Advert in our local paper:
rare kc reg blue and tan chihuahua bitch puppy.  no breeding endorsements and from free whelping lines.  Breeder states, may have a stud to use on her when she becomes of age!!  Price, a staggering £1950!!!
I'm horrified!  Not only do they want an extortionate price, they want to breed dilutes!

Seems some people consider Chihuahuas to be nothing more than wallets on legs these days........

Looks like it doesn't it.  This "person" is also breeding "Munchkin" cats and charging a fortune for them aswell!!

Oh now there's a breed I DON'T want to ever see recognised.......... :( Awful.

Mmmm.  To deliberately breed a cat with such short legs is a bit sick.

If that is the same man I am thinking of, he was in our local paper the other week stating that he was the first person to import these cats and breed them and was selling them for £400 and had a litter and a few more on the way.  I thought the cats looked horrible...

what is this Munchkin cat? I've never heard of that name... please don't tell me that people are deliberately breeding deformed cats and people are buying them for £400?  :(

they are like the basset hound of the cat world!  Another rare/cute 'breed' to appear in the classifieds.  there are some films of them on you tube showing their wee stumpy legs - it's a case of nice face, shame about the legs!

>what is this Munchkin cat?

Munchkin cat

Oh my that just looks wrong is the picture been altered ?
I just called my son over to see the picture and he goes...whats that a sausage cat!
It wouldn't have a hope of being like a normal moggie like my 2.. you couldn't let something like that outside ? Poor thing would have trouble moving to anywhere with them front legs !!
can't be legal to breed that in this country? wouldn't some sort of animal ethic's board ban that sort of thing.. I know in the America they don't give a pop about any living creature. :( 

The GCCF have always said they will not recognise them. The main registering body in the US won't either, but there are some that will register pretty much anything.....Seems like they can't be getting very popular here at least, if all they ask is £400 the must have a hard time shifting them or surely they'd be charging more!!

Oh poor cats, that's just sick. What is the matter with people? it seems any old novelty soon becomes a craze.

Bit of a double standard though if achondorplasia is acceptable in dog breeds????  We have lost of breeds with this trait, from short legged terriers, dachshunds, bassets etc.

Same one Cheekychow.  Yes, they are horrible looking!

They were bred for a purpose "originally" i.e. badger hunting and ratting.  These poor animals just seem deformed to me. JMO.

Still the same deformity though.  Am certainly not for them being bred.

Could just as easily say there is a purpose to the short legs on the cat, not being able to jump out the garden, or onto worktops. 

Personally I don't think either is right, but that would upset a lot of people with achodroplastic breeds. 

There is no good reason for any breed to be Bracecephalic, yet we have them, and the trait is in Cat breed too, but less obvious as Cats have shorter muzzles than canines.

Well I might have to duck, but I think the modern dachshunds are close to being deformed too - if you look at the pictures of them from 50 or 100 years ago they were short legged, but not so exaggerated as they are now. I don't much like the over exaggerated bracycephalic breeds like Pekes or bulldogs (or Persians!) either, I'm pleased that the breed clubs have been trying to curb it long before the KC stuck its nose in! Of course people probably feel the same about my round eyed long eared breed - we all have our favourites!

Those poor cats! Is is a form of dwarfism? It saddens and infuriates me that people would deliberately breed or want a deformed animal and see it as something good or desirable. It's just typical of people seeing animals as status symbols rather than companions.

I recently saw an ad for two Samoyeds, I forget exactly, but something like a 2 year old bitch and a 4 year old dog. It stated that the bitch was due in season, so the 'pair' could be bred from. It also stated the KC papers wer eendorsed, but that didn't matter as you could register with dog lovers. Those poor, poor dogs, and the poor person who bred them probably felt they were offering some protection by endorsing the papers. It makes me so cross!

Yeah, true.  I'm not a great fan of some of the dog breeds either.  Ones that have to have a cecarian birth for example.  I like a dog to be a dog, but people have very different tastes, I suppose that's how all these different breeds came about, otherwise we'd all have wolf crosses!

> Those poor cats! Is is a form of dwarfism? It saddens and infuriates me that people would deliberately breed or want a deformed animal and see it as something good or desirable. It's just typical of people seeing animals as status symbols rather than companions

It is achodroplastic dwarfism that shorten the limbs.

It is the same form most often seen in people (and short legged breeds of dogs) where the torso and head are normal size but arms and legs short.

It doesn't affect the body systems and health in the way that Pituitary dwarfism does (the kind seen in GSD, Mals etc) which often leads to a shortened compromised lifespan. 

I cannot see it as being any worse than deliberately breeding dogs with this trait, especially if the cat will be an indoor animal.  It may actually be an advantage as a Pet as such a cat could have far more freedom in an ordinary well fenced garden as it won't be able to climb out.

