Let me set the picture for you.
Beautiful sunny day , lovely outdoor venue, really nice people etc etc.
Before the judging even started we walked up to the tea place to get a drink ( early start and all that ) and there was a couple chatting ,look said the lady pointing towards this chap and his dog , well the BIS is here we might as well go home.
And is was was true this dog won BIS .
Just to ask all you long time people in showing, do you ever see people and think that there is no point being there as the face will win?
I had a lovely day myself winning BP in breed.
But i think that i will stick to little shows like exemption!! i enjoy the day rather than all the politics!!

Sam

It is not always that way. In our breed there is a dog who wins everything and we used to say that he'll win, but lately he hasn't been winning everything. You do get some face judges, but hopefully are the minority.

Sam

This is a universal experience in all walks of competion not just dogs believe me. Actually I've learned in dogs as in parrots we all walk in there take a look thru the catalogue etc and at least one person is heard emitting those very words lol.

I think it would be a shame if you enjoy the day out and did so well not to carry on showing as they say 'every dog has his/her day' if you don't take it too seriously and enjoy the company of some good friends etc keep going.

Politic's only becomes a problem if you let it, when you win you will always know that it was on the dogs merit and the way you showed on the day, not because you know the judge well enough to have a cuppa etc with.

Perhaps this dog won because he WAS the best there on the day. Just a thought.....

Lisa
xx

Now there's a thought! :)
In my breed (numerically small) there was a dog a few years ago who
won the ticket almost every time he came out - I was probably there on 90% of those occasions and can honestly say there was never a time I felt it was not deserved. He was simply an excellent dog. But he was owned by a "name" in the breed and comments like this were regularly made
- in spite of the fact that anyone actually looking at the *dog* objectively could see he was the best there!

Now I am not saying face judging doesn't happen of course - but just sometimes dogs win repeatedly because they are bloody good dogs - no matter who owns them!!

Heres a case in question. A few years ago, a very well known judge (now dead) looked at the Open Male class of Irish Wolfhounds standing before him, and asked the competitors in the ring..."Which of these dogs is ??????????? " Hmmmmmmmmmm. The dog in question was top Irish Wolfhound at the time.

Was the judge killed there and then, can't think of many exhibitors who would put up with that or many judges who would be that stupid. Jackie

Hi Jackie, no, everyone just sort of looked at each other and carried on in true British tradition. Bet you cant guess who got the ticket and BOB? :)

If you want to know which Judge it was, Ill can e mail it to you :)

Yes I'd like to know and were they senile at the time. Jackie

There are certainly plenty of duff judges about who don't seem to know even the basics of construction let alone breed type. I guess they would be pretty stumped if they didn't recognise anyone! :)
I often think an interesting experiment would be to mix up all the handlers and dogs and see what happened!

Inept judging is probably a lot more common than bent judging!
I do still think that there are many occasions where judges are accused of being dishonest and they are not. I have been so accused myself when I gave BIS at a club show to a bitch who happened to be the mother of one of mine. A lot of muttering about it. In fact, knowing that would happen, I tried very hard to find something to beat her but couldn't - in my view she was the best there by a long way and it would have been dishonest NOT to put her up.... so what was I to do??!

Selladore as long as you can justify your choice then you did the right thing .
I think in your shoes i would do same . Mari

Oh yes - a long and detailed critique followed that one! :))

When you judge your own breed you can't help knowing most of the handlers and if it comes to that most of the exhibits too. If you have been judging for some time and are consistent then a lot of people would be able to take a good stab a what you will award the top prizes too, it will only change if a dog is off form. IMO there are a few dishonist judges and a lot of inadiquate ones, but the vast majority of them do their best. I have been under judges who have call my dog out by a incorrect breed name and I have been beaten by a Sloughi called out by a very well know hound judge as a greyhound. No I don't mind being beaten but not by a greyhound that looks like a Sloughi. Jackie

Mmm - know what you mean. One reason I don't bother with variety classes in general is the number of times you hear things like "Sorry - your Pyrenean is a bit small for me" ... which wouldn't bother me except that I show Maremmas!

Ooops!!! :D

Fiona
x x x

I Know what you mean by calling dogs by the wrong name , in an avnsc working class for the pups i was asked why i was in the ring with a flatcoat , the steward very nicely told the judge that he was a 7 month old newfy., ok so he was leggy and black easy mistake to make ( i think not ) !!!

Sam

It's not that difficult is it, if in doubt keep your mouth shut. When you consider that the judge is told what breeds they have in AV classes, well I always have but then I ask, they have not done their home work have they. I like to have at least a week to check up on the standards. Jackie

What annoys me is when a dog with a known fault gets placed above a dog without faults :-( The fault was so obvious that the judge was overheard commenting on it to the handler. The dog with the lesser place may not be preferred by the judge but at least it doesn't have any bad faults. I find that very confusing

Never seen a dog yet without a fault. Jackie

Agree with you Jackie no dog is perfect.......well except mine in my eyes LOL. However the dog I'm referring to has what is considered to be a very bad fault and was still placed above a dog that doesn't have what would be considered to be a bad fault. I'm not saying the dog that was beaten is perfect because that wouldn't be true IMO but I did wonder how this can happen. I could understand if it was an inexperienced judge who had perhaps missed the fault but that wasn't the case and so I still don't understand it all

Have to ask the judge then Clare, you have the right and they should be able to answer, perhaps the critique will hold the answer. Jackie

I was showing under a well known Toy Group all rounder earlier this year when someone said to me that the judge makes a point of never giving the highest awards to anyone who attends one of her clubs so that she isn't accused of favouritism. To me that is just as bad as giving the award to someone they know because they know them, in neither case are they honestly judging the dog. You should have the courage to do exactly what you think is right regardless of who is at the other end of the lead.

Joan
Take the rough with the smooth