactions (he's very calm & relaxed, does not rush up to dogs etc..), I strongly feel that it's his sheer size that causes these reactions from some dogs, all of which have completely suprised thier owners as they have always been very friendly to other dogs. I am sure that when a dog is faced with a puppy that is so big they need to look upwards at it, it must be un-nerving for the dog, unless they are used to seeing dogs that large. To my relief, my pup has never bothered with any sort of reaction to these outburts he's recieved, not even batted an eyelid :)

My neighbours Akita's must give off the wrong vibe to some dogs, his standard, relaxed expression is : ears pricked & forward, tail held above the body, chest forward and standing tall, all round he looks very alert and intense.

I live in a suburb of London  and have three Cavaliers.  I'm sure if he was a child at school he would be the one that is always bullied - for no real reason - all dogs seem to just pick up on the fact that he will do nothing and think wahay we can do what we like to this one..

I did have a Puli and when he entered the park it was like a message going round at an army camp that inspection was due - all dogs behaved around him, slowed down, calmed down - darent put a foot out of place.

 

I live in the country and I meet lots of different breeds of dogs out and about. My white bull terrier must give the most meanest of stares maybe its his eye contact that unsettles the other dog?  I always remember one day many years ago when out playing in a big park area my snoop met Kane a beautiful Doberman both were off lead and young boy's. They both went up to each other and stood stock still with side on looks at each other Snoop was looking even more scary and did look like he was going to attack unbelievably the dobe Kane physically shrank very slowly he made himself smaller being a huge leggy lad was pretty impressive snoop just stood there the whole time eye balling then it was over- no fuss not a growl or any contact at all, they both carried on but avoided it each other from then on. For some reason my lad can't stand springer spaniels maybe he's jealous of their lovely floppy ears ? :) Saying that he is best buddies with a black lab Jet and white boxer Rodney both male and castrated so I think any breed could get on if made to. 

We have a border and a cocker and they are so different and get on well.If they are playing the border will always give way to the cocker. Each morning I meet up with 1 X Sproker, 1X border (not ours), 1X cocker (mine) 1X Staffie (charlie!!) 1X golden cocker, 1X westie pupand now a 12 week old dalmation pup. Its our own crufts and they all chase around together with no agression, snapping anything. Only problem is it borders a horse field and often a fresh batch of pooh is so appealing to the cocker and sproker.. POOOOHHHHH.
We meet up most days sometimes only 3 or 4 dogs but i look forward to it all weathers. Our border walks 3.5 miles into work with OH then I do 3.5 miles with him and my cocker home.  happy days...
But all characters and all different, borders are attentive, spaniels go deaf when their noses are busy. Charlie carts around huge trees twice as big as himself and I swear he is always smiling lovely dog. Pups are all legs then flake out half way through.
And all us owners aged between 30 - 70 put the worlds to right you cannot be depressed with a dog and doggie friends.

Bottom line is owning a dog in the city, if you are responsible, is quite hard work as I think owners have to monitor and intervene a lot.

Yes, I think you are right there, too many breeds around having to share one park in city life, all bred for different reasons with quite different behaviour, and very often there are clashes between them and of course the major problem of many owners not having the time to properly socialise and train their dogs is causing a lot of problems too.

Since moving to a rural area, I have noticed that I mainly come across just gundog breeds, hounds and Collies there are other breeds here but in the minority so no major interaction problems.

As a child there were mainly labs and collies around, not much else really, today gosh we have so many different breeds.

Out walking my dog in the park this morning. He was offlead and charged by a young staffie male (9 months I found out) who, I think wanted a game. My dog must have given some subtle signal that he was not keen because by the time the young Staff got up to my dog its was fur up. I called my dog away and he came, but with Staff in pursuit. Staff owner attempted to call her dog away but no success. My dog turned around and started to chastise the Staff: growling and air snapping at him. The Staff did not back off but decided to take up the challenge and started to growl and posture back. At this point I managed to get both dogs by the collar and hold them until the other owner arrived.

Now I may be wrong but I think this is an example of breed difference and bad communication between the dogs. My dog is 20 months and did not appreciate the much younger dog being in his face and eventually told him so. Other breeds, especially at that age, might have backed off. But, the Staff was, well a staff, and they don't back down so readily from a perceived challenge, he was also a teenager, entire, and seemed unwilling to leave. Had I not intervened I have little doubt there would have been a fight, and two dogs with the seeds of dog aggression truly sown.

My dog doesn't normally react at that level and the only other time I've seen him furious was when a young Boxer male jumped over his back. He generally does a little hare like boxing movement at the other dog, if he feels annoyed.

I don't blame either dog. Had the other been the same breed or size as mine it would have been a level playing field and my dog's admonishment more effective. As it was, the Staff was much bigger and more powerful and he was not going to be told off by a little squirt. I do feel the size differences make for lots of problems and the natural pecking order goes all topsy turvy. Well, that's my interpretation anyhow.

BTW mastifflover, what you said about the resting pose of the Akita is interesting, prick ears and tail up is about as dominant as body language goes! No wonder other dogs get upset and poor Akita.

I think in a city area also the people are different each day. When the weather is fine you can meet maybe as many as 50 strangers with new to you dogs in a day, and a handful of 10 to 20 ones you know.  On a summer day you add to that another 30 small kids, 50 teenagers and an assorted mix of other age ranges, a few bikes, games of football or cricket, pichnickers, kids screaming, kids running, playing hide and seek in the woods, biking or eating picknicks or ice creams.

This is a lot of people so what has their day been like? Are they in good or bad moods? Do they like dogs or are they terrified of them? Are they as dogs or people alone or part of an expansive pack? Are they loking for peace or conflict?

So many people and so many dogs! You are right! It is hardly ever relaxing!

In the winter it is fine but in the summer there is no space to give the dogs any freedom, not even to play ball because there are dogs, kids etc in every direction and nowhere to throw the ball for the dogs to run.   Unless you drive out to the country, but even then the public areas are overcrowded in the summer.

i take my boy (6 monthold ridgeback) to work as do most of the other nurses, and at any given time during our lunch there is him, a mental medium sized mongrel, a large lurcher, a cairn, 2 black labs, a trailhound, a beardie, a gsd and 2 golden labs. they dogs all get on fantastic, and we walk them in small groups depending who gets lunch when. my work is set on a large estate and is used by other dog walkers as well. my dog has yet to meet a dog he doesnt like, thinks everythings his playmate, has presented a few problems so far with strange dogs! funnily enough, a friends vizsla puppy hated my boy from the second he saw him, and nothins changed, my boy wont take a telling yet, been told off a few times by adult dogs and each time bounds back for more, i need to watch he doesnt get a sore face one day!

I have two Bulldogs on walks we often get dogs growling at my two Bulldogs, followed by owners quickly appologising saying that there dogs dont normally react this way.
A lot of dogs are not sure about Bulldogs but my two are so layed back it dosn't normally cause a problem.
But after these same dogs have meet my two a few times the other dogs  normally react in a friendly way.

Moj1966,

I think you provide a great example of what I'm talking about. Obviously we cannot know for sure but it perhaps the smaller folded ears, the snub face and (if yours are docked) the lack of tail, makes the Bull dog appear submissive to other dogs, but then its calm intractable stare and solid stance give a different story. Plus Bulldogs can make some interesting noises (well, the one's I've met). So maybe other dogs are confused and don't know how to take them, until they have a chance to get used to them?

The best analogy I can give is that -no offence intended- people from other certain other countries when talking to each other can sound and appear aggressive to us, they talk very loudly, very quickly and gesticulate a lot. Infact it's all totally friendly, it's just their form of communication is slightly different from ours, but that difference can lead to misinterpretations.

My dog jumped out of his skin the first time he met a Bulldog- adult male, lovely chap. The noises the older boy made really disturbed him. But we walked around the park together and I fussed the Bulldog and now they get on really well.

Please dont flame me, but I am gonna talk about problems related to my dog, so topics in here, may upset a few?  I cant do anything to change the way my dog looks.

I think Cher gets into more fights, than Casie does.  Cher, always looks dominant, with ears up, tail up - sticking straight to the sky - never goes down, straight legs.  (which is how the breed is supposed to look)  Then Casie she holds her tail lower, her ears are still up, but walks with her head down when on loose leash.

When my friend takes her dog out, which is still a min pin, still has a docked tail, but she doesnt have ears cropped, so she has a softer face.  Her pin, is dominant as well, but doesnt get into the same amount of scuffles. 

And its not about Cher being aggressive, cos normally in situations, the other dog starts it.  The way the other dog approaches is very dominant as well.  I just have noticed, that the dogs with cropped ears, have a harder time, just mingling with other dogs, than those who dont.  Maybe, Chers first litter, I wont crop. 

But when pins get together, they play fine!  They understand what the other one wants, etc.  Hardly any scuffles.

The only breed Cher has an issue with, which is a bit odd, cos they look the same, apart from size, is the Dobe.  But I think she learned, that if she barks at them they go away.  She would be in her kennel, and one of my aunts dogs would pass the kennel, she would bark.  Then the dobe would run off outside to go into the pen.  When the dobe comes back in, Cher would bark, and then the dobe would go to its kennel. Cher not realizing, that they ran outside, to go to the washroom, and ran in the kennel to get their supper.  Not because it had anything to do with her barking.  Now she sees a doberman, and barks at it. 

Joy, never got into scuffles, and other dogs still knew when she wanted to play, and when she didnt.  She had long floppy ears, and a docked tail carried low - and I must admit not the best groom job on the tail as the hair was so long, it sometimes looked like she had a full tail. 

I do believe, that there is some corrilation between the appearance of different breeds.  Cher with her erect ears, docked high tail, and straight legs, gets herself into a lot of trouble with other dogs.  Joy on the other hand, never did.  Then there is the min pin, without cropped ears, and it doesnt seem to have dogs starting with her. 

Hi Crespin,

Don't know why you would be worried about being flamed, everything you say seems perfectly reasonable and sound.

What's interesting is that you've noticed how other dogs treat each of yours differently and that there appears to be some relationship with the way your dogs differ in ear carriage and tail set.

I think the most interesting observation is that your friend's Min Pin, who has uncropped ears, is, you say, as dominant as Cher but gets into fewer scuffles. It's not scientific to draw conclusions from one small instance like this but it does provide food for thought.

freelanceruk, I think crespin is referring to the cropped ears rather than her observations.  Possibly not wanting to start a debate about the ethics of cropping ears in Canada?

freelanceruk, I think crespin is referring to the cropped ears rather than her observations.  Possibly not wanting to start a debate about the ethics of cropping ears in Canada?

Thats exactly right, as I do know cropping isnt allowed or accepted practice in the UK, but it was very interesting to see, that my dog, who is cropped, compared to even another one of her breed that isnt cropped.  Both have high erect ears, just it is interesting how by taking off part of the ear may affect dog communication.

Yeah my two make some weird noise's. For Bulldogs they are very fit but sound like a herd then just two.I have a staffie x rescue dog as well and she gets a different reception.

Lucily my lot are very friendly and  just to lazy  to be bothered by other dogs reactions.