I agree in what you say about the double standards of many breeds of dog having extremes in shape and form. I suppose as they have been around for 100 years or more we are used to seeing it. Saying that looking at old photos of bulldogs then to now, I would so own an old type, but not the new extreme version we get now with no hips and massive heads that can't breath properly. :(
Going back to the sausage cats - Most probably the smallness of them is the reason that they have taken off so well in Australia as there having trouble with cats killing the wildlife over there. So as the cat isn't as nibble as a normal cats would not beable to hunt?

Well, I'm probably going to be shot down for this one but, I actually think Munchkins and particulary the Napoleons are really sweet. I can see why people would be concerned about them but, as far as I know they have been proven to be as healthy as any other cat. It is a natural mutation and no different really to breeding from a Sphnyx, Manx or an Ultra Persian.

All mutations are "natural"... The question is whether or not they are desirable.

Well this one is no more undesirable than the one in dogs.  If we are to frown on this then we ought to seriously be looking at phasing out all achondroplastic dog breeds (dachsi, short legged jack Russel etc breed don't shoot).

To be honest from a health perspective it can be argued that the Brachycephalic (shortened muzzle) trait in dog and cat breeds is worse.

That is the ugliest cat that I have ever seen. Just how far will breeders go just to produce something different that they can charge a fortune for? They should be done for animal cruelty, cats should have naturally long legs that are functional and elegant.

I have a Pekingese that we rescued 4 yrs ago and I must agree that these poor little dogs are deformed by their little legs. He can't walk very far without having to lie down for a while and he also gets out of breath due to his nose being so far back into his head. The KC should be encouraging breeders to improve these major problems in these dogs. I have seen many Pekes being pushed around in baby's buggies just to get them out for a while. I have even seen 1 woman carry hers in a baby harness!

"I recently saw an ad for two Samoyeds, I forget exactly, but something like a 2 year old bitch and a 4 year old dog. It stated that the bitch was due in season, so the 'pair' could be bred from. It also stated the KC papers wer eendorsed, but that didn't matter as you could register with dog lovers. Those poor, poor dogs, and the poor person who bred them probably felt they were offering some protection by endorsing the papers. It makes me so cross!"

That is exactly why if i sell anything not to be bred from it goes without any papers at all and one a contract.
zoe x

Zoe, do you think that selling without papers at all and on a contract makes your dogs any less likely to be exploited than the Samoyeds that you mention? Obviously, you are doing all that it is within your power to do, so this is not a dig in any way ... but progeny from your dogs can just as easily be registered with an alternative registry whether they have endorsed papers or no papers at all. The information on these registries does not have to come from the dog's original papers, it can be made up by sticking pins in a newspaper to pick names for the 'pedigrees'.

Think most of us are also well aware that the validity of contracts could come under question. Unfortunately these days, I think it comes down to vetting, vetting, vetting, and making every effort to maintain a good relationship with your puppy owners - both in the hope that they will respect your advice, and that should circumstances change and the dog need to be re-homed, you will get to have a say in the next home.

Worrying times!

M.

How I agree with your comments,,again its all down to the breed standard things are changing ,,sometimes too late .I have seen pictures off the daxi when they were used as working dogs,and they look nothing like the dogs we see today,bred to be long bodied  on little short legs,and your right in saying they do look deformed.i am a daxi owner not buy choice,as I have always had collies and gsds,but my daughter wanted one as she had fallen in love with one whilst in S Africa.she bought one ,as they do,when she left home she took Tilly with her , but Tilly had to come back as she missed her gsd friend so much she had to come back and live with me.She has been with me now 4 of her 5 years and she is so faithful and loving I have to say I am smitten with Daxis.even though she has just cost me £4000,for a back operation,but once again its all down to the standard that puts the strain on the back,we are left to worry and find the dosh to keep them with us for as long as we can regards Gwen (Dachmad)

Sorry to point this out but if a endorsed dog you sell is then sold on, the KC may well lift the endorsement as the second owner won't have signed to say that they understand the dog is endorsed.
Angela

Sorry to point this out but if a endorsed dog you sell is then sold on, the KC may well lift the endorsement as the second owner won't have signed to say that they understand the dog is endorse

Thats an easy way to remove an endorsment then! You could sell to your ..say...best mate, or at least change ownership, she could then say she didnt know about the restriction, get it removed, transfer to another friend, no endorsement on papers then, and then change back to you endorsement free! What an easy way round it...unless someone knows different?

Seems to me the only way to ensure the bitches or dogs are not bred from is to neuter them, which of course is not advisable in one so young.

In an attempt to address this, the KC regulations now state:

(4)   Regulation B12b 1), 2) and 3) only apply where the registered owner who originally placed an endorsement on a dogs record, transfers the dog to a new ownership. If subsequent transfers take place, the endorsement becomes a matter between the parties involved. In such cases the registered owner placing the endorsement shall not be responsible if notification of the endorsement is not given to any new owner, and may exercise his right to decide whether the endorsement be maintained ...

M